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bump/crud/ice video Ma

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I skied alittle bit of everything right here. Mostly bumps with ice spot in between no uniformity at all in the bumps and some really soft snow on the sides and tops.

what do you guys think?

slow mo than real speed

BTW vimeo rocks
post #2 of 17

Cool vid. Good demonstration of skills in the bumps. Great upper-lower body separation, pole use and movement from turn to turn.

There are 2 things that I would like to comment on. First, it looks like your outside ski gets away from you at times (at the apex) evident from the legs separating. This is caused by the pivot point of the skis being at the tip of the ski and the tails are being displaced to the side and edges are engaged late. You have a nice retraction at the transition, so from there, keep the skis under you as they flatten, so your pivot point is more under the foot allowing for a earlier edge engagement and a rounder turn shape.

The second element I see has nothing to do with technique, but more with tactics. The line you are skiing is the slide line. Work on your timing so you turn sooner. That keeps you out of the slide line and puts your turns more across the sides of the bumps (where all the snow is). Try starting the turn where you are now ending the turn. Round turns where the apex is on each side of the bumps and your skis will cross the slide line at 90 deg. This is still zipper skiing, but way more fun.

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
thanks alot ron. My outside skis was really getting away from me. I really couldnt get an edge on that day. I succeed some of the time but it pretty freaking tough for me on true ice.

the springs bumps are slide line or no line, I am surethe springs regular will agree with me on this. They are troughs connect by trough more so than bumps.
post #4 of 17


Bushwacker, I am not qualified to MA with you. But where are you, wish we had that much snow. 2 degrees at my house today and 12 below on top of Lookout Pass . Ugh I keep telling myself it is early.
post #5 of 17
I think that in general, you see both tails being displaced in this video. The early turn where the outside ski separates just highlights it. You want any of the pivoting to be centered under your foot. Tails coming in as much as tails go out. I like that your inside half looks stronger in this video than in some of the video I've seen of your medium turns in crud. In those, I saw your inside hand really low and some scissoring of the skis. You should take some of this to those turns.
post #6 of 17
BushwackerinPA this is pretty athletic skiing. This slope appears to be chopped up with unevenly dispersed moguls and snow piles.

What I see here is that the tail displacement is a symptom and the real issue here is pole use and timing that is ahead of the neutral position. I would bet that if you removed your poles in that skiing situation your skiing would have felt drastically different, good or bad.

I see the pole plant happening before you ever hit neutral between the turns. In addition you often let the pole drag your arms back causing some rotation. The combination between the pole plant being too early and letting the pole drag you hands back eliminates a good neutral and sets up the chain reactions for everything else in your turns.

Delaying that pole plant until you hit a good neutral sets you up for a good round turn entry and a smooth turn. In essense, What I see that you are doing is rushing things with the timing you are employing.
post #7 of 17
That's nice strong skiing Bwpa. Looks like you were letting them run and having fun. Very athletic, good balance, and good upper and lower body separation laterally showing good angulation. It was primarily a demonstration of push the feet away from the body, slide, and slam though. I would like to have seen you utilize more “steering” of the feet and legs which would get you a rounder turn shape, which would show up as separation of the upper and lower body with femur rotation. Letting the skis move away from you as you tip and steer them onto edge, and continue to steer them through the turn. This will help eliminate the push of the feet away from body and force you to keep the pivot point more centered on the ski. Tactically this should allow you to keep your skis away from the ice patches longer and in the soft snow longer. This will give you the ability to manage the pressure higher in the turn, turning the slide in the turn to a skidded turn and greatly reduce the slam at the end of the slide. Tactically skiing the terrain instead of letting the terrain ski you. Giving you more options with regard to turn shape, size, and where you can turn.

I didn't see any major issues with pole timing so much as the pole being used as a crutch to maintain balance and to help manage the big pressure from the slam. I know this routine all too well myself. So in the direction of pole usage, try a longer duration more deliberate swing, but at the same time try keeping your arms and hands very “soft” and “supple” throughout the swing and touch. Soft enough that you won't find any real support from them just directional input and timing cues. Adding more deliberate duration to your swing should help in adding duration to your steering and pressure movements.

Pierre's advice of skiing this terrain without poles would also be good task as well. Off groom black terrain without poles is one of our level III tasks. All in all though good strong skiing.
post #8 of 17
Good comments.

Another thing I feel is that you are too crunched up in a flexed stance during the sequence. Stand taller. DO NOT ski like a hunting cat in the jungle. Stand tall, flex for the bumps, but as you go down the backsides of the bumps into the troughs, extend more to be standing tall again.

I like to think about bump skiing mentally more like I'm attempting to find the troughs to stand tall in, as opposed to finding the bumps to flex over.

I have an inkling that you may need to keep your eyes focused at least one bump (er, cough...excuse me...trough) further down the hill then you were in that video, just a hunch. I agree with Ric, the mountain was skiing you instead of the other way around, which often happens if your eyes are focused on the bump immediately in front of you.
post #9 of 17
Good job attacking the bumps... but it looks like you are trying to use one tactic where you need many.

1)Try a rounder turn creating more edge at the top of the arc (like you would on a groomer) when the bumps are spaced apart like a lot of them are here. Most of these bumps look a bit small and spread out for the traditional "zipper"... head straght for the bump and make it explode tactic. In this kind of terrain you need to adjust your turn shape constantly.

2)Work on using your full range of movement to stay balanced. Eg. extend knees bringing hips forward between bumps. Also fine tune balance movements with your ankle joint... push your tips down the backsides of the bumps.

3)Work on timing... not just the pole plant, but of the flexion in your legs. Combined with the rounder turn, if you resist just a milli-second longer the bumps will put more bend in your skis and deflect your COM... which might make for some even more exciting and dynamic skiing.

Sorry thats too much I will stop babeling now.
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
little update.

disclaimer - this is on zipperline made by the Holiday valley Jr bump team. this was literally zipper it or dont ski. I still tried to round out around the bumps and though the bumps but this was within the confines of the 'line'
post #11 of 17
way to hang in there.

Your pole plants are a little late and you're letting the pole push your hands/arms and shoulder back.

Try to set the pole plant on the downhill side of the bump and don't necessarily plant it, but "lever" it in.

Also notice that what is happening is that you're planting the pole on the top of the bump and then as you ski past the bump that shoulder is being pushed back. That is not helping your fore-aft bal to say the least but it also makes the next pole plant that much harder which is part of why they are late.

hold your arms forward, slight bend. you want to plant the pole with your arm bent, but forward. As you ski down, push your hand forward, straightening your arm somewhat. This drive forward of your hand has to happen in such a way that its smooth and that the planted pole can't pin your entire shoulder back behind the bump. In order to push your hand forward smoothly you will need to make sure the pole plant is on the downhill side of the bump.

Look at least one bump further ahead then you are right now and get those pole plants further down the backside of the bump and make sure to drive your hands forward with each one. Having the plants be a little bit out to each side will also help to smooth it out and reduce how much it pins your shoulder.
post #12 of 17
would you mind uploading the vid you shot of me?
post #13 of 17
This looks good, Nice quick feet... again, I would try a bit of a rounder line... (perhaps this could be interpreted as a straighter line). I don't mean ski outside the zipper, I just mean less like a windshield wiper. Because you are pivoting a lot very quickly at the start of the turn... your skis are sideways when they hit the bump. If you are headed into that bump a little straighter, your skis can help absorb some of the shock and you won't get thrown off balance so easily. You can still control your speed with a good flexion on the bump and a bit more edging throughout the turn.

This is where you can make those bumps explode!
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
so those people who have skied 7springs style 'trough line' bumps.

do you agree with me that straight into the rut is a REALLY bad idea?

skinerd you idea is great in theory and when I can I ski like that. ie like snowbird bumps that arent troughed out and much bigger. these bumps dont have a round upslope they have rut that actually has a sharp edge. Like a 6inch of ice/hard pack sharp edge there is good chance you skis will stop dead if you try to drive though there bumps. I would honestly be afraid of breaking my tib/fib because a ski binding doesnt release when ever you ski is stopped.

IMO terrain can dictate tactics and technique. Its not nice when terrain does that, but in this case this case I would love to see anyone take a line that has the transition in the trough and the apex on top of the bump.
post #15 of 17
bushwacker, I think what I would say to elaborate on what skinerd said earlier is that you are doing a lot of tail swishing and speed checking on the tops of the bumps and missing opportunities to round out your turns a little. It seems kind of like you ski through the trough, around a bump and when you get to the little space on top of the next bump you try to use a massive amount of edging and pivoting to catch your free fall, then swish the tails to the other side and enter into the next trough. Hard work. There is a lot of visible effort on your part swish your tails.

What I would like to suggest is that yes, even in these bumps, you can do more scarving then you presently are! Instead of swishing your tails, let the skis turn themselves with scarving.

as you come around the side of a bump and you are approaching the top of the next bump, you will be absorbing this new bump as you approach it. As soon as your feet cross the highest point of the bump that they are going to cross

(which is not necessarily the actual highest point of the bump, it ideally might be the LOWEST place that you can cross in order to get to the trough on the other side, but there will definitely be a crest to cross, that involves flexison/absorption).

As your feet crest this point, drive your toes down the backside into the trough with everything you can muster, trying to extend your legs and at the same time tipping them onto the new edges, attempting to get some carvage out of your skis BEFORE the apex. Try to NOT swish your tails, try to focus on using that fleshy bit of snow to engage the edges and scarve out the top half of the turn.

The ice cliff edge you are talking about is typically on the bottom half of the bump, but there is a nice fleshy, carvable part that is on the uphill half of the bump around either side. That is the part you want to use your edges and scarve as you drop into the trough on either side. Don't fall into it, SCARVE into it. Once you're at the apex in the trough, your opporunity to control speed through scarving is mostly lost until are onto the top of the next bump which will have some fleshy snow to edge into.

Right now you are doing all of your edging at that very end of the turn and missing the pre-apex part of the turn. That is making everything harder. You don't have as much speed control in the top half of the turn, making the bottom half of the turn that much more difficult. But also in your case, its also forcing you to swish your tails with brute force, no other option, which is requiring all kinds of full body language that is counter productive.

Instead of skipping that top fleshy part with a swish and then free falling onto the top of each next bump and then doing a massive speed check before swishing into the next trough; try to engage your edges pre-apex and get some scarving roundness on that fleshy part of the bump before you are completely in the trough. Try not to swish, that destroys the scarve.
post #16 of 17
I am quite familiar with a 7 springs bump. My favorite kind especially if they are solid ice. The interesting thing about them is the variety of shapes and sizes and the lack of a back side. Great fun in my book.

Any more I do not change techniques in my skiing. I change D.I.R.T. I ski as round a line as I can and control my speed by increasing or decreasing the amount of time it takes to cover a certain distance with DIRT.

Speed is nothing more than distance divided by time. Change the time and you control the speed. Its as simple as that. Once you learn how to do that you can ski bumps of soild ice without back sides, while in control of your speed, all with minimal braking. You will have the bumps to yourself all day long.

Of course at your age the real zipperline does have some appeal.
post #17 of 17
Sorry Bushwakerin, I've never skied at 7 springs... but I am familiar with the type of bumps you are skiing. I did not mean to say ram head on into the steepest part of the wall. I agree that would be a great tactic to break something! I am just trying to say, avoid sliding down the scraped off part of the bump sideways then getting caught in that position and slamming into the trough. I think borntoski683 said it pretty well with the scarving description.

I wish I was a little more computer savy so I could put up a cool little animation and show you a picture, but instead I will make a poor attempt with words....

There are a few options for line here but the trick is to come into the bump with your skis at an apropriate angle. My first choice would be to take a slightly wider line by pushing your feet through the arc just outside the deepest part of the trough. With this rounder line, and edging early in the turn, you will hit the bump with your skis are on a better angle to help absorb it. This will also help you to deflect your mass... which feels cool.... like your riding a bunch of mini burms in rapid succession.

You could also try a similar line to the one your in... but with less pivot and more edge (scarve as described above) or if you want to go fast you could try the true freestyle zipper and take a line INSIDE everyone elses hitting only a small corner of the bump. Either way... have your skis on edge throughout the turn and let your tips hit first (not straight on but at angle appropriate for the bump).
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