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How do I know if my skis are too short?

post #1 of 35
12/14/08 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
I'm an advanced skier--am comfortable in all conditions--steeps, glades, bumps, powder, but not a true "expert."

My stats are: 5'10" 140-145lbs. I ski the K2 public enemy in a 164. The skis are great at moderate speeds and easy to make short turns in deep snow on steep terrain. The problem comes when I start skiing at higher and higher speeds on steeper terrain. When I start cruising at high speed, and when the terrain becomes steeper, I start to feel very unstable. It's not that the skis feel unstable. It's that I, myself, feel unstable--as if I'm about to fall at any time. I feel like my balance is very unsteady and my skiing becomes less enjoyable, mostly because I'm afraid I'm going to fall at high speed (although I almost never do).

Do you think this is because my skis are too short? Or is this simply a technique issue? Also, if I got longer skis, would they be more difficult on the steeps in deeper snow, where I have to make quick turns?

On a related issue, how does someone know when their skis are too long? What does it feel like to ski on a ski that's too long for you?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 35
12/14/08 at 11:13am
your skis are too short. maybe OK for groomed terrain at that speed, but not off the groomed

a ski that is too long feels hard to turn in the steeps.
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post #3 of 35
12/14/08 at 11:16am
It might be the length but probably more so the skis stiffness. I demoed a 161 cm Tigershark last year and it did seem a little strange being shorter than what I normally ski on but it felt very stable at high speeds. I think the makeup of the ski was the reason for it.
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post #4 of 35
12/14/08 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
your skis are too short. maybe OK for groomed terrain at that speed, but not off the groomed

a ski that is too long feels hard to turn in the steeps.
Ditto,

Keep in mind that a twin tip needs to be 5 or more CM longer than a flat tail ski since the running length is shorter. You may need to go up 2 sizes.

Michael
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post #5 of 35
12/14/08 at 2:21pm
The ski stiffness vs. length is important. I had an old pair of skis that were too long, and they just wouldn't flex or turn well for me unless i was going super fast. But if you stick to a relatively soft flexing ski I bet you can go to the mid 170cm length range and gain a lot of stability with relatively little drawback in steeps in deeper snow.
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post #6 of 35
12/14/08 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the comments guys. So now I'm debating whether to get the 174 vs the 169.

I'm leaning towards 174, but I'm afraid that they'll be too long for short turns/moguls.

Do any of you know people in my height/weight category (5'10", 140-145lbs) who ski the PE? What length do they prefer?
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post #7 of 35
12/14/08 at 3:36pm
Where do you ski? At a bigger mountain with deep snow I would go long...


I would read reviews by Dawgcatching. He provides some of the top reviews and he is a lighter skier.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=53095

Michael
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post #8 of 35
12/14/08 at 4:12pm
Probably 174 if you're sticking with a twintip - I'm about your height and maybe 5 pounds heavier and ski a 176 non-twin.
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post #9 of 35
12/14/08 at 8:06pm
Before you spend the big bucks on new skis, have a really good shop check the tune on those skis. If they need a tune, or if they've been poorly tuned, they'll feel bad, especially at speed.

Ski length is dependent on many things, especially
--The characteristics the ski maker built into the skis; the stiffness for each length, among others.
--The energy you put into the skis from your weight, height, skiing speed, and skiing energy level.

If the skis are well tuned, you might be overpowering those skis in that length. Demo other lengths of this model or other models in various lengths to see what works best for you.

I'm a 6', 200#, medium energy very good skier, and I'm on top line 170cm skis on pack and 184cm skis off piste. In both cases those sizes are one size below the longest for those ski models...this works well for me.
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post #10 of 35
12/14/08 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
I think the tune is pretty good. The skis were brand new when I skied them. I think the problem is that if the skis are long enough to feel stable at extreme speed, then they're probably going to be difficult to turn quickly for short turns/moguls. And visa versa.

I might just go with the 169's as a compromise. However, I am going to try and demo a pair of 174's just in case. 174 is a bit longer than what I'm used to, but maybe it's what I need (my skis are usually in the 163-170 range). We'll see.
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post #11 of 35
12/14/08 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Thanks for all the comments guys. So now I'm debating whether to get the 174 vs the 169.

I'm leaning towards 174, but I'm afraid that they'll be too long for short turns/moguls.

Do any of you know people in my height/weight category (5'10", 140-145lbs) who ski the PE? What length do they prefer?
I weigh around 146 and I'm 5'9.5". I own the PE in a 174. I also have a few other skis.

First, I would say demo to find out what you like for where you ski. There are more choices that PE for skiing. Having said that, the PE is a pretty versatile ski: it is good, but not great in bumps, groomers, crud and powder (in the right length).

I find the 174 the right length for me in everything but powder, where I wish it was longer. In the bumps, it is just a bit heavy.

If you ski in the East and like small turns, the 169 may be OK, but I like longer skis the more I ski. If you want more stability, you will find length helpful, but you start to sacrifice quickness.
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post #12 of 35
12/15/08 at 10:07am
Your skis are too short. Where do you ski? If it's anywhere in the west, get the 179s. If not, get the 174s, or consider the 179s.
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post #13 of 35
12/16/08 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier357 View Post
It might be the length but probably more so the skis stiffness.
This is true, I'm very close to your stats (5'10" 150lbs) and have never had my 160cm sl skis go unstable at speed. Less stiff skis are a different story entirely.

Skis without high stiffness, like your PEs, are going to suffer. You need to go a fair bit longer, especially with twins.
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post #14 of 35
12/16/08 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Thanks for all the comments guys. So now I'm debating whether to get the 174 vs the 169.

I'm leaning towards 174, but I'm afraid that they'll be too long for short turns/moguls.

Do any of you know people in my height/weight category (5'10", 140-145lbs) who ski the PE? What length do they prefer?
For your reference I ride 176cm Gotamas and 176 is shortest ski I would ever want to be on. I am 6 feet and 135, upper-intermediate, East Coaster.

For me a twin tipped 176 feels a bit unstable at higher speed, but this doesn't concern me since I'm mostly a woods skier. You may want to demo the K2 Extreme in 169 & 174 (or something similar) if you have a chance.
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post #15 of 35
12/16/08 at 7:39am
Answer.. the short version..
You need a quiver
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post #16 of 35
12/16/08 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arewolfe View Post
For your reference I ride 176cm Gotamas and 176 is shortest ski I would ever want to be on. I am 6 feet and 135, upper-intermediate, East Coaster.

For me a twin tipped 176 feels a bit unstable at higher speed, but this doesn't concern me since I'm mostly a woods skier. You may want to demo the K2 Extreme in 169 & 174 (or something similar) if you have a chance.
There's a lot of stuff going on in that post above that gives me pause. Longer skis feeling more unstable at speed... longer skis being better for tight eastern glades - hell, 105 underfoot being used as your only ski for the east period. Not to mention somebody who weighs 130 saying they'll never ski anything shorter than a 176! Hope you don't take up slalom...

For what it's worth, I'm aiming at skis around 170-174cm for a frontside ski at 160lbs/5'11. If I can, though, I'm certainly going to demo the 170ish size and the 178ish size of the same ski - it can make a big difference.

As has been mentioned MANY times in this thread already, ski sizing is affected by the following:
1) Height + Weight
2) Ski type (twin tip? midfat?)
3) Target Terrain
4) Exact ski model
5) Skill level + style
and here's the important caveat... 6) Personal preference!!!
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post #17 of 35
12/16/08 at 10:36am
I'm 5'11" and fluctuate between 170 and 180 during the season (180 at the beginning, 170 at the end).

I don't ride anything shorter than a 180, which i have found to be my optimal length.

Currently my everyday sticks are 188 and my powder planks are 185.

At your height and weight I'd be looking at the 175-177 range at the very lease, especially for something like the Public Enemys.

Best way I've found to determine if a ski is too short is if they get squirrely when you're ripping groomers.

I was on 177 Mantras and Karmas a few seasons ago and they ended up feeling really short and squirrelly on groomed terrain and really deep ungroomed. Wished I'd had the 183/185 in each.
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post #18 of 35
12/16/08 at 10:44am
5'10" on 164's??? Too short. Even at your weight.
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post #19 of 35
12/16/08 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
Hey guys

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm leaning towards pulling the trigger on the 174's, based on all your advice. Although I might make a trip up to vermont just to demo. BTW, I'm on the east coast but I make trips out west quite often. We'll see how it turns out...
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post #20 of 35
12/16/08 at 1:47pm
DEMO! DEMO! DEMO!

My bet you will end up with 179cm. I am 5'3" and preffer to ski 170cm.
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post #21 of 35
12/16/08 at 2:19pm
As Stroller suggests, the only way to know what type and length of ski to buy is to DEMO the type of ski you think you want in the conditions you plan on skiing. There are so many variables (ski ability and technique, ski type, performance characteristics, terrain, snow conditions, ski tune, etc.) that impact performance that it is really hard to recommend a ski length based upon general information posted here.

I am 5'8" and weigh 175 pounds and personally ski on 168cm skis that are exceptionally stable at speed (based upon the characteristics I'm looking for) that do fine on both groomed snow and off piste. One of the reasons for this is I keep the skis well tuned.

Keeping your skis tuned properly is critical to maximizing the performance of your skis. When I've demoed skis that were poorly tuned by the demo shop (Volkl AC 40s in a 177) the performance of the ski was impacted significantly.

Mike
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post #22 of 35
12/18/08 at 3:14am

Demo a Volkl AC50

At speed and in crud it will be more stable than the PE for the same length. Try it in a 177 length.
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post #23 of 35
12/18/08 at 4:07am
Forget demoing, go out and buy 5 pairs - different models, different lengths.
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post #24 of 35
12/18/08 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
Forget demoing, go out and buy 5 pairs - different models, different lengths.
That's what I do.
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post #25 of 35
12/18/08 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
Hey guys

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm leaning towards pulling the trigger on the 174's, based on all your advice. Although I might make a trip up to vermont just to demo. BTW, I'm on the east coast but I make trips out west quite often. We'll see how it turns out...
the 174 should be great ski in vermont. I am 165 and on the 179 mounted plus 2 which BTW is the most versatile mount point in my opinion. I had them at the rear most line didnt like then there and like them best +2.

I do feel the 179 can ski short out west sometimes, back here in the east i feel they are just right all the time. Still might switch to some bridges this year to have a stiffer more powerful ski and if I do that I am getting the 185.
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post #26 of 35
12/18/08 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmblur View Post
There's a lot of stuff going on in that post above that gives me pause. Longer skis feeling more unstable at speed... longer skis being better for tight eastern glades - hell, 105 underfoot being used as your only ski for the east period. Not to mention somebody who weighs 130 saying they'll never ski anything shorter than a 176! Hope you don't take up slalom...

For what it's worth, I'm aiming at skis around 170-174cm for a frontside ski at 160lbs/5'11. If I can, though, I'm certainly going to demo the 170ish size and the 178ish size of the same ski - it can make a big difference.

As has been mentioned MANY times in this thread already, ski sizing is affected by the following:
1) Height + Weight
2) Ski type (twin tip? midfat?)
3) Target Terrain
4) Exact ski model
5) Skill level + style
and here's the important caveat... 6) Personal preference!!!
my front side carvers are 170. twin tip like the PE should be 10cm longer than your hard snow ski so I have those in a 179. believe it or not the longer you get the PE the better it is on groomers.

Lastly the gotama is a capable ski if you not some tight wad. ITs can ski nearly anything and excel on anything that has a little give to it.

somebody 130 should be on the 176, it measure short has short contact lenght and isnt as 'long' as most people think. If I bought gotama again I would get the 190 even for back east and think about 197(if it was made) if i was any out west. I still ski an enjoy 170 carvers which I think I keep the same lenght.

if you always ski on short lots of sidecut skis you have huge hole in your skiing IMO. learning how to drive a 190ish stiff freeride board will change your skiing jsut liking learn to ski race stock SL skis.
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post #27 of 35
12/18/08 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
Forget demoing, go out and buy 5 pairs - different models, different lengths.
That's the plan !
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post #28 of 35
12/18/08 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
SO i've pulled the trigger on a pair of 174 cm PE's. $250 shipped. At that price, I can probably afford to buy a few pairs at different sizes....
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post #29 of 35
12/19/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post
SO i've pulled the trigger on a pair of 174 cm PE's. $250 shipped. At that price, I can probably afford to buy a few pairs at different sizes....
Good starting point. You'll have fun on them. You'll probably find a speed limit on them, and then you can grab that longer pair.
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post #30 of 35
12/19/08 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat View Post
Forget demoing, go out and buy 5 pairs - different models, different lengths.
I couldn't agree more!
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