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RE. 2003 Bears Clinic

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

John D is doing a poll to find out what topics the people are interested in but I have a question.

Would there be any intrest from anyone in doing a two or three day clinic with the same leader and clinic group. I'm thinking three days at three different resorts with a different focus each of the three days. There can be a lot of advantages to such a learning situation and the main drawback is that it doesn't promote social mixing on the slope but we will have the rest of the week for that .

Anyway, if there are any Bears interested I would love to lead such a group.



[ August 08, 2002, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Ydnar ]
post #2 of 19
I like that idea, Randy. I think the socializing can occur even in your proposed setting, it's just that it is secondary to the learning process.

Did you have more detailed thoughts on the subject?
post #3 of 19
At Fernie, most of the socializing was done at breakfast, sometimes lunch, Apres, and dinner. There's no way I was going to ski the same trails as those Powder Gods!

I like your idea, but more than one instructor should want to do that to be able to accomodate different levels.
post #4 of 19
Ydnar - If I were able to attend the Utah gathering, it sounds like that is exactly the format I would prefer.

I wouldn't want to spend several days concentrating just on bumps or the steeps or, for that matter, on any one specialized topic.

Personally, I would prefer more emphasis on fundamentals, and then using a variety of specific skiing situations or terrain (like these) to demonstate (a) how important the fundamentals actually are, and (b) get familiar applying the fundamentals to a variety of situations in our quest to become better, well-rounded skiers.

Tom / PM

PS - As usual, I won't have any idea if I can make it out to Utah for the Bearfest until much nearer the actual date, but I would sure love to come, tho.
post #5 of 19
A multiple mountain clinic is a great idea, BUT we've already been notified (at least unofficially) on another thread that we are not welcome to hold any clinics at Snowbird, and I presume that applies to Alta as well. We've also decided not to do any clinics without the permission of the ski area. Otherwise, I expected that clinics would be held for 2 days with the same groups and instructor, so extending to 3 days does not seem a big deal if everyone agrees.

BTW the poll I put up has been widely ignored for a couple of days. It was intended more to advance the organization of the clinics, than to control what the clinics would be. I think the sooner things are organised the more people can committ to be there. Does anyone have any ideas to move this along?
post #6 of 19
Ok, what am I missing? Where have we been notified that we cannot hold clinics at Snowbird??
post #7 of 19

If yo look in the general ski discussion forum under this http://www.epicski.com/cgi-bin/ultim...c;f=2;t=003557 url you will see where a Snowbird instructor started to jump all over Bob. What a joke, like we would publicly plan something underhanded.
post #8 of 19
Ydnar, I've already stated my preferences, but I'm ready for ANYthing that would improve my skiing. It seems that Solitude was supposed to be the place for the clinic, so why change it? Does Solitude have any objection to this? Do they have any knowledge of it, for that matter?
post #9 of 19

See my response to the guy. It kind of ticked me off.

SCSA.....where are you when we need you?
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Gonz et al,

Yes, I have lots of ideas about what to do for the three days.

One big thing is that over that kind of time period on hill alignment can be evaluated adjustments made and the results evaluated.

There are other things, like getting the most out of spending time on snow blades, that work better if the group has a longer time frame to work from.

Right now I'm just feeling out if there would be intrest in such a thing and with all of the above I guess that things are sort of up in limbo. Of course the three days could be done at one resort but as SLC is one of the few places that have so many resorts so close together I thought that a traveling clinic would be fun.


PS I would be willing to do this under the radar if necessary.
post #11 of 19
PhysicsMan--you've described exactly what I was suggesting elsewhere as a format for the camp. If it is to be an actual "camp," and actual event with a personality of its own, it cannot be simply a bunch instructors and a bunch of groups just out on their own, each with entirely its own agenda. That could be a good thing too, but it would not be a "camp."

Some sort of loose format, with a loose agenda such that everyone had an idea of what to expect before signing up, would make sense to me. While each participant and each group would have a unique experience, there should also be some shared common ground that ties the group together, that becomes the "signature" of the Barking Bears Camp, and that becomes a reason for it to grow in the future!

So some work on basic fundamentals, which then diverges into the varying special interests of each group, would make sense to me. I would suggest that for the first day, at least, each group works on essentially the same things, at the same resort, tailored to their level and formatted by the individual group and their instructor. Then as the days progress, the agenda could become less and less specified, as the groups pursue their diverse interests, and perhaps explore other resorts.

Finally, regarding Graydogg's concerns in the other thread (he's the Snowbird instructor referred to above), I didn't think he was so far out of line. Yes, obviously he could have presented himself a little better, but he is right to be concerned about "under the table" lessons--which, as I pointed out to him, has never been our intention here.

I'm on record saying that I think one of the biggest PROBLEMS in ski instruction today is these exclusive, anti-competitive rights that resorts have to conduct lessons. But that IS the case, at present, and any instructor who tries to teach "under the table" should EXPECT a severe backlash from those instructors playing it by the book. While I would love to see the laws change (think it would benefit students, instructors, and even the resorts that would fight it), woe be to anyone I catch teaching under the table at MY resort--as several have discovered. I sympathize with Graydogg's concerns, if not with his expression of them.

That said, a) I am not above a little underground teaching myself. Perhaps it's hypocritical, but I understand the risks, and I don't mind making a statement, especially if it were to help precipitate a change! And b) I do not think Graydogg is correct that Snowbird can restrict FREE "clinics." My idea of our Bears Camp is that the 3-4 days of professional instruction will take place at a resort that welcomes us. Then the general Bears Rendezvous takes over, where we all just ski and play together. This is just a group of friends skiing together. I'm sure that any instructors who are still there for the Rendezvous will be happy to continue to throw out ideas wherever appropriate. But no law that I'm aware of says that instructors can't ski with others EVER!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #12 of 19
absolutely right, Bob!

My coach gives me instruction all the time. He's not on the ski instruction staff. I'm not paying him. (well, that is, unless you count helping with ranch chores for 1-2 days/year as payment). Should his work with me be prohibited?

The idea that skiing is an "industry" is responsible for these backward, xenophobic attitudes. If ski areas want committed returning skiers, they shouldn't give a rat's arse about how the skier gets to be so committed, and that would include getting a "lesson" from a fellow skier who might also hold some type of certification.

As far as I'm concerned, the 2003 gathering should be able to include "clinics" or "instruction" wherever and whenever (but NOT however) we want. But I'm not affiliated with PSIA, PMTS or any other formal group of ski coaches or instructors, and I don't want any of the Bears Faculty to lose privileges as a result of their work at the 2003 Gathering.
post #13 of 19
Bob, shouldn't be hard to get sanctioned clinics on the hill at the Bird...Maggie Loring was just named SSD. She should accomodate! Boy, I wish I could go!
post #14 of 19

Sounds good. I'd be in for that.
post #15 of 19
Hey--congratulations, Maggie! I hadn't heard that. Wow--we got to play with Maggie here in the Rocky Mountain Division (PSIA) for a total of only one season! What's up with that?

Maggie--I guess this means you won't be sitting in on the RM Alpine Committee meetings anymore for a while, eh? Too bad--your input was very valuable, and I looked forward to working more with you.

So--can we come play with you at Snowbird?

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #16 of 19
Hi Y'all,

It's come to my attention that this is gearing towards upper level participants. If there are never - evers, or those not so confident that are interested in participating, I would be happy to organize some clinics for that level within the greater structure. Maybe some off snow clinics for statics, and addressing issues of trepidation for entry level skiers as well as pros who may not understand some of those issues. LM has spoken of a music clinic - how cool! (Personally I would like to tackle some off piste stuff with some of you as a participant. I am hoping that there will be enough time and personnel so that everything can be worked out for all to enjoy!)

Also, on a serious note, all the various threads regarding this event are riddled with wonderful ideas and issues. But it is, afterall, the middle of August already. Someone needs to take the helm (Maddog?) and set the event in stone. We have a date. Now - what about policies, procedures, scheduling, pricing (fees for the participants and possible perks to the pros), logistics, etc.
post #17 of 19
Well, as the only extremely low intermediate {under 50 days skiing in my entire life!} I may opt out if there is nobody else on my level. I do agree we need to get this a bit more settled. The frequent flyer tickets will be impossible to get pretty soon. Even if I don't clinic, I still want to meet up with everyone, and if there is a strong enough interest, do some ssort of fitness stuff.
post #18 of 19
oboe has certainly skied more that those fifty days [about 20-40 a season over ten years] but remains solidly in the third tier of a four tier intermediate pack, so not ALL clinic participants will be in the Bode Miller level.
post #19 of 19
I posted the message below in another, related thread, but thought it might make sense to repeat it here. Perhaps it would be useful to get a consensus on the workshop/camp format fairly soon?:

I tend to think Bob B's concept for the workshop might be the best. Rather than splitting the group into specialized areas of interest (moguls, carving, steeps, etc.), divide into workable-sized teams (say, 6 or so) by general ski ability. Each group would stay with the same coach (assuming compatibility).

After a preliminary outline of the overall goals of the workshop (applicable to all participants), each group would then spend several days learning (and/or reinforcing) the SAME FOUNDATIONS OF ALL GOOD SKIING (clearly defined and clarified in terms of approach in preliminary meetings among the group leaders to ensure consistency). The goal would be to allow particpants to then see how those foundations lend themselves to skiing varied terrain and fostering continued improvement in comfort level regardless of ability level.

The terrain skiied would differ according to the ability of each group, but the foundations would be the same for all. Discussions in the evening could focus on how (or, indeed whether) the foundations being taught, absorbed and applied ARE the same for all levels and conditions, analysis of video of partipants, equipment/tech talks, etc.

After the official camp ends, those who wished could then go explore nearby areas and apply what we've learned!

What do you think?
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