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Dropped the Bomb on the Garmont Shaman

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Garmont Shaman

Attachment 4394

After getting into a new shop, there were several lines that I wasn't that familiar with- one being Garmont.

I like a stiffer narrow boot, preferably one with a replaceable sole, so this was pretty high on the list, but it wasn't a deal breaker though. The Shaman comes with a DIN sole and one with some tread on it that is slightly rockered on the front piece. I believe it is 98mm under the foot. I usually wear a size 10.5 street shoe, my Falcons are a size 27.5 with a 315mm sole length. These are a UK 8. The sticker on the front toe says "MP 27.0, US 8.5, FR 42". For being 2mm longer than my Falcons at 317mm sole length, they fit a lot shorter.

Attachment 4399

The Shaman has a very contoured heel pocket that fits my ankle very well. Keeping in line with the AT heritage of the Garmont line, the toe box is tall, but not excessively boxy. Most of the AT boots I try on have a toe box that it too wide or boxy. That's great for touring, but I'll be using this boot primarily inbounds with the DIN sole. I may get a pair of Dukes or Barons, but will likely ski on a Jester (again). I have to make that derision buy 2PM.

Under the foot, the boots feel great. Today will be my first day in them. There is a slight hot spot on my right foot at the "sixth met". My shell fit is approx 8 mm, so it's pretty snug down there, but not too racey. My orthotic is a Conform'able with about 250 days on it and it's still going strong.

Attachment 4395

For the Bootfitting crowd, you can see the zeppa in the background. It can be easily ground if you need it. I can't remember the ramp angle right now, but it is not too steep. This boot has a less aggressive forward lean than my venerable Falcon 10s, but the cuff/power strap combo is slightly taller. The power strap is not as burly as the one on the Falcon. It not stretchy, just straight up webbing w/ Velcro. The Flex is marked at 130, but most of Garmont's material (& the Rep) says it is really 120.

Attachment 4396

I'll let you know how they perform later tonight.

And the bonus pic:

My son hotdoggin' it at the Village yesterday. The Village skied great, as we got about 6 new the day before... Bluebird skies and cold temps kept the snow great.

Attachment 4398
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 30
Sexy Boots! I'll see you soon for my Intuition Cook.
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
Sexy Boots! I'll see you soon for my Intuition Cook.
Then you'll have some sexy liners!
post #4 of 30
So totally off topic, but:
This is at least the second pic SIJ has posted of one of his children. Last year, I met his family while doing lunch mid-mountain at Jackson Hole, ( I think it was his birthday as he had a new watch.)
Later that afternoon, I made a couple of runs with his family. His children can flat out ski! I didn't see much of the 2 older ones, including his son and older daughter who were way too far down the mountain for me to observe. His two younger daughters were a treat to watch.
Stephen, we're returning Jan 17, so maybe we can do it again with a full trip report about skiing with your family.
Did my first day with my new Speedmachine 14 boots with the lntuition liners you did for me last year. Love 'em!
Mike
post #5 of 30
Thread Starter 
Mike:

Thanks for the kind words. You're not a bad skier yourself...

It was on my birthday that I met you. It would be a pleasure for us to ski with you again! You are welcome with us!

BTW-who is "we"???
post #6 of 30
Is the Shaman intended as an AT or inbounds boot?

It appears to have an accordion mid-sole.
post #7 of 30
Thread Starter 
The Shaman has the linage of an AT boot, two soles- one DIN and one for hiking and a roomier toe box (at least that's what the rep said). he toe box is roomier than what I'm used to. There is no walk/ski mode like std AT boots.

The waffle sole will be great for kicking steps. It is designed primarily as an inbounds boot for the user who frequents the side country. The waffle sole, the rep says, is there first as a stiffener for the sole of the boot and second, as teeth for kicking steps in the sidecountry.

I took a few runs yesterday in it. I'm getting some pressure in the instep.

I find the buckles hard to use with gloves. The close very securely. The flip side of this is that they snap shut like a mouse trap. I caught my fingers a few times.

The boot skis great. I think the flex at right around a 120. My foot was cold beacuse I hadn't packed out the boot. I anticipate this boot will be warm one the pack out is accomplished.

More later...
post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post
Mike:

Thanks for the kind words. You're not a bad skier yourself...

It was on my birthday that I met you. It would be a pleasure for us to ski with you again! You are welcome with us!

BTW-who is "we"???
I am a part of the "we".


I have been wearing Garmont shoes for a long time and really like them. I also wore Garmont ski boots back in 79 or so for one dreaded season, the Garmont Ultralite II. This boot looks not only 98mm wide, but also 98mm tall. I am intrigued by their line along with what Black Diamond is putting out with the Boa liner.
post #9 of 30
Thread Starter 
Great! Can't wait to meet some more from Epic.

Not sure on the liner...
post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strato View Post
Is the Shaman intended as an AT or inbounds boot?

It appears to have an accordion mid-sole.
The Shaman is Garmont's "free-ride" version of their race boot, the G.1...
The differences being the soles which are designed to allow an easier walk and a slightly wider volume as already noted, but also the use of softer material (G.1 is quoted as being 150, last yesr G.1 as 130, Shaman should derive from last year G.1 IIRC).
Given the alpine origin it's a "descender's" boot (remember my thread about being "climbers" or "descenders"...) or a boot for spending your whole day on snow (like instructors), that's what my Sciare mag ski/boot reviews says at least...
post #11 of 30
It's a hybrid boot on the stiff side.

I'm putting mine to use shortly - results pending. Will report back.
post #12 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowHog View Post
It's a hybrid boot on the stiff side.
Right on.

I guess I have four or five days on them now and feel like they are going to work out pretty well.

For those of you who have skied JH, you know that it gets pretty cold here. The marketing dept would tell you that it keeps the snow nice- that's true, but it is still pretty cold here and can make for some challenging conditions.

I wanted to wait for these colder conditions before I spoke about my new Shamans. Today was cold. it was about 8F in town and the temp mid mountain (at the top of the Gondola) when checked, it was about 3F. It was the first really cold day in my new boots. I feel this boot was very warm for the amount of warmth it provided.

In my experience boots can be either warm and comfortable or stiff and cold. There may be exceptions to this rule, but they are few. My boots are on a professional boot drier each night for the first time in years (no more pulling the liner each night) & I was was impressed with how warm they stayed. I ski with my kids every day & we can cover the mountain- that said, there is some stand around time with the little ones. I was warm. A lot warmer than my Falcon 10s.

A coworker stated this boot gave him chin bang. I have not found that to be the case. This guy is bigger than me (I'm 6'@" & 190 lbs) and a very strong skier, so I wouldn't doubt it. My heel sits low and my shin gets very good "coverage" and even pressure in the forward lean. The narrow heel was an area of initial concern, but it has formed to my anatomy nicely. I get a slight pressure point just above my right lateral ankle. It is not too bad, probably a 3 or 4 out of ten.

I have not and will not heat this boot on the stacks.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I get a hot point/sharp spot on my right fifth met head at about a three, but am determined to see this out until I have determined I have reached packout. Each time I ski, this pressure point diminishes. The left boot is just fine.

I'll admit this to a very closely guarded audience. I totally ate it in front of a large crowd in front of the shop this afternoon. It has been 15 or so years since I ate it in ski boots. I was just walking along and WHAM! both boots fly out from under me! I was on my arse before I knew what was going on. Ouch- if I wasn't in front of the shop, it would have been soooo bad. Thankfully none of them saw it. I wonder of the AT sole is less slippery than the IN sole. What ouzzles me is that it was dry concrete that brought me down???

Thanks for your time.

More later.




Quote:
Originally Posted by PowHog View Post
I'm putting mine to use shortly - results pending. Will report back.
Let's hear it.

The bonus pic:

Liberty my 7 y/o daughter getting after it on Apres Vous lift Friday.

Attachment 4429

Eden, my 12 y/o is off to the right waiting to hit the same natural "feature".
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post #13 of 30
Thread Starter 

I think it has been around 55-60 days that I have been in the Shaman. I was in the season 15 or so days on a pair of venerable Falcon 10s.  I wanted to make sure I was able to pack out the liner properly before boot work. Again, this is a great boot. From the very beginnings, this boot gave me a pretty sharp contralateral ankle pressure.  On the lateral malleolus I got good solid quarter-sized hot spots each time I skied.

 

The pressure at the 5th head was moderate to high. 

 

There were points I thought I had chosen the incorrect boot for my foot.  But there were so many nice features about this boot, I wanted to wear it.  It is a great boot.  The pressure on the ankles lessened with packout- which was pretty long.  After about 25 days did I feel the liner was packed out. 

 

A little grind at the distal fifth met head was needed, but know everything is fine.  The liner is warm and supportive.  My Comform'able footbed is going strong after 300+ days.  I've learned to walk on the DIN sole- it is a softer sole and is wearing faster than I though it would.  No sweat as Garment soles are pretty easy to come buy.

 

The buckles are strong and secure.  The toe box is roomy.

 

The pack out of this and other high-end stock liners can take some getting use to.  As stronger skiers demand more power out of a boot the liners have gotten much nicer as well.  I think a well packed out stock liner in a correct shell size w/ minimal boot work is the best fit of all.  It does however, take some time and willpower.

 

I was able to meet up with some of the Brethren last week.  If schedules work out,  is fun to show the hill to friends.  The snow was great.  Props to everybody.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #14 of 30

Pretty much agree that it's a nicely stiff boot with a snug fit. About the same as my old Atomic 10-50s and skis as well. Mainly use them while freeriding in the backcountry.

 

Also got some pressure on the ankles which I hope will disappear without seeing a bootfitter.

post #15 of 30


 

 I think a well packed out stock liner in a correct shell size w/ minimal boot work is the best fit of all.  It does however, take some time and willpower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

This is what I've always thought, but it's interesting to hear a boot fitter say it.

post #16 of 30
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowHog View Post

 

 

Also got some pressure on the ankles which I hope will disappear without seeing a bootfitter.

 

A customer who came in the store yesterday again remarked about this pressure.  He had tried on the Shaman a few times before and this ankle pressure always got to him- and many others.  It has gotten to the point where people (ladies as well with the Astral) instantly shoot down this boot due to the ankle pressure. 

 

Almost always, I put put the boot on, then again with c pads on the ankles.  This releases the pressure on the lateral ankles and doesn't change the fit of the boot much.  Otherwise, this boot is dead in the water.  People who I have sold this boot to are very happy.

 

 

post #17 of 30
Thread Starter 
I am still skiing this olive drab cinder block...  ~150 days so far.

It is a great boot.  I love it.  I reversed the toes to bring some more life to them- I have not gone down walking in them since that one time, but am very careful walking.  Many, myself included, underestimated the stiffness of this 130 rated boot.  I've worked through some fit issues that have killed some clients' feet.  Make no mistake, it is a burly boot and requires a studious break in/pack out. 

The thin plugish liner is doing well and is only slightly colder than when they came from the box.  Some time last year, around day 75, I put in a thin full length bontex under the liners.  This eliminated the volume.  As stock liners become nicer and more sophisticated skiers don't always have to go immediately to an intuition for warmth and performance- maybe in my case never at all.

The shell is doing well.  I'm a sloppy skier and shred the inside of a boot-and it is really steep here ;-)   My buckles are functioning just fine.  The Velcro on the power strap is at 100%.  Sometimes a nice boot will go cheap on the power strap figuring stronger skiers will go to a Booster Strap anyway.  Not the case with the Shaman.  As an essential part of the boot, Garmont has made it of nice webbing and high quality Velcro

I figure there are at least 450 days on my Conform'able footbed.  I gave it a light post under the medial arch.  This firmed things up.  It has served me well and will soon be put to pasture.  Slightly it is delaminating.  Review in works.

There you go.  The Garmont Shaman as a daily driver in Jackson Hole. 

Also on a side note, it is on top of a 192 Atomic Atlas (125 underfoot) w/ Marker Jester.  Of the 40+ days skiing this year, all but two are on the Atlas.

Edit for Bonus Pic!!!

Eden on AV

post #18 of 30
Quote:
It is a great boot.  I love it.  I reversed the toes to bring some more life to them- I have not gone down walking in them since that one time, but am very careful walking.  Many, myself included, underestimated the stiffness of this 130 rated boot.  I've worked through some fit issues that have killed some clients' feet.  Make no mistake, it is a burly boot and requires a studious break in/pack out.
What does this mean about the toes?
Do you prefer power straps to booster straps? I'm thinking of going back to power straps.
Nice pic! looks like some sort of Lord of the Rings adventure.
post #19 of 30
SiJ - Shaman is on my new boot short list. It looks to have all of the basic features that I like, stiff flex, nice buckles, done. It's not available in my area, but I see that STP has them. I am of the skinnyshinandanklelowinstepDwidthforefoot tribe. My foot measures 305mm so that makes me chief. 345 bsl on my present daily drivers, I'm 6-4 240. It seems that Garmonts UK size 11 is equivalent to mondo 30.0. Does that sound right? Would you say Shaman is a low instep, or high instep type of boot? Do I have a shot at stretching my D-width foot into this boot, or is it limited to B/C widths? The 100mm lasted boot that I have tried - Dragon, S11, Nordica Beast12, superblaster - have all seemed too wide.

Thanks!
post #20 of 30
Thread Starter 
While a ski boot does not function well for gait.  Many ski boots show a distinct wear pattern on the soles from walking on hard or rough surfaces. 

On boots with removable toes & heels, one can reverse them to even up the wear.  Like rotating tires.

Otter: I would say it is a high instep boot.  The cuff is tall and narrow.  At your size you may have a tough time getting down into the heel.  Only trying it on will let you know.
post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post

...Almost always, I put put the boot on, then again with c pads on the ankles.  This releases the pressure on the lateral ankles and doesn't change the fit of the boot much.  Otherwise, this boot is dead in the water...

 

 


What are c pads?

(I'm 2000 miles from Jackson, otherwise would make an appt... maybe this summer)

jpw
post #22 of 30
post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
^^^ That's a great deal!

Yeah, I'm a chump for this boot.  Over that past few weeks the liner fabric has begun to separate from the foam in the heel.  It pulls away from the heel and when I reach in to push/place it back into the heel pocket, it just flops around.  There are no tears in the liner, it is just loose.

We are going to carry this boot next year.

I've skied 96 days on this boot so far this year and well over 200 in two winter seasons!  Yikes!  I skied my venerable Salomon Falcon 10s for the same amount of time, but I didn't fall in love with them as much as the Shamans.

Full review coming shortly.

Bonus Pics:

Liberty did a photo shoot for Marmot.  Film, digital, 16mm were all used.  We were very fortunate to have the mighty Gabel Rogel (who does a lot of work for Marmot) send us some of the pictures.  What a difference a pro makes.  They had her most of the day and I guess they got some good footage.  This picture is after an 8 hour marathon photo shoot sometime in Feb. 2010, Libz is still with the shooting crew eating pizza:

Liberty marmot 1.jpg

OK, OK. OK...

One More:

His Greatness, the Awesome and Sage of JH, Bob Peters took this snapshot on the traverse to Amphitheater one of our fine Spring days.  Best pic of us on the Hill evar!!!!!

Stephen and Christy Jackson Hole.jpg
post #24 of 30
Hi Stephen,
Dude, those pics are much too good to be buried in a boot thread!

Are McDonald's now members of the Marmot team? Libz and Christie lookin' good! Lucky man!
post #25 of 30
Nice, now a model in the family......

BTW- gotta' love a woman who ski's in pearls.... 
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 

Bump!

 

I'm thinking about boots this morning.

 

post #27 of 30

Me too!

 

I hear there's a really good fitter up  in Jackson........

post #28 of 30
Thread Starter 

Wow!

 

I ski this boot everyday.  It is a faithful and loyal servant.

 

The flex is a solid 130 and the 98mm last (larger in my size) is narrow, and the high instep of this boot fits me great.  In all my time working with the mighty Shaman, I've not stretched out a toe box for anyone.  If you are picking this boot, you either have the foot for it or are willing to make it work.

 

Maybe the lasting impression of this boot will boil down to two things: 1) It is very warm.  For a racy narrow boot with a thin liner Garmont did the trick- it is always warm.  I ski every day in a broad range of conditions.  My feet are never cold.  It does it's job.  2) Great skiing.

 

The stock liner is doing well for the 275 days (in three years cool.gif!) I have on them.  It lives on a functioning industrial boot drier.  I have done nothing since adding the ankle c-pads and thin layer of Bontex under the liner. 

 

I am a fan of lower volume socks, particularly the Bridgedale microfit, so my liner doesn't get a lot of wear inserting and removing the foot.  It is beginning to separate a little at the heels on the inside, but is totally skiable.  So far, there are no rips and the interior lining is all in one piece.  That spot that takes a beating in a tight boot.  For a stock liner they are wearing great, but then again, I'm not a fan of charging into Intuition liners anyway, especially in this boot.

 

A boot has to fit great to ski great.  This is a great boot, but like other top end boots, it requires a lengthy and studious break in.  I still have my Conform'Able orthotics in there.  At 500+ days they are doing great.  Put c-pads on the ankle bones immediately, the relief will be great.

 

Depending on the shell fit, standard wrap Intuition liners won't work- go with the plug liner.  The popular Ultralon liners don't like the narrow heels. On the consumer end, I've seen some feet that have been crushed by std wrap liners.  Because the boot is pretty low volume, the Intuition liner's delicate balance between expansion and compression gets tweaked at the foot's expense.  For most people- a crushing volume reduction.

 

All the buckles are original and they have taken a beating.  In my How to out your boots on thread, I mentioned I don't keep the forefoot buckles too tight, so they are constantly banging on things.  I wish the buckle levers were longer, they are hard to buckle at times.  The velcro powerstrap is "as new". 

 

I'd be interested in seeing more of what Garmont has in the pipeline.

 

Bonus pic:

 

A friend took this picture of us the other day at the top of the Quad, err Sublette lift.  There was a layer of cotton clouds and the skiing above it was great!  Notice all our fun & awesome Marmot gear.  My Marmot Trient jacket is perhaps the nicest Jacket I've ever owned.  So nice I went and bought the wonen's model for Mrs. SIJ!  Both Liberty (of course) and Damaris are happy with their Marmot gear.  They wear it every day and it is lasting great.  Several rounds in the laundry hasn't hurt it a bit.  We hit it with Scothguard pretty hard when it comes out of the drier. 

 

The clouds were higher this day than usual.  The layer was at the top of Thunder or so...

 

DSCN0287.JPG

 

 

post #29 of 30

Just in case folks weren't aware, the Shaman was designed by a former Nordica boot engineer who had his hands in designing the venerable Grand Prix, the forebear to the Aggressor.  The Shaman, to my feet (though I don't own a pair) is the Grand Prix done right, with the various trouble spots either blown out or re-engineered.  It seems like a great boot, though it doesn't quite fit my feet properly.

post #30 of 30

I put some intuition plugs in my shamans which gave them additional room.  This improved my situation a lot.  Never had an issue with warmth, but had issues with the stock liner and volume.  The buckles on these are mouse traps.

 

edit: liners are powerwrap plug liners

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