EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Separate "Technique" & "Instructor" Forums?
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Separate "Technique" & "Instructor" Forums?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I have received a request to split these two forums into two separate ones. The argument for doing this is that fewer non-pros are posting in this forum asking for advice and, perhaps, this is because it is intimidating given the typical participant in this forum. Plus there is increasing non-technique industry talk going on.

I am open to doing whatever you guys want, but my hunch is that splitting them will not change the makup of the "Technique" forum and that this will make it necessary for you guys to check the 2 forums instead of one -- that most everyone here is interested in both types of topics.

What do you think?

[ August 28, 2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: AC ]
post #2 of 27
I like that idea of less clicks to get to the other threads in the forum. Here in Oz, I find Epicski takes quite a while to come down the phone line, and so I tend not to read everything. and therefore miss a lot of stuff. Not having to return to the topics page would be really useful.

I'm in 2 minds about 2 forums...it would be nice to be able to talk shop and gossip without fearing that it was inappropriate to the "technical" bent of the current forum (not that that stops me all the time!).
But "critical mass" is vital to a thriving forum. Maybe a test run...?
post #3 of 27
Since the proposed new section of Epic would presumably be of most interest to instructors, and involve them the most, it's too bad there wasn't another question in the poll that asked if the respondant was an instructor or not.

This way, if the software allowed the data to be analysed appropriately, it would have been very interesting to discriminate between cases such as:

a) Mostly instructors want the new section (ie, sure - let them have it);

b) Instructors themselves don't think its a good idea - this should be an instant death knell for the idea.

c) Non-instructors want it (ie, Phew! Lets get rid of all of the overly detailed posts);

d) Non-instructors didn't want it. I know that the intent of the new section is not to exclude anyone, but if this selection was popular, it might be demonstrating residual fear amongst non-pros that they would lose all the instructors to this other section.

etc. etc.

...not that I ever overanalyze things

Tom / PM

[ August 29, 2002, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: PhysicsMan ]
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
You can hop to any other forum directly using the "Hop To" menu at the bottom right (under the listing/thread) of any page.

Physics Man, even with that extra question you could not parse it that way with this software; but regardless, input from non-instructors who use this forum is useful tooo, don't you think?

BTW, I'm the one who voted for "other" becasue I realized after making the poll I couldn't view the results without voting!

[ August 29, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: AC ]
post #5 of 27
You're right, AC--having to check both sections would be a nuisance, however minor. But there are clearly at least two very different types of discussions going on in this section. And they may not be compatible, because I suspect that the high-level discussion about the profession of teaching skiing, even including movement analysis and in-depth technical details, confuses some people, and may even scare them away from EpicSki when all they want is simple discussion in English--not "skibonics"--of a burning question. Instructors can get pretty anal--and we need to, sometimes, in order to understand things well enough to explain them simply. But not everyone needs to hear that....

One thought/suggestion: it would be less "annoying" to check on other sections if we did not have to first click back to the Forums home page, then click on the next section, before finally getting to the threads. Is it possible to put links to all the other sections at the top of the page on each thread? That way each section is at most one click away....

For an example of what I mean, check out the BICYCLING Forums here. EpicSki's format is far superior to Bicycling's format, but I like the gray bar at the top of each page with direct links to each forum section.

I don't want you to think I'm complaining, though!



Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #6 of 27
I am not and instructor and some of the technical issues can become, well, very technical. Nevertheless, I enjoy reading this forum and it has helped my skiing a lot.

As far as the instructor content, I don't mind reading it because it gives me a better perspective of some of the issues and challenges these committed professionals face.
post #7 of 27
Quote:
You can hop to any other forum directly using the "Hop To" menu at the bottom right (under the listing/thread) of any page
Ah--so you can! Excellent! Is that a new feature, or have I just been blind all this time?

Lostboy--when this idea was discussed in another thread, it was the definite consensus (among those in favor of splitting the section) that the "instructor" section should remain open to anyone and everyone. You probably wouldn't want to enter there unaware of the nature of the discussions within, but anyone would be invited, if you were interested.

Still in favor, although I can see that majority is opposed at this point, and I have no problem with keeping it the way it is....

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

[ August 29, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Bob Barnes/Colorado ]
post #8 of 27
Hey Bob,

If you are still in the house clear some room in your PM list I have some camp info for you.

Yd
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Barnes/Colorado:
Ah--so you can! Excellent! Is that a new feature, or have I just been blind all this time?
It's been there for over two years.

[ August 29, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: AC ]
post #10 of 27
OK AC--I'll take your word for that!

Done, Ydnar--and I just replied to your PM too. Thanks!
post #11 of 27
Beginners section, seen it work well on a Mountain Biking site. People (& Gapers ) ask questions in plain English. Once they get past their first thread with good answers in a jargon free language they can understand there's no stopping 'em.

It may not be clear to a newcomer where to post but threads that are gear, technique, resort specific could always be moved to the correct sections. Many beginners feel more comfortable skiing together, perhaps they would feel more comfortable posting with other beginners as well.

DB
post #12 of 27
I did not articulate my views as well as I should have. I would not likely visit an instructor’s dedicated forum very often. Since I visit this forum regularly, I make it a point to go through all the current threads (well almost all ). In the process, I've gained some perspectives regarding issues facing instructors that I otherwise would be completely oblivious about. For forum visitors with my viewing habits, keeping the two subjects together has value.
post #13 of 27
I don't doubt that the average recreational skier finds much of our ranting and raving a bit excessive at times, and probably boring, too boot!

While the current format works just fine, it may be more user friendly to the majority of our members not to have to wade through it. As far as it being an inconvenience- I usually check in on at least 4-5 forums. What's one more?

If someone wants specific info, then they can check in on that forum, rather than being inundated by it...

Just my $.02... (By the way- it's good to be back!) [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

:
post #14 of 27
(by the way, it's good to HAVE you back!)

Will we be seeing you at the EpicSki Academy at Solitude?
post #15 of 27
I really like the idea of a Beginners Section. (Or, maybe to be more politically correct a "New Skiers" Forum.

In that Forum the talk would be much less technical and geared toward helping new skiers learn and understand the sport. If someone wanted to debate some nuances of a wedge turn, then they'd go back to the Technique Forum.

Makes sense to me.

bob
post #16 of 27
Perhaps different names than Technique and Instructors?
How about "Lessons/Questions" & "Teacher Techniques".
A forum title that makes it clear which is for the folks with straightforward questions & answers vs the Teacher's Lounge type discussions.
post #17 of 27
I like the idea of having a separate forums for instructor chat and technique discussions. Initially I thought the Ski Instruction forum would be great for tips, but I found most discussions were instructors talking about their teaching styles, pay, skills, lives, etc. I suspect other users feel the same way but never bother to come to this forum, and hence can't vote.

[ September 27, 2002, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: megadeth ]
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by megadeth:
I like the idea of having a separate forums for instructor chat and technique discussions. Initially I thought the Ski Instruction forum would be great for tips, but I found most discussions were instructors talking about their teaching styles, pay, skills, lives, etc. I suspect other users feel the same way but never bother to come to this forum, and hence can't vote.
totally agree. the instructor threads are often quite boring and utterly useless to anyone outside the industry. in contrast, i enjoy the technique threads, which are much more informative to the skiing public at large.

split 'em. if nothing else, it will give nolo her own forum in which to ruminate ad nauseum on the "nihilistic objectification of the post-modern ski instructor as seen through the works of descartes"....or whatever.

[ September 30, 2002, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Adema ]
post #19 of 27
Edit:

Even though the tongue weighs practically nothing, it's amazing how few can hold it.

[ September 30, 2002, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: nolo ]
post #20 of 27
Worth quoting one more time--thanks, Megadeth--well said.

Quote:
I like the idea of having a separate forums for instructor chat and technique discussions. Initially I thought the Ski Instruction forum would be great for tips, but I found most discussions were instructors talking about their teaching styles, pay, skills, lives, etc. I suspect other users feel the same way but never bother to come to this forum, and hence can't vote.
When voting, we (current members) should consider not only how well the forum works for US, but how it appears to new potential members who happen by, look in, and decide either to join us or not. Experienced members know our way around here, and we know where to go to get a question answered. But as Megadeth points out, this is no longer obvious to newcomers.

Since a discussion forum's value increases every time another person joins in, we don't want to scare people away. As a newer member, Megadeth's post above should carry a LOT of weight--he/she is exactly the person this is about! I'm with you, Megadeth--let's split them!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #21 of 27
If you split them, do you want the professionals board to be exclusively ski professionals? Every so often an issue comes up that is universal to anyone who teaches any sort of movement or recreational activity. Also, fitness and ski instruction seem to go through similar types of growing pains.
post #22 of 27
After reading all of the post, and well after I voted, I have been swayed to the other side. We cetainly don't want to appear to the general ski public as "boring."

I especially like to read Bob Barnes and Nolo's posts because I derive great benefit, as a teacher, getting different points of view from these two fine people.
post #23 of 27
Regarding the "Beginners' Section"--I'm curious to hear more from beginners, but I'd vote against it at this point. It's true that many beginners might be attracted to it, but equally true that some might NOT be. Some might be unwilling to post there, to avoid announcing to the world that they are beginners. And the advanced skiers who could offer them great advice may not be attracted there because--it's for beginners! And there isn't much beginner advice that isn't appropriate at all levels--and vice-versa. The same technical fundamentals apply!

How about, instead, a "Newcomers" section, where new members of all skiing levels could introduce themselves, see a bunch of other newcomers to realize that they aren't alone, and get (hopefully) friendly advice on the ins and outs of EpicSki. "What's this AC/DC thing, and what does it have to do with skiing?" "How come you people are always getting PMS from each other--I didn't even know it was contagious," "Where's the best place for me to announce my belief that the wedge is immoral?" "Where can I post some personal ads--I'd like to meet that Gonzo-person!" and "Can anyone tell me how to turn?"--woe be to the person who asks questions like these in the wrong place these days! They're much more likely to be forgiven in a Newcomers forum. It could work--but I still think that a separate dedicated "Technique Discussion" section would be the biggest help.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #24 of 27
Quote:
do you want the professionals board to be exclusively ski professionals?
Good question, Lisamarie. I, for one, am definitely NOT advocating an exclusive, pros-only section. I know that there are a FEW people out there who actually get some amusement from our in-depth rants about the nuances of our profession--and MANY who have valuable experience and insights to add! I'd like to see it remain open to anyone who is interested. My biggest desire is to regain the pure technique-discussion area, where we discuss how to ski, and how to learn to ski better. Right now those discussions are nearly obscured by our discussions about how to TEACH, our debates about the merits of teaching systems, and our discussions about things like the the EpicSki Academy.

Two sections, for CLARITY only--not to segregate or exclude anyone!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

[ September 30, 2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Bob Barnes/Colorado ]
post #25 of 27
By the way, why are there "pro's"? We are there to help/ assist those who want to improve! If we segregate ourselves on this forum, I feel that would terribly reduce the intent of the forums!

No students- no pro's. A very simple equation out on the hill!
Should it be any different here? Many threads have asked the question- "How do we attract more skiers/ students"? I don't think an effective answer is to segregate ourselves from the students!

Making everyone accessible here is the strength of this site! I do like Bob's idea of a "Newcomer's" area, where the new members or guests can get to know us as a group.

I also really like the idea of a hardcore, pull-no-punches, technical area! A call it as you see it zone.

:
post #26 of 27
You might focus on two different applications of the same compound perspectives of the what, why, where, when and how to of the:

1) Application in our own exploration of the skiing experience.

2) Application in our process of guiding the exploration (and learning) of others in their skiing experience.


post #27 of 27
I'm with Arcmeister...

A 'Beginners' & 'Pros' area has the problem for those like me - not either - where do I fit in? (Nah I'd still read it all - but for a newcomer)

If there are sections on 'Teaching skiing' & 'Learning to ski better' then I can chose to read what I wish of the content

For newbies wouldn't some sort of FAQ section help out???
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