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Pain after first day

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Not sure this is a boot issue, but could be a fore/aft balance issue, so thought I'd start here.

After my first day of skiing, I am experiencing some muscle soreness of my calves. It's muscle soreness, not point pain. No pain anywhere else. Quads don't know I went skiing.

I am skiing in Dobermann Pro 130's. I have a custom footbed, the stock boot board and no heel lifts. I did remove one bolt (to soften them a tad). I am using the stock Dobermann power strap (which is an elastic Booster). I do not over tighten the top buckle. I run the second buckle rather tight, but the two over the forefoot are both on the first catch.

In my skiing, I was concentrating on getting and staying forward.

Performing a self test of ankle dorsiflextion, when sitting in a chair, I can lift my foot about 3", when measured from the floor to underneath the 5th met.

Today, two days after skiing, I get the soreness feeling in the calves more if I plantar flex the ankle, rather than dorsal flex.

Is this worth being concerned about? Or is this more a case of just first day skiing blues? Maybe I should just go ski more and see if it becomes a non-issue?

Thanks.
post #2 of 13
First day muscle soreness. Go for a walk, spin on a bike, hot tub, stretch, massage.... ski and repeat.

Hard to comment on fore/aft balance without seeing you ski.
post #3 of 13
Out of interest, were you using surface lifts (t-bar, poma) a lot?
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
No, but it was busy. Standing in lift line more than usual. Hmmm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
Out of interest, were you using surface lifts (t-bar, poma) a lot?
post #5 of 13
Was it easy or difficult to get pressure to the balls of your feet when skiing? Sounds like your dorsiflexion range of motion is on the hyper mobile end of the spectrum. You may want to increase the net forward lean of the boot by dropping the ramp angle of the boot board and/or increasing the forward lean of the cuff?

What bindings are on your skis? Are you finding it difficult to remain centered over your skis? What compensations are you having to make to find balance?
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
Was it easy or difficult to get pressure to the balls of your feet when skiing? Sounds like your dorsiflexion range of motion is on the hyper mobile end of the spectrum. You may want to increase the net forward lean of the boot by dropping the ramp angle of the boot board and/or increasing the forward lean of the cuff?

What bindings are on your skis? Are you finding it difficult to remain centered over your skis? What compensations are you having to make to find balance?
Bud,

When I recognize myself in the backseat, I am able to bring myself forward ok.

I have played around with lifting my toe, both in the boot (bontex shim under front of foot) and under the binding. I have not reached any definite conclusions yet.

My bindings have a significant delta, 7 mm. I am on Head FreeFlex Pro 11's (14 mm front stand height, 21 mm rear). My boot sole length is 295mm.

Given what you know,should I continue to experiment with:
  • using the velcro spoilers to increase fwd lean (I have not been using them)?
  • reduce ramp angle of boot board?
  • shim under the toe of the binding?
Thank you.
post #7 of 13

questions for you

So a few ??'s
1. how many days total on snow?
2. how many days total on boot?
3. were you involved in a pre-conditioning/conditioning program before you went on snow? (ie, gym)
4. what is your age? (or approxinate age)
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
1. how many days total on snow? This year? Only 1 so far.
2. how many days total on boot? Probably 20.
3. were you involved in a pre-conditioning/conditioning program before you went on snow? (ie, gym) Yes.
4. what is your age? 51.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz2boot View Post
So a few ??'s
1. how many days total on snow?
2. how many days total on boot?
3. were you involved in a pre-conditioning/conditioning program before you went on snow? (ie, gym)
4. what is your age? (or approxinate age)
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by trtaylor57 View Post
Bud,

My bindings have a significant delta, 7 mm. I am on Head FreeFlex Pro 11's (14 mm front stand height, 21 mm rear). My boot sole length is 295mm.

Given what you know,should I continue to experiment with:
  • using the velcro spoilers to increase fwd lean (I have not been using them)?
  • reduce ramp angle of boot board?
  • shim under the toe of the binding?
Thank you.
7mm stand height differential and a boot sole of 295 creates a pretty steep delta angle. Chances are you are having to ski in a squatty position with more pressure on the rear spoilers than on the tongues? I would experiment with shimming under the boot toe (externally).

Inside the boot you may need to create a greater net forward lean angle to match your dorsiflexion. This can be done by a combination of dropping the heel of the bootboard and/or shimming, as you mentioned, under the forefoot as well as adding the spoiler shims. I would caution you not to increase your forward lean any more before lifting under the toes externally as you will compound your current issues with the delta angle.

Wish I could see and help you in person.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by trtaylor57 View Post
1. how many days total on snow? This year? Only 1 so far.
2. how many days total on boot? Probably 20.
3. were you involved in a pre-conditioning/conditioning program before you went on snow? (ie, gym) Yes.
4. what is your age? 51.

One final ??

Did you experience this issue last season?

I'd keep the velcro spoilers out to allow for a more upright position and also to allow more space for blood flow and girth around the calf. Although the delta angle or ramp angle is steep, if you did not have these issues last season, then I wouldn't worry too much about that untill you rule out other causes.

There are a few possible explanations at this point, as it would occur to me.

1. DOMS - an acromym for Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, a condition that occurs after excercising a muscle vigouously. The intensity of pain increases up to 3 days post- exercise and is thought to be caused by a lactic acid build up that infuses into the muscle cells and is slow to dissipate.

2. During your training, you have increased the size of your calf muscle, otherwise known as Muscle Hypertrophy. Now that the muscle is bigger, the upper cuff of the boot is too small in circumference. Removing spoiler is the easiest soultiuon.

3. Your age. Now, not to sound disparaging, but after 50, the human body looses fast-twitch muscle fiber (the kind that produce power and speed) at an exponential rate, no matter how hard one works out. This factor may be acting in conjunction with the above mentioned factors so that your calf muscle is using more slow-twitch (postural) muscle rather than power muscle to generate movements necessary in skiing. Therefore, the "postural" muscle must act as "power" muscle causing soreness and stiffness.

4. You may be overflexing the boot and stretching your calf muscle also, so drop the bolt back in and see what happens.

A good stretching routine after you ski will surely reduce muscle soreness no matter what muscle group you are having issues with.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Yes, I do recall experiencing this last season. It ended up going away as the season progressed.

I skied the same boots last year, but I was on a pair of skis that had half the binding delta angle these do.

Thank you for your other ideas.

I don't feel as old as I am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz2boot View Post
One final ??

Did you experience this issue last season?

I'd keep the velcro spoilers out to allow for a more upright position and also to allow more space for blood flow and girth around the calf. Although the delta angle or ramp angle is steep, if you did not have these issues last season, then I wouldn't worry too much about that untill you rule out other causes.

There are a few possible explanations at this point, as it would occur to me.

1. DOMS - an acromym for Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, a condition that occurs after excercising a muscle vigouously. The intensity of pain increases up to 3 days post- exercise and is thought to be caused by a lactic acid build up that infuses into the muscle cells and is slow to dissipate.

2. During your training, you have increased the size of your calf muscle, otherwise known as Muscle Hypertrophy. Now that the muscle is bigger, the upper cuff of the boot is too small in circumference. Removing spoiler is the easiest soultiuon.

3. Your age. Now, not to sound disparaging, but after 50, the human body looses fast-twitch muscle fiber (the kind that produce power and speed) at an exponential rate, no matter how hard one works out. This factor may be acting in conjunction with the above mentioned factors so that your calf muscle is using more slow-twitch (postural) muscle rather than power muscle to generate movements necessary in skiing. Therefore, the "postural" muscle must act as "power" muscle causing soreness and stiffness.

4. You may be overflexing the boot and stretching your calf muscle also, so drop the bolt back in and see what happens.

A good stretching routine after you ski will surely reduce muscle soreness no matter what muscle group you are having issues with.
post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
PM sent

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
7mm stand height differential and a boot sole of 295 creates a pretty steep delta angle. Chances are you are having to ski in a squatty position with more pressure on the rear spoilers than on the tongues? I would experiment with shimming under the boot toe (externally).

Inside the boot you may need to create a greater net forward lean angle to match your dorsiflexion. This can be done by a combination of dropping the heel of the bootboard and/or shimming, as you mentioned, under the forefoot as well as adding the spoiler shims. I would caution you not to increase your forward lean any more before lifting under the toes externally as you will compound your current issues with the delta angle.

Wish I could see and help you in person.
post #13 of 13
I would say like Bud your problem is balancing and also agree with Matt that it is soreness due to first day. You are working on staying forward and of course a more forward position requires extra work from your calf muscles to keep you from tipping even further forward resulting in tiredness at end of day. It improves over time as your muscles get used to the extra work.

So the real question is why do you have to work on staying forward instead of easily able to balance there. Three big factors I would say in this order; boot ramp/binding delta, binding position, forward lean angle.

Bud has listed some things to try and they are right on. Try them and see what happens. I'm betting reducing binding ramp nails the problem.

Lou
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