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Another conditioning Q - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post
A joint ( knee hip,etc.) no ,you are correct,I agree.
But are you saying if someone has a tight psoas and cannot full extend his hip he should not work to correct that tightness by stretching?
I'm saying that, AFAIK, there's no evidence that he should, and there's even evidence that he shouldn't. There's a couple of posts above that go into this in more detail.

If you have evidence that stretching "a tight psoas" or any other muscle is beneficial, I'd love to see it.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Babies W-sit before they even know the word yoga. We are told that it's a lack of muscle tone and that they will grow both out of that and pigeon-footedness when they gain muscle tone. Fine. Which muscles? Which muscles get so developed that the adult can then become duck-footed and how do we correct the asymmetry?
Just to add one person's data to this question ....
I have always been able to W-sit. I can even lie my back down on the floor as I W-sit. I did not have to work on this; it comes naturally. However, I cannot tailor-sit, and never have been able to. That's so odd, since most people are the opposite. However, I am duck-footed with a vengeance (skis pointed way out when on the lift), and my knees track dramatically inwards when I flex them, on skis or off. Oh, and I supinate. Go figure.

My point? I suspect there's no simple correlation between how you can sit on the floor, static and dynamic foot positions, and how your knees track. I'm of the opinion that Q angle and other bone relationships control this, not ligaments, tendons, and muscles.
post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
Just to add one person's data to this question ....
I have always been able to W-sit. I can even lie my back down on the floor as I W-sit. I did not have to work on this; it comes naturally. However, I cannot tailor-sit, and never have been able to. That's so odd, since most people are the opposite. However, I am duck-footed with a vengeance (skis pointed way out when on the lift), and my knees track dramatically inwards when I flex them, on skis or off. Oh, and I supinate. Go figure.

My point? I suspect there's no simple correlation between how you can sit on the floor, static and dynamic foot positions, and how your knees track. I'm of the opinion that Q angle and other bone relationships control this, not ligaments, tendons, and muscles.

Out of curiosity, how strong is your snowplow? Bulletproof, no shakes or aches, all day, on ice?
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Out of curiosity, how strong is your snowplow? Bulletproof, no shakes or aches, all day, on ice?
I don't snowplow on ice.
post #35 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
I don't snowplow on ice.
That could get tricky in NE lift lines.
post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
That could get tricky in NE lift lines.
Well, ok. Forgot about that.

Weren't we addressing how stretching might affect the way knees track? Sounds like no one so far has any info on that being an effective means of fixing annoying knee issues while skiing.

Perhaps a good bootfitter trumps stretching for this issue.
post #37 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
Well, ok. Forgot about that.

Weren't we addressing how stretching might affect the way knees track?
That was Part 1. Part 2 has to do with the relative* strength of the muscles that might affect knee tracking.




*to each other and to body mass.
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
That was Part 1. Part 2 has to do with the relative* strength of the muscles that might affect knee tracking.
*to each other and to body mass.
I'm still thinking a good bootfitter, knowledgeable enough to do some creative canting along with cuff adjustments and footbed work, might be able to solve difficult knee tracking issues most effectively.
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rick View Post
I'm saying that, AFAIK, there's no evidence that he should, and there's even evidence that he shouldn't. There's a couple of posts above that go into this in more detail.

If you have evidence that stretching "a tight psoas" or any other muscle is beneficial, I'd love to see it.
Yes,
"Evidence based fitness"
Something that is Measurable,Observable,Repeatable.
If they come in unable to lift their arms over their head in a functional manner, I have them work on the stretch that fixes that .
If a few weeks later they show a marked improvement,which we see all the time,that is evidence enough for me.
post #40 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
I'm still thinking a good bootfitter, knowledgeable enough to do some creative canting along with cuff adjustments and footbed work, might be able to solve difficult knee tracking issues most effectively.
He'd have to repeat the process every time the skier changed summer sport focus.
post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
He'd have to repeat the process every time the skier changed summer sport focus.
Really???

Do people really get their boot fitters to re-do all that work after doing a different summer sport?
post #42 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
Really???

Do people really get their boot fitters to re-do all that work after doing a different summer sport?
A summer of skating and tennis won't train the same muscles as a summer of bouldering and cycling.

Thus, I do not think that 'see bootfitter' should be the only recourse.
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
A summer of skating and tennis won't train the same muscles as a summer of bouldering and cycling.
Thus, I do not think that 'see bootfitter' should be the only recourse.
I get it, finally.
post #44 of 47

huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
I get it, finally.
Would you then please be kind enough to explain it? I just don't understand why or how changing one's summer sports from, for example, skating and tennis to bouldering and cycling would require a re-alignment for skiing? That these different sports emphasize different muscle groups wouldn't, by any mechanism of which I'm aware (barring serious injury), change the position, tracking, or alignment of any of the joints, would they? I mean, how or why would changing from riding one's bicycle one summer to bouldering the next necessarily lead to a requirement that one revisit a bootfitter for skiing?
post #45 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rick View Post
Would you then please be kind enough to explain it? I just don't understand why or how changing one's summer sports from, for example, skating and tennis to bouldering and cycling would require a re-alignment for skiing? That these different sports emphasize different muscle groups wouldn't, by any mechanism of which I'm aware (barring serious injury), change the position, tracking, or alignment of any of the joints, would they? I mean, how or why would changing from riding one's bicycle one summer to bouldering the next necessarily lead to a requirement that one revisit a bootfitter for skiing?
Thinking that this makes a difference explains the question. Not the (elusive) answer.
post #46 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
Thinking that this makes a difference explains the question. Not the (elusive) answer.
Well said
post #47 of 47
Thanks, now I get it, too.
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