New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Paid for lining up?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I have a friend who works part-time at a ski area in the east... REALLY.

(S)he only gets paid when (s)he teaches. (S)he does not get paid for line ups.

On weekends, (s)he is expected to show up for line ups five times a day - 9 am, 10 am, noon, 1:30 pm and 3:30 pm.

They are told that they must show up at least ten minutes early and they are expected to wait in line up for up to 20 minutes. If they are late, they get the hairy eyeball and a disparraging remark.

If they do not get a lesson, they are allowed to free-ski until the next lineup.

Recently, the area has added two more lineups. If you don't get a lesson at 10 am, you are expected to show up at 11 am and if you don't get a lesson at noon, you are expected to show up at 12:30 pm.

This new requirement has become quite distressing for this person who has enjoyed instructing for the last four seasons.

Of course they get a free pass and can ski free anytime they are not on duty. That opportunity is limited because they have a full-time job, live quite a ways away from the area and have kids.

I guess the glamour is now gone for my friend and it has turned into a job for them. It's too bad.

Do other ski areas follow this practice of not paying instructors for the time spent in line ups?

If not, what is the practice at those areas that do pay the instructors.
post #2 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiprob View Post
I have a friend who works part-time at a ski area in the east... REALLY.

(S)he only gets paid when (s)he teaches. (S)he does not get paid for line ups.

On weekends, (s)he is expected to show up for line ups five times a day - 9 am, 10 am, noon, 1:30 pm and 3:30 pm.

They are told that they must show up at least ten minutes early and they are expected to wait in line up for up to 20 minutes. If they are late, they get the hairy eyeball and a disparraging remark.

If they do not get a lesson, they are allowed to free-ski until the next lineup.

Recently, the area has added two more lineups. If you don't get a lesson at 10 am, you are expected to show up at 11 am and if you don't get a lesson at noon, you are expected to show up at 12:30 pm.

This new requirement has become quite distressing for this person who has enjoyed instructing for the last four seasons.

Of course they get a free pass and can ski free anytime they are not on duty. That opportunity is limited because they have a full-time job, live quite a ways away from the area and have kids.

I guess the glamour is now gone for my friend and it has turned into a job for them. It's too bad.

Do other ski areas follow this practice of not paying instructors for the time spent in line ups?

If not, what is the practice at those areas that do pay the instructors.
Almost all small resorts do this as far as I know. The larger one ironical are better to work at, pay more and almost always pay show up to instructors.


showing up ten minutes early and staying 20 minutes late is excessive. When I worked at a smaller resort I'd show up right on time volunteer to teach to make sure I didnt stand around and wait for a lesson. Its also make it so you have the time after the lesson to free ski no matter what.

the other trick I would do was when I started to volunteer for the job noone ever wanted they stated to give me privates. If the private start at 9:10. I would cough cough miss 10am line up

If I was your friend I would find another resort to work at that let people

A. teach one day be off the other on the weekend.
B. one that pays show up
c. stop working as a ski teacher.

If I was working part time as ski instructor A and/or B would be my requirements especially if they didnt have night skiing. If not I ll pay for a pass its not worth the hassle of standing around. I hate standing around.
post #3 of 19
As Bushwacker says, most large ski schools, or at least, most ski schools at large resorts, pay "show up" or "standby" pay, minimal though it usually is. It's pretty common for small resorts not to, although I suspect that the practice probably wouldn't hold up to close legal scrutiny....

Best regards,
Bob
post #4 of 19
Sounds to me like the staffing supervisor needs to be a little more creative with their scheduling.

I don't think their are a lot of part time instructors who do it for the money & sadly many good ones give it up because of the wasted time. As BB stated, if management had a policy of show-up pay, they would learn to manage a little better.
JF
post #5 of 19
skiprob, my heart aches for your friend
post #6 of 19
SkiProb, you've been missed.
post #7 of 19
Eastern Small School....not sure for FT employees, but PT employees, no paid line ups. 20 minutes would be nice, I have stood for upwards of 30 on the same schedule.

Last year our area adopted "immediate lessons" for beginners on busy days...meaning as soon as 8-10 folks can be lined up, they go. Once in line up, you stand there until needed. Again only busy days. And only the number of instructors they think they will need....which is usually everyone on those days.

They will also (sometimes) do an A B thing....1/2 of you show up at next line up, the other at the following lineup....very slow days.
post #8 of 19
I used to get paid 1/4 hour per lineup at a hill in CT. Early in the season they expected everbody to show up 5-10 minutes early and missing enough lineups would get you on regular beginner 12 year old duty; miss too many and you're gone. They expected everybody to wait until the official end of lineup time to leave (or a bit after).

Later in the season, especially on slow days, they relaxed standards a lot as long as you were consistent and reliable.

Of course, I was making 50 cents over minimum wage, so that 15 minutes of lineup pay wouldn't buy a candybar at the "lodge"!
post #9 of 19
skiprob,

We have 4 lineups a day. 9:00, 10:00, 12:15 and 2:15. We don't get paid for lining up, but the full timers are usually the only ones that may get asked to wait as stand by.

RW
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post
As Bushwacker says, most large ski schools, or at least, most ski schools at large resorts, pay "show up" or "standby" pay, minimal though it usually is. It's pretty common for small resorts not to, although I suspect that the practice probably wouldn't hold up to close legal scrutiny....

Best regards,
Bob
I agree, it is hard to imagine this is legal. I used to work in the restaurant industry, and the way people sometimes handled situations like this (illegal conditions of employment that you don't feel like you can complain about without losing the job) was to keep careful records, and then go to the authorities (such as a state labor board) after you leave the job anyway. I heard of people getting decent settlements for a couple of years of unpaid overtime.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiprob View Post
Do other ski areas follow this practice of not paying instructors for the time spent in line ups?

If not, what is the practice at those areas that do pay the instructors.
At our area an instructor is paid a show up amount which more than covers travel expenses for the day. This is paid only if the instructor doesn't make more than this show up amount by giving lessons. We are asked to be at line up 10 minutes before the advertised lesson times in order to mingle with guests who arrive and begin communicating and establishing rapport. The lessons generally go out promptly and perhaps one or two instructors are asked to remain for a short time in case of late arrivals. Since we know exactly how many students have registered and paid for the lessons we have a good idea if there will be late-shows. We are not paid specifically for showing up at line ups.
Your area's protocol seems harsh and would be difficult to accept.
post #12 of 19
Despite the fact that in most cases it is illegal, it is regularly done. We don't get any show up pay or line up pay. If I don't like it, I'm perfectly capable of getting a different job. I really can't say I'm in favor of any of those labor laws, including minimum wage.
post #13 of 19
Oh, and 7 or even 5 lineups a day is ridiculous. I would quit.
post #14 of 19
Sounds like the place I worked at back in ME...

Your friend should quit now before (s)he looses any more money...
post #15 of 19
Your friend should write to the office of labor standards in the state where the ski area is located. Find out if unpaid show-up time can be required. Find out if retaliation for not showing-up will be dealt with by the authorities and how to document that. She doesn't have to use the response, but she should know where things stand.

I agree with some of the others...show up when she wants and ski when she wants. The management doesn't know if she went home or skis, so show for a couple, then split. Or, show up for every other line up, whatever seems to be a reasonable compromise. What are the other part-timers doing, except grumbling?
post #16 of 19
We do 2 line ups a day. We are expected to be no less than 10 min early and typically hang out for at least 15-30 after line up when there is no lesson. We get paid 1/4 hr at minimum wage (not instructor wage) for each line up. It is annoying that 2 line ups will consume 90 minutes of time that I get paid 1/2 hr at minimum wage for. It won't buy bus fare or a cup of coffee. It is however part of the deal and it isn't really constructive to whine about it. I would probably quit if we had 5.
post #17 of 19

Lineups

Ski Prob. Wow that many lineups, ugh.

Homewood Ski Resort tahoe, if you were scheduled to work you got showup pay. 2 lineups a day

Silver Mt. Idaho. No show up pay even if you were required/shcedules to work. Lineups varied of the years depending on who was running school. varied from 2 per day to 4 and 30min at each which was way too much time spent doing nothing.

Me too, burned out standing in lineup for 30 mins, no lessons, and watching my friends go powder skiing. Quit

Also without showup pay I was losing too much $ on gas and food etc. Sort of too bad as I always loved to teach but I love powder/lst tracks too. Powder won.
post #18 of 19
I guess I'm lucky I work at a mountain where the supervisors treat the coaches well.

During the day, we have two main line-ups at 10:30 and 1:00 for all levels. There are additional beginner lineups put on the board as needed. There may be beginner lessons every fifteen minutes on a crowded weekend. You are expected to make lineup but the supervisor are very good about not wasting your time. About five minutes after line up the supervisor usually just says "go ski" but will ask a few individuals to swing back in after one run in case there were any late-arriving students. That works real well. We have an intermediate detachable quad right by the line up area. So, it's easy to check back in after one run. The way it's run, they get instructors when they are needed and instructors get to ski when they are not needed.

We get one hour of show up pay if we work a shift and don't get any lessons. But, that happens for me maybe one day a season on a rainy weekday night.
post #19 of 19
As you've heard from others, the lack of show-up pay is pretty common in many cases. However, seven lineups a day (and even 5) is really excessive. If it were me I'd be seriously considering going somewhere else. Even on a small hill, 5 lineups pretty much eliminates any free-skiing benefits given the early arrival and waiting around time.

It's highly unlikely that the show-up pay will change without government or legal intervention, but if a group of instructors got together and talked with management, maybe something could be worked out about the number of lineups - a split schedule or something of that nature.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching