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PMGear Euro shipment delayed again. I want my BROS! - Page 2

post #31 of 355
you can always rely on Bob to cut through the BS.....
post #32 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyons View Post
Well, then you're clueless, and have never skied them. Volkl would not make these skis, because they would have to charge you $1500 for them. The ski giants are interested in cranking out mass production bullshit to appeal to the masses of gapers out there. Sure, outsource to China; stick a 3 way power switch on there, and sell it to some doctor for $1500. ******* pathetic, if you ask me. I'll take an aspen full wood core, hand wrapped with glass or carbon, layed on top of thick bomber P-tex bases and 2mm edges over some mass produced ski de jure ski any day.
Simmer down jong
Oh wait a minute you have damn near 1000 posts
My bad
Should I go back and read them all
or hit the mancave mount your pm gear carbon fiber Lhasa pows with those fine marker dukes binders?
WWAMD?
WWABD?
post #33 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Don't sugar-coat it like that, Canyons. How do you really feel?



I have to admit that I'm really in the dark on this one. Call me clueless. I've never been able to insert boot into binding on a pair of Bro's because no one sells them or demos them here.

I ski at a place that is home hill for quite a few pretty good skiers. Last season (by some measures, the most kickass season this ski area has ever seen), I did a running survey to see how many locals were skiing on PM Gear's gifts from heaven. I saw three pairs.

A fairly high percentage of the really hot skiers here are on Volkls. I just can't figure out how they do it.
you can't figure out they do it? C'mon Bob you are smarter than that, so what are you really trying to say?

It is not entirely fair to attempt to make a correlation between how many pairs of Bro's you've seen on ANY skiers (expert or beginner) at Jackson (or anywhere else for that matter) feet to how well they are made or to how well they may ski. I'm sure deep down you know this but your post above doesn't indicate that to me.

The production scale of Bro's is abosolutely tiny....500 pair a year maybe at max? We have no dealer network. We have no reps. We have no advertising or marketing budget. We don't even really try to throw skis to the magazines to try and get them into ski reviews. We don't have anyone traveling around in vans setting up demo days for people. We don't have a race team. We barely have a freeski team (although Ben Wheeler, former winner of the US Nationals at Snowbird is now skiing for us after he tried a pair last year and he left dynastar). Hell, with all of that being said, I'd be happy if a hot skier in Jackson just hears about us. But despite all that.....we have grown a little bit each year because people who took a risk on us generally like them. Those who don't like them (and of course, not everybody likes them, I'll be the first to admit that) usually don't because they might prefer a little more sidecut in their ski or some other personal preference reason which is just fine.

The reason you don't see them on more skiers feet is not a direct indication of how well they ski or how well they are made. Again, I'm sure you know this, so I'm surprised to read your post above that seems to indicate that because you don't see them on more people's feet in Jackson that they must be an inferior product.

How many Volkl dealers are there in Jackson Bob? How many PMgear dealers are there? I can not answer the first question, but I can tell you the answer to the second is a big resounding zero.

EDIT: Bob - Upon further reading of your post, I believe I misunderstood the "they" in your last line (I now see you have gone back and edited your post a bit for greater clarity.). I've probably taken your post a bit too personally. Sorry about that. I'm going to leave my post as is though because I still think some of the points in it are important.
post #34 of 355
It's nice to be spancered. ...or pay to have your skis receive stellar reviews by SKI and SKIING Magazines. Clearly, that type of advertising sells skis. I skied Volkls for over 25 years...everything from Volkl Zebras to G4s to Exploders to even 6*****. Sure, Volkl (in particular) makes some pretty good skis (Mantra, Gotama, GS race skis), but IMHO, they have sold out, along with all of the other ski system, chinese, massed produced giants.
Truly, I hope that one day you get to fondle (and play with) a pair of BROs. Big or small, you will come to realize what all the hype is about. Until then, you can't possibly know.

WWAMD? Hit the mancave and mount my handmade carbons
WWABD? Argue why Volkls are skied by the masses and BROs are not.
post #35 of 355
I personally have never understood people starting threads like these when they could have just as easily fired off an email to the company in question or better yet, picked up the phone and called the company directly.

One of the great things about small ski companies is that they are usually really responsive to email and phone calls.

I actually based my buying choices on a number of skis on whether or not the company responded to emails I sent them.

Over the last few seasons I have emailed AK, PM Gear, Scotty Bob, Prior, Armada, and Lib-Tech. All of them got back to me promptly and with the information I was looking for. In contrast I emailed Line about a dozen times and never heard a peep. You can probably guess which planks I didn't purchase.

At any rate, in the time you took to post this rant you probably could have contacted Tyrone or Splat and gotten a sufficient answer.

Not only that, but in the past if people's seasons had started and they were sans skis sometimes PM would send them blems or demo planks to tide them over until their new planks arrived.

Of course I would have to thing that starting a rant like this and whining in public doesn't do anything to curry favors...

Rant less, ski more. And next time go to the source first (again you could have contacted Tyrone here privately and he could have assisted you).

The bottomline is that you should have known what you were getting into. Small company, reduced resources, known for running behind schedule a bit, etc. But you exchange those inconveniences for a solid product, great customer service, and a pair of unique planks.

PS
I don't particularly like Bros (I've skied a few models, mostly in spring, slushy conditions), but I really like the folks who make them and have had some awesome days skiing with a number of them (or in the case of Tyrone, watching them ski and sharing a brew afterwards).

PPS
BKLYN skis Bros and Praxis exclusively and she has fine form. And she's from NYC. And she's not spancered.

PPPS
I will have to admit that I feel Bros are more of a West Coast thing at the moment...I see them mostly in Cali and Colo and a few in Utah. But then my perception is a bit skewed since I ski with a lot of Bro loving foolios.

PPPPS
Me, I'm sticking with Magnetraction for the time being.

PPPPPS
Bob, you should be able to swing some sort of demo deal and get on the Bros, I've never known a person skiiing them to turn down a request to try them (that's one of the coolest things about the folks who ride them is this sense of camaraderie and willingness to let people try their planks).

PPPPPPS
I have skied AK skis (the folks making some of the Bros) and will attest to their goodness. Loved the King Salmon and Bong once rode my No Ka Oi and enjoyed the heck out of it. Good planks.

post #36 of 355
Damit Splat said i was a rep or maybe that was pimp
I don't have 20 pair of bros cause I'm that good of a skier.
Does that mean I'm spancered?
I did win the snowbird beacon comp though fwiw.
Either way I want that damn Painter lodge will they trade for skis?
I'll throw in a Dimebag Dayrell guitar pick
C hows the http://wasatchpowderskis.com/ budget looking can we swing the lodge?
I want that lodge damnit.
post #37 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Don't sugar-coat it like that, Canyons. How do you really feel?



.

A fairly high percentage of the really hot skiers here are on Volkls. I just can't figure out how they manage to ski so well on mass-produced crap.
Bob,
It's simple. Wizzards can benefit from 10000 hours, the wand dosen't learn anything.
post #38 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
So.... Comparable to Movement or G3?
What about Stockli?
post #39 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
you can't figure out they do it? C'mon Bob you are smarter than that, so what are you really trying to say?

It is not entirely fair to attempt to make a correlation between how many pairs of Bro's you've seen on ANY skiers (expert or beginner) at Jackson (or anywhere else for that matter) feet to how well they are made or to how well they may ski. I'm sure deep down you know this but your post above doesn't indicate that to me.

The production scale of Bro's is abosolutely tiny....500 pair a year maybe at max? We have no dealer network. We have no reps. We have no advertising or marketing budget. We don't even really try to throw skis to the magazines to try and get them into ski reviews. We don't have anyone traveling around in vans setting up demo days for people. We don't have a race team. We barely have a freeski team (although Ben Wheeler, former winner of the US Nationals at Snowbird is now skiing for us after he tried a pair last year and he left dynastar). Hell, with all of that being said, I'd be happy if a hot skier in Jackson just hears about us. But despite all that.....we have grown a little bit each year because people who took a risk on us generally like them. Those who don't like them (and of course, not everybody likes them, I'll be the first to admit that) usually don't because they might prefer a little more sidecut in their ski or some other personal preference reason which is just fine.

The reason you don't see them on more skiers feet is not a direct indication of how well they ski or how well they are made. Again, I'm sure you know this, so I'm surprised to read your post above that seems to indicate that because you don't see them on more people's feet in Jackson that they must be an inferior product.

How many Volkl dealers are there in Jackson Bob? How many PMgear dealers are there? I can not answer the first question, but I can tell you the answer to the second is a big resounding zero.

EDIT: Bob - Upon further reading of your post, I believe I misunderstood the "they" in your last line (I now see you have gone back and edited your post a bit for greater clarity.). I've probably taken your post a bit too personally. Sorry about that. I'm going to leave my post as is though because I still think some of the points in it are important.
Tyrone, I do understand what you're getting at. I've heard great things about the Bros (I'm not sure what the other models are so I'm clueless there, too). I actually would dearly love to try a pair because I love to demo skis no matter what the brand. The only two people I know who ski Bros, great skiers by the way, don't have bindings that will fit my boots (believe me, I've tried).

My post was not meant at all to put down your skis and I'm sorry if it came across that way. My post was a reply to what *I* thought was Canyons' ridiculously simplistic rant about how none of the rest of us could possibly understand what's at stake here since we haven't skied on the skis. I happen to have an affiliation with a ski brand that *I* think is among the very best in the world, but I'm not deluded enough to think that my skis would magically transform Jackson Hole's best skiers into something orders of magnitude better than they already are.

It's interesting how the internet works.

Your brand has - deservedly - built up a very loyal and vocal customer base. A site like Epic can have an ENORMOUS influence on the buying decisions of avid skiers. When JayPowHound made what some Bro owners felt was an ill-considered public complaint, your admirers jumped to support PM Gear. I think that's great. It shows both the positive and negative power of the internet and it also shows the depth of the good will your company has built up among your customers. You MUST have a really great product for that many people to feel that strongly about it. That should make you and the other folks at PM Gear feel really good.

Having said that, I also think it's completely understandable that JayPowHound would pick a skiing forum to vent his frustration at not yet receiving the skis he so desperately lusts after. He certainly received a public spanking and I think he's taken it extremely well given the circumstances.

Someday I'm going to ski on a pair of your skis and then I'll know what all the excitement is about.
post #40 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
What about Stockli?
No no, obviously not a valid comparison. Those have umlauts.
post #41 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
My post was not meant at all to put down your skis and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
.

No worries....i definitely took it the wrong way and overreacted, which is why I added in my the "EDIT" at the bottom of my post above. Sent you a PM as well probably while you were in the middle typing your well thought out response here.

Quote:
Having said that, I also think it's completely understandable that JayPowHound would pick a skiing forum to vent his frustration at not yet receiving the skis he so desperately lusts after. He certainly received a public spanking and I think he's taken it extremely well given the circumstances.
Me too.

Quote:
Someday I'm going to ski on a pair of your skis and then I'll know what all the excitement is about.
BTW -- what is your BSL?
post #42 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
.

BTW -- what is your BSL?
Oh my God!

I have no idea what my BSL is. Is it too high? Is it too low? Is it gone? Should I be worried? Should I call my doctor? Is there a drug that will fix it for me?

I even worked in an industry that lived and breathed acronyms and I have no clue (see there, I'm clueless AGAIN) what BSL stands for. I even googled it and all I got was a bunch of sites about pit bulls.

I'm embarrassed and perplexed.

Please help.
post #43 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Oh my God!

I have no idea what my BSL is. Is it too high? Is it too low? Is it gone? Should I be worried? Should I call my doctor? Is there a drug that will fix it for me?

I even worked in an industry that lived and breathed acronyms and I have no clue (see there, I'm clueless AGAIN) what BSL stands for. I even googled it and all I got was a bunch of sites about pit bulls.

I'm embarrassed and perplexed.

Please help.
hahaa....you mean you haven't seen your doc recently about your BSL?

boot sole length
post #44 of 355
^

DAMN! Beat me to it! hahahaha
post #45 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
hahaa....you mean you haven't seen your doc recently about your BSL?

boot sole length
Gawd. Now I am REALLY embarrassed.

I'm 317.

Or is that my cholesterol?

Nope. Cholesterol has all the same numbers but not in that order.

317mm it is.
post #46 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
No no, obviously not a valid comparison. Those have umlauts.
I just can't shove the o under the umlaut '' Do I need more beer to manage the pain or should I just wait for my Bros like a good boy ? Or do I need to enjoy a bacon sammich with a couple PBR's to wash it down with ? I'll take the BLT skip the PBR and have a Moosedrool instead and hope for some snow soon between Montana and good ol Liberty Lake

Pat will take care of us . I will enjoy them when I get them . No worries here.

Your sig line DoWork is helping me get by in the mean time.
post #47 of 355
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Having said that, I also think it's completely understandable that JayPowHound would pick a skiing forum to vent his frustration at not yet receiving the skis he so desperately lusts after. He certainly received a public spanking and I think he's taken it extremely well given the circumstances.
Maybe I like spankings...
post #48 of 355
I'd love a pair of Lhasa's and I'd love to support people doing what they love, but there is a tremendous amount of unhinged fanboyism in this thread.

I won't be buying PMGear skis anytime soon because, to their credit, they sell everything they make. I've never paid MAP for a ski, let alone the manufacturer's list price. Good for PMGear for developing a fanbase that will pay a premium for nice skis with a great story.

Some of the crap directed at the OP for simply, gasp, expecting a business to meet its obligations....the mind boggles.
post #49 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I've never paid MAP for a ski, let alone the manufacturer's list price. Good for PMGear for developing a fanbase that will pay a premium for nice skis with a great story.
I gave that idea some thought but I'll also offer a counterpoint.

Isn't the MSRP for a pair of Bros about $600-700?

I just noticed the other day that the MSRP for one of my favorite skis (built in the Alps, sandwich construction, built like and skis like a tank) is $910. Like you, almost nobody pays MSRP for it, but a price of around $600 would be pretty good for a ski like that in relatively high demand.

Maybe full boat for a PM Gear ski isn't such a horrible deal?
post #50 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
I gave that idea some thought but I'll also offer a counterpoint.

Isn't the MSRP for a pair of Bros about $600-700?

I just noticed the other day that the MSRP for one of my favorite skis (built in the Alps, sandwich construction, built like and skis like a tank) is $910. Like you, almost nobody pays MSRP for it, but a price of around $600 would be pretty good for a ski like that in relatively high demand.

Maybe full boat for a PM Gear ski isn't such a horrible deal?

IF you can actually get them

Why reward bad behavior?

Deliver on what you promise or pay the price
post #51 of 355
Their prices are very similar to MAP prices for "mass produced" skis (though the volume moved in skis similar to 196 Lhasas is pretty small for everyone) so yes, I think they represent a very good value. I certainly wouldn't view them as expensive.

I'd suggest that a lot of the folks buying Bros would traditionally have available to them some "bro" deals, and a lot of these folks probably don't pay anything near MAP for skis very often.
post #52 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Gawd. Now I am REALLY embarrassed.

I'm 317.

Or is that my cholesterol?

Nope. Cholesterol has all the same numbers but not in that order.

317mm it is.
Your Cholesterol is 713
post #53 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Some of the crap directed at the OP for simply, gasp, expecting a business to meet its obligations....the mind boggles.
My crap was directed at the OP taking up his issues with PM Gear in a public forum rather than having called them directly.

Taking up issues of this nature in a public forum should only be done after all other options have been exhausted (i.e. contacting the company via email, phone, snail mail, contacting folks who are involved with the company--Tyrone, for example--etc.).

I would have posted the same response had the OP's thread been "Volkl/Head/Rossi/K2/insert name of any ski manufacturer here Euro Shipment delayed again. I want my SKIS!"

As for the fanboy love of the skis, I think that comes from the enthusiasm of all involved from Splat on down to Tyrone. These guys love skiiing, they love making skis, they love getting out and getting some. They also attempt to involve folks in the making and designing of the ski, asking for feedback, bringing demo models out to local hills, setting up a network of demo centers (which are basically devoted fans willing to lug a bunch of skis to their local resort and let people ride 'em), it's all really grassroots and makes the folks who buy the skis feel like they're part of the company, part of a movement, if you will. Few major companies offer that kind of experience.

Additionally, I've ridden and/or drank beer with a few of the Bro heads and they're a passionate, fun-loving bunch of guys. Their product doesn't particularly speak to my skiing style, but their philosophy and attitude definitely do. That and a number of good skiing friends happen to ride Bros and love 'em, so they seem to make a nifty product in my eyes, even if I don't quite see it myself (i mean i see it, the skis are purdy and sturdy, they just don't fit my style of skiing).



So, yeah, i'm a Bro Fanboy who doesn't ski their skis!
post #54 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Your Cholesterol is 713
Sinews of steel, veins of rock.
post #55 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Your Cholesterol is 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Sinews of steel, veins of rock.
Too low.

731 was another of the choices.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any idea what the world record (living) high cholesterol would be?
post #56 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
My crap was directed at the OP taking up his issues with PM Gear in a public forum rather than having called them directly.
Yeah I agree with you on that point for sure. I think your theory on those who are responsive to communication is great.
post #57 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Speaking of which, does anyone have any idea what the world record (living) high cholesterol would be?
geeze....I wonder if Guiness's phones are ringing off the hook with people trying to beat THAT record?
post #58 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Some of the crap directed at the OP for simply, gasp, expecting a business to meet its obligations....the mind boggles.
If it had been any other ski besides the Bro this thread would have gotten a much different response.
post #59 of 355
This thread like 7/8 of the threads here needs stoke







That's a start Call it fanboyism if you want. We refer to it as getting with the BROgram
post #60 of 355
Stockli is bomber...no doubt about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post
What about Stockli?
Mr. Peters, I'm next door in UT. Maybe, I can send you a pair of BROs for you to demo. Otherwise, this season, if you're in my neighborhood, you can take a pair or two of mine for a spin.
And while I think that this forum needs "ridiculously simplistic rant[s]" once in awhile, I will stand by my point that in recent years, Volkl has returned to the pack of mainstream manufacturers that are providing the public with product that is woefully inferior to the likes of PM Gear, DPS and Praxis.
The only reason that we started this venture is to allow the public to experience firsthand what quality skis are currently out there in the marketplace.
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