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Collision at Brighton - Page 2

post #31 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugaree View Post
That's horrible nd a night mare, as well.

Getting air is a blast. When will riders and skiers learn to have a spotter. I mean getting blind air is like passing on a curve on the highway.

Totally irresponsible.

Hope your wife is o.k. with minimum fear added.
I made this same point in talking with the Brighton staff. If one of the group and come down to the rollover and spotted there wouldn't have been a problem. Of course, continuing to ride down the greens and easy blues at high speed with intersecting trails still presents an issue.
post #32 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Re: refunds.

IANAL, but I don't see how refunding the ticket constitutes admitting responsibility. Anyway, in most states (Utah and Michigan in particular) there are specific laws that apply to ski areas which are different than other activities, such as bike racing.
It wasn't the refund that was the implicit admission of responsibility it was the statement to the effect that: "yes, we have a real problem with unsafe riders in the early season and limited terrain open."
post #33 of 56
Si, I'm sorry for detracting from this thread. I understand and am happy that they treated you well. Further, I'm encouraged that the seem to have an intent to improve the safety due to this situation.

Hope your lovely bride is feeling okay today, and that she gets some more grins on the slopes soon.
post #34 of 56
Si, I'm sorry for what happened to your wife. It's an inherent risk of the sport and I'm glad she wasn't seriously injured. Hopefully she'll keep skiing and not be permanently spooked.

That being said I've been to Brighton 3x this year so far and enjoyed it. The terrain is fairly well groomed, there's a decent amount of made snow, and it's been fairly empty when I've gone (albiet mostly on weekdays). Opening day was a blast with a lot of power to be found.

A lot less of the mountain at Solitude is open was my impression. My experience so far has been that it's an icy mess due to a relative lack of snowmaking and not enough natural snow.

So I say good on Brighton for refunding the money, regardless of whether it was deserved or not. Still, IMO, there's more for beginner and intermediate skiiers at Brighton right now than there is at Solitude. The problem is there's almost no advanced/expert terrain open right now at either. For that LCC is in order.

Off to Snowbird I go...
post #35 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
Wow, Si. I missed the transition from GF/SO to spouse. Congratulations!!

Sorry to hear about the collisions and injury. Hopefully your return to sliding with her in a more comfortable environment will be the lasting memory rather than the scare.
Thanks Kneale,

We got married up at Lake Solitude this summer. I guess I could post some pictures but it would just be another trip report with pictures of people standing around . We did, however, have a female moose and her yearling join us (in the lake) for the event, so I guess there was some aspect of wildlife photography (which nobody seems to complain about) . Also, one of the Solitude avalanche dogs (Chaco) was our ring bearer and I guess dog pics are well received as well .

BTW, Bob Peters took some great pictures that are viewable on the web. Pop me an email if you're interested in viewing them.
post #36 of 56
SI - I didn't want to sound like a jerk. The resort or patrollers should ensure that people are skiing responsibly on a blue / green run. It is nice of them to offer a refund, would have been nicer if they would have addressed the root problem.

Since you're around Michigan, you know how some of our hills can get with young skiiers doing the same thing. Can't compare it to Brighton, but I've seen ski patrol taking the kind of behavior you described very seriously around here.

Anyways, glad it worked out in the end. Still hope she's eager to keep skiing. I wouldn't put it past my wife to give up the sport if that happened to her.

TrekChick - The MX promoters that contract our ambulance all summer only give refunds in extreme situations. Maintenance problems, injures, you're out of luck once the gate drops. I've seen them be nice and let someone race free the next day if the break down the first lap of practice, but that's about it. They are pretty good at removing obnoxious and dangerous riders, making it as safe as possible for everyone else.
post #37 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronix View Post
Si, I'm sorry for what happened to your wife. It's an inherent risk of the sport and I'm glad she wasn't seriously injured. Hopefully she'll keep skiing and not be permanently spooked.

That being said I've been to Brighton 3x this year so far and enjoyed it. The terrain is fairly well groomed, there's a decent amount of made snow, and it's been fairly empty when I've gone (albiet mostly on weekdays). Opening day was a blast with a lot of power to be found.

A lot less of the mountain at Solitude is open was my impression. My experience so far has been that it's an icy mess due to a relative lack of snowmaking and not enough natural snow.

So I say good on Brighton for refunding the money, regardless of whether it was deserved or not. Still, IMO, there's more for beginner and intermediate skiiers at Brighton right now than there is at Solitude. The problem is there's almost no advanced/expert terrain open right now at either. For that LCC is in order.

Off to Snowbird I go...
All, very true. We went over to Brighton for this very reason. The bottom line is that for my wife (and probably others) the right trade-off between safety and terrain was Solitude. This will be a dead issue soon I hope when traditional Utah dumps come in.
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
I wish that was true. My wife tweaked a knee due to an unreleased binding last winter on her 2nd run of the day. One binding had a different DIN set than the other three - and when I asked, they said there was no correction noted, and that the bindings "tested out fine". BS. They didn't even test them, as they wouldn't give me the post-accident test.

We asked if they would comp a ticket or rental - they would give us neither. I was a season pass holder - way to treat your target customer. Same area -- I had an early season back injury last year. I had purchased a season pass and had not used it yet. I asked for credit for the next season as I was probabloy not ging to be able to ski much if at all. They basically told me "Too bad, that's your problem". The equivalent of the big middle finger. I got to use the pass about 6-8 times last winter, and I don't know that it paid for itself.

Welch Village in MN if anyone wonders.

Si, sorry about your wife. I know what she's feeling, because my wife is in the same boat. I hope I can get her to come out again. With that said, "boys will be boys", and it's not just the ski slopes that this kind of attitude is present. But I see it in some skiers as well. It's not only limited to boarders.
My experience is just the opposite, the one time in close to 20 years we decided to by passes (ASC Bronze) I used mine for one run---during the hunt for participants in the great "learn how to poach with Hiwaystar" day at Kton a few years ago. Could not find anyone, so i went home after just the one run.

Bonni had not used hers at all.

Bonni broke her leg while on a PNW Ski Crawl 1.

I was bummed, figuring that that one run was going to cost over 700 bucks.

I just presented our case to Killington and Mt Snow (for some reason we bought the passes from two different areas) and got full refunds of the season pass costs!

and to Treks point, some areas hand out comps, when asked, for injured customers. We do it --- but ski patrol has to do the asking---usually because it is a kid or a pleasant patient---or somthing like Si's incident wher the goodwill is more improtant than the ticket revenue.
post #39 of 56
Bachelor sent out an email recently.

"Colliding with a skier below you will result in suspension of lift and mountain privileges for 30 days. If injuries result the term of the suspension may be increased, up to and including termination of privileges for the remainder of the current season, without refund, plus the following season."
post #40 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emtnate View Post
.... SI - I didn't want to sound like a jerk. ...
No worries. I don't have a problem with anyone voicing their opinion. I wouldn't have posted this otherwise.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Si View Post
It wasn't the refund that was the implicit admission of responsibility it was the statement to the effect that: "yes, we have a real problem with unsafe riders in the early season and limited terrain open."
Recognizing that a problem exists is not the same thing as admitting responsibility for it. For instance, if there's an ice storm that turns the hill into a tilted curling rink, saying "yeah, it's a sheet of ice out there, I don't blame you for quitting after one run." is not the same thing as admitting responsibility for the poor conditions or whatever injuries may occur as a result.

It's entirely reasonable for a resort to give a refund for bad conditions, especially if the customer requests it early in the day. That's very different than admitting liability if someone hurts themself.

Now, that said, the resort can't control the weather, but they can exercise some control of the people on it. That doesn't make them responsible for every action of every person on the hill, but they should make some attempt to enforce the skier's code.

BTW, I've skied at Brighton (both of them, actually) on several occasions and never been hit. I have been hit from above at Solitude (no damage, fortunately)
post #42 of 56
Brighton is the young snowboarder hill in SLC, it is advertised that way and has the highest percentage of boarders on any hill I have ever been on. Unfortunately, I don't think the OP's experience is that extraordinary at Brighton. There are a half dozen other ski areas around SLC, so there is no good reason for skiers to go to Brighton. I will never go back back there.

I had a bad feeling before I even got there when I noticed the billboard on the back of the shuttle bus up BCC said, "The Pow Pow is Schwank at Brighton."
post #43 of 56
This is why I'm so glad there is a place like Alta. You can ski and not have to worry about getting picked off.
post #44 of 56
It seems to me that if a resort only has 3 or 4 runs open at the beginning of the season, the smart thing to do would be to post some ski patrollers at the top, middle and bottom of each of the runs to monitor the traffic. I skied at Breck a couple of times this season (just for a couple of runs because of the crowds and people skiing and boarding way too fast). Several friends have been nailed by people going too fast for the conditions.
The ski patrol presence would not cost the resort much and I think it would cut down on the problems and they could yank passes if necessary.

I am sure this post will bring on the posts by many of the people who think they are great skiers and can "ski fast" in control. However, it does not take much to catch an edge and with the larger number of people on a small amount of terrain, the odds of crashing in to someone is much greater that later on in the season where there is more terrain open.
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

I had a bad feeling before I even got there when I noticed the billboard on the back of the shuttle bus up BCC said, "The Pow Pow is Schwank at Brighton."
"It means Fun"
Glad the better 1/2 is okay SI. Good that she got back out
Let me know if you need an "I Know" bumper sticker.
Good seeing you the other day and congrats again
post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Si View Post
So, should they offer a special precautionary statement when you purchase a ticket?
Probably. Many do. I frequently see signs to the effect of "expert skiing and boarding available only" early season, even when the terrain open is nominally beginner terrain.
Quote:
If not, should they offer a refund if you find the conditions untenable after a run (or two)?
Lots of places do this as a matter of customer service policy. It seems like a good idea.
Quote:
The tickets were refunded without hesitation because he agreed that conditions were not safe for a low intermediate on groomed green and easy blue runs and that the accident was a result of that.
It is all a matter of degree. This kind of thing happens all the time even midwinter with tons of terrain open. I certainly worry less about collisions when I'm cruising around in expert terrain than intermediate terrain, and that goes for just about every ski area I'm familiar with all year long.

The early season WROD does seem to imply greater risk. Conventional wisdom refers to it as the White Ribbon of Death for good reason. You are right that there is an aspect of pent up testosterone. Early season WROD'ing can be very scary in many place IME. Unfortunately I don't think there are any easy solutions here, though I'd certainly lay most blame on skiers/snowboarders before management. People show up and do intensely stupid things at a high rate early in the season in ways not easily controlled by patrol or management IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
Unfortunately, I don't think the OP's experience is that extraordinary at Brighton.
It isn't extraordinary anywhere. A very similar thing happened to a friend in the middle of February last year on a clear weekday. Solitude is IMO the extraordinary place...I'm a huge fan of those places where skiing has somehow remained mellow over the years.

The email from Bachelor sounds reasonable.

I'm of the opinion that these unfortunate situations are more frequent at those hills with a strong snowboarding presence, and I'm not afraid to be called a bigot for that opinion. The consequences are just too serious to worry about being PC. I'd strongly suggest Alta over Brighton to beginning skiers.
post #47 of 56
Si,

Sorry to hear about your incident. Both you and and your wife get major props from me. You...for focusing on what was REALLY important which was her status and safety. I might have let my anger bubble over in a way that would have been less focused on her but you managed to stay cool and do the right thing. Major props to her for getting back on that horse and not letting a couple of major league wankers to not intimidate her and suck away her budding excitement about the sport. Its just like driving, its typically not the responsible people on the road who take the big risks...its the others out there that don't care about the safety of others. Facing fear takes courage and she demonstrated that in spades...I could learn something from her.

Cheers
post #48 of 56
I was skiing at A-Basin a couple of weeks ago, and one of our skiers got hit hard by a snowboarder straightlining down the mountain. Our skier didn't turn, and the snowboarder said that he thought he would turn. Duh. Another skier had been hit hard by a snowboarder who said, "you were where I wanted to go." I frequently ski at a ski area with the same owner as Brighton, different regional manager, and the ski patrol is never enforcing safety rules on the hill. They do avalanche control, check signs and fences, and pick up wrecks when called, otherwise we never see them. They never "patrol."

Know the difference between a snowboard and a vacuum cleaner?...the method of attaching the dirt bag.
post #49 of 56
Your wife is a real trooper. And I hope those boarders got caught and banned. They definitely need to be taught a lesson to be more careful.
post #50 of 56
Dude if you can teach your wife 1/2 as well as you taught your daughter

You got it made
post #51 of 56
I'm really sorry to hear about your bad experience. I don't think the problem is specifically with boarders. I was terrified for most of the day at Sundance while taking a PSIA assesment. I and members of our group had many close encounters with young skiers and boarders with no sence of ettiquette or responsiblity. Sometimes things happen by accident, mostly these things can be avoided by following the code. I think that many people coming into the sport aren't taught these things. Years ago I guy that I knew killed a little girl at JH. He went over a roll over at high speed with a load of Boo and she was right there lieing on the snow. He was injured and she was killed instantly. These things do happen. I'm always a little nervous below the rollovers because I remember what happened.
post #52 of 56
Whoa! Sorry to hear about your bride Si. That totally sucks.

It was nice of Brighton to refund the tickets, but by then it was likely too late to do anything else. It can be really hard for the patrol to run down the reckless after the fact, especially if they're feeling guilty and change jackets or just split. Personally, I would have had to struggle with the urge to get western on their asses.

The best solution is active patrol presence on the hill. Does Brighton have an "auxiliary" or some kind of patrol group that does nothing else but provide non-medical on-hill 'safety guidance'? Lots of hills have those people, who don't get caught up in the full patrol responses but watch for, and address, trouble. Brighton management may be responsive to providing that if they don't already.

And I hesitate to profile ski areas, but Brighton mostly seems suited as a good place to end a fine ski tour.

Best wishes to your wife.
post #53 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
Whoa! Sorry to hear about your bride Si. That totally sucks.

It was nice of Brighton to refund the tickets, but by then it was likely too late to do anything else. It can be really hard for the patrol to run down the reckless after the fact, especially if they're feeling guilty and change jackets or just split. Personally, I would have had to struggle with the urge to get western on their asses.

The best solution is active patrol presence on the hill. Does Brighton have an "auxiliary" or some kind of patrol group that does nothing else but provide non-medical on-hill 'safety guidance'? Lots of hills have those people, who don't get caught up in the full patrol responses but watch for, and address, trouble. Brighton management may be responsive to providing that if they don't already.

And I hesitate to profile ski areas, but Brighton mostly seems suited as a good place to end a fine ski tour.

Best wishes to your wife.
Bob, gotta admit that I speak highly of Brighton when talking about ending a tour there and hitching a free ride up Millicent to ski back to Solitude. Haven't done that for a while, though, and I wonder if they still do that?
post #54 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
Dude if you can teach your wife 1/2 as well as you taught your daughter

You got it made
Yeah, she can ski OK Whips her dad skinning and climbing, as well. As for my lady, she certainly is making pretty nice turns for someone at that level of experience. It's a real pleasure for me to watch/ski with either of them.
post #55 of 56
Wives Rule
I let mine wear the pants in the family
So I can wear gortex bibs every day
post #56 of 56
Sorry to hear about your wife, at least the wasn't seriously hurt.

Like many here, I have an experience with a hit and run.

12 years ago my mom was hit by a skier on a green run (mid season) at lake louise. The guy was going fast enough that he broke his bindings in the collision. My mom was briefly knocked out, broke her coller bone and i think fractured her shoulder blade.

The guy was middle aged, and a skier.

He was pretty helpful, but his wife was bitch, yelling at my mom for cutting her husband off.

My mother was never a strong skier, but she liked the outdoors. Like many weak skiers, her turns were more jerky than fluid, so I understand how an uphill skier could misjudge her path.

Still, there is no excuse for being out of control, or skiing this fast on a green run. A designated slow area at that!

Patrollers were helpful but the guy walked away when they came. Patrollers aren't cops, so I don't blame them for not stopping the guy, especially since their focus was on helping my mother.
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