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Killy vs Bogner vs Degre 7 - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post
Thanks for the opinions guys, but I was hoping to get an opinion from someone who really knows their stuff, anyone who works in a ski shop or a rep for a ski clothing manufacturer. Killy and Bogner and especially Degre 7 are well respected in Europe, just because in North America they do not have alot or any advertising does not mean they are an inferior product, everyone who I have spoken with in the industry in telling me that their build quality is second to none, same with Eider, I just don't like the look of Eider, it looks like Helly Hansen and Arc'teryx. Just not my style that's all. I was hoping that someone would answer if they had one of the above jackets and could let me know about their build quality, their technical merits, ie) whether they work or not, and how long do they last?
Yea what would I know, I only have 20 years in the ski industry taught full time, coached a private school race team, manage a shop that currently carries Killy, used to carry Bogner (quite heavily) and at one time actually owned a Degree 7 jacket. You asked for opinions and you got them. FYI I could wear/buy any jacket I might want, but I choose to wear certain brands based on their tech, build, looks and how well the particular brand supports smaller shops. Right now I use DNA for the above reasons. Killy is a poor seller for us, but we still bring them in, just in small numbers. For me they are WAY too warm, but that's just me. I also do not care to be lumped in with the typical person who buys that stuff.
post #32 of 58
Great thread!

Can some of the Bogner/Killy fans let the rest of know about some of the characteristics of their jackets? What fabric are they made of? Are 100% of seams taped (assuming that matters given the fabrics in play)? Any full or significant depth penetrations by metal components - snaps, doodads, etc? Any non sealed stitching or embroidering penetrations? Any exposed metal zippers?

Just curious...
post #33 of 58
Thread Starter 
Enjoying all of the input from fellow bears, I have done some research on Killy and their jackets have 20,000 measurements for both breathability and weatherproofness, laser cut pockets, fully taped seams, knitted lycra cuffs with thumb holes, pre-shaped elbows, come with a balaclava (first jacket I have seen that), and all the regular stuff such as removal hood, google wipe cloth, non-slip band on powder skirt, inside hood pocket. The Killy seems to use the Dermizax 4-way stretch material that just about everyone else uses. I am not saying that I that every jacket in the Killy/Bogner line appeals to me. There are some very simple and straight forward black jackets/pants that appeal to me, I am not talking about the colourful jackets with fur attached to them or anything of that nature. I really am not offended that people are basically calling me a gaper due to the labels that I am trying to get information about, would you call Wayne Wong a gaper?, look at what the hell he wears half the time.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post
Thanks for the opinions guys, but I was hoping to get an opinion from someone who really knows their stuff, anyone who works in a ski shop or a rep for a ski clothing manufacturer. Killy and Bogner and especially Degre 7 are well respected in Europe, just because in North America they do not have alot or any advertising does not mean they are an inferior product, everyone who I have spoken with in the industry in telling me that their build quality is second to none, same with Eider, I just don't like the look of Eider, it looks like Helly Hansen and Arc'teryx. Just not my style that's all. I was hoping that someone would answer if they had one of the above jackets and could let me know about their build quality, their technical merits, ie) whether they work or not, and how long do they last?
(I'm totaly legit : : I'm euro, I usualy ski with a Eider hardshell or a Arc'teryx softshell and Degré 7 or Schoeffel pants. My family owns or recently ownned clothes by Eider, Arc'teryx, Degré 7, Schoeffel, Haglofs, Millet, Killy etc. And I think I did stay at a holliday inn once.)

Bogner is not respected in europe. It's considered as overpriced and ugly gear aimed at americans (or german Nascar fans...). It's a joke here too.



Killy makes very good gear but is totally overpriced. (And I know quite well Killy flagship store in Val d'Isère. The prices are insulting). Save your $ for Arc'teryx.

Degré 7 is not what it used to be. (Muleski has it right). It now makes average quality gear at a good price. Fair value for money, on the cheap side of the equation. Better for kids. I own a degré 7 pant that's very meh (I bought it because it was tall but it doesn't breathe well, the zippers suck and the lining is always twisted) and my 6 years old daughter has a jacket + pant from their kids line which are really nice, considering the price.

If you're looking for high quality euro gear, consider Millet, Kjus, Schoeffel, Haglofs, Norrona or Eider...
Eider is great value for money IMO. Not on par with Arc'teryx, but very good nonetheless and much cheaper (where I live anyway). haglofs and Schoeffel are ugly but top notch quality stuff. Kjus and Norrona are faultless.
For women, Eider and Scott makes great jackets, with nice fabrics bonded over technical membrane
Ski makers clothes are quite good too. Salomon and Rossi makes (or brand) very nice technical wear.
post #35 of 58
Thanks for the comedy!
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post
Enjoying all of the input from fellow bears, I have done some research on Killy and their jackets... come with a balaclava (first jacket I have seen that)...
FYI, Kjus jackets do as well, though you already said that they were out.

CJ
post #37 of 58
Thread Starter 
I have been checking around and I can get a Killy jacket for about $560 CDN or about $450 USD for the top of the line model that is just a solid black jacket. Everyone here on Bears who has experience with Killy has said that it is really well made. So I guess I am going with Killy. I checked out the websites for Goldwin, Halti, and Millet, not really my style and way too similar looking to Descente, Kjus, Spyder for my liking. I guess everything is way overpriced in Val d'Isere as that jacket would be 350 Euros by conversion, that is not a bad price for a decent jacket. It is funny how some items are alot more expensive in their respective countries, take Dale of Norway for example, I just purchased my gf a sweater for about $400 CDN up at Tremblant and the person who was assisting us said that in Norway it would be similar to $500+ for the exact same product.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
Bogner is not respected in europe. It's considered as overpriced and ugly gear aimed at americans (or german Nascar fans...). It's a joke here too.
I coulda swore France was in Europe.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post
Does anyone have any experience with these manufacturers, I have skied in Descente, Spyder, Phenix, Patagonia, and Karbon, but I am looking for something different than what everyone else has along with a little bit of style thrown in for good measure. I used to wear Degre 7 about 15 years ago and then the company disappeared from the north american market and then it completely disappeared everywhere and now it is back but I am having difficulty looking any retail ski stores that carry the line, anyone know of where I can get it in North America. As well how is the build quality of Killy and Bogner? I know about Kjus but anybody with some cash will be wearing this product as it is everywhere now. Thanks

I think this is a question for Chaos.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post
a Killy jacket for about $560 CDN or about $450 USD for the top of the line model that is just a solid black jacket.
I may have made fun of your style a wee bit (at least in my head, sorry the B word makes me cringe), but a top of the line jacket in plain black is my kinda jacket. I paid around $400 Us back in the mid 90s for again a top of the line all black jacket, but made by Marmot. Still have that jacket and it is warm as hell, only use it on the coldest nights, strange though no powder skirt. So $450 in 2008 is not that bad.

So I guess I'm trying to say nice find, plain black is a classic that never goes out of style. I hate styles, but do appreciate style, albeit not as much as function, I'm willing to bet your jacket will have both.
post #41 of 58
You could consider Millet, very high end French brand, European fit, but I don't know if it's exactly your style. May be too similar to Arcteryx, but definitely worth checking out. www.milletusa.com
post #42 of 58
I suggested Millet to him a while ago. Thanks for the link, as I wasn't sure that they were still in the US. I know it's been tough sledding, despite the quality of the product. I think it fits what was among his first stated goals, to be unique. Killy's not so unique! This whole thing cracks me up. We should have taken a poll as to what he'd buy based on the first post. Clearly Killy all the way, IMO.

To each his own. I'm a function over form, and buy on deep sale kind of guy.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I coulda swore France was in Europe.
Uh ?
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
Uh ?
Yeah, I think he was being facetious. The guy he quoted said that Bogner is laughed it in Europe, but, don't know me on this, but from the context I am getting that Bogner is a French company. Therefore the guy is saying, "how is it laughed at in Europe, when it is made in France, a European country."
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderracer393 View Post
Yeah, I think he was being facetious. The guy he quoted said that Bogner is laughed it in Europe, but, don't know me on this, but from the context I am getting that Bogner is a French company. Therefore the guy is saying, "how is it laughed at in Europe, when it is made in France, a European country."
Nope I'm pretty sure it is because:

Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR
Bogner is not respected in europe. It's considered as overpriced and ugly gear aimed at americans (or german Nascar fans...). It's a joke here too.
As in, hey Phillipe, you are in France right? France is part of Europe right??

The again, what do I know, I'm just a stupid American...
post #46 of 58
Hmm, "the guy" is Jer, so you never know...
Bogner is a German brand (founded by Willy Bogner, a former ski racer).
So, yes, it's made and mocked in Europe, at the same time.
We, sophisticated euros, sometimes indulge in self-depreciating humour...

Edit : Dumpy ? That would be exergasia, right ?
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpy View Post
As in, hey Phillipe, you are in France right? France is part of Europe right??
Yeah - what he said.

Quote:
The again, what do I know, I'm just a stupid American...
See - that's why I was asking. My HS geography teacher told me that France was a European country, but for all I know he was pulling my leg.
post #48 of 58
Geography?

Governor Palin to the white courtesy phone please...
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Geography?

Governor Palin to the white courtesy phone please...
Let it go, bro....let it go.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by philippeR View Post
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Edit : Dumpy ? That would be exergasia, right ?

Yup I had to look that one up on Wikipedia, I'll admit it.

From the way I understand exergasia (having know the word for ~45 seconds), no. France and Europe are different, although Europe does encompass France. As in all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are square.

Where as exergasia means the exact same concept repeated in a different way. Although I guess that pointing out how many different locales Bogner is gaper wear in may be considered a marginal form of exergasia.

Time to head over to the dictionary.com forums to talk skiing.
post #51 of 58

Ok So I've been a big fan of KJUS but agree with you OP - Its nice to wear something that is different from what everyone else has on the mountain. I bought a Bogner last season, I'm a young guy, and got alot of funny looks on the mountain. Its amazing how offended people get by seeing Bogner its as if you are not 'cool' or somehow theres something wrong with you. But thats the problem with the mountains- everyone trying to impress others by looking cool rather than having any real style or ability . Its very much a snowboard mentality - trying to fit in rather than what I believe skiing is about - having your own individual style and doing what feels right for you. This goes for technique and how you like to ski the mountain. Bogner is the ultimate 'I dont care what you think I'm comfortable and happy with what I do' brand, and if its on the way out, even more reason to wear it because then you can be an individual rather than worrying about what others and jumping onto so they can feel like they fit in on the slopes.

 

Lets leave the trend following and judgement on what others wear to school children and let talent and unique style be the true quality of what makes a great skiier. I go to the mountain to ski not to worry about what to wear!

post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by robruf View Post

Killy and Bogner have been in the ski wear industry for a long time and they are extremely well respected by rich gapers who have no idea they're being laughed at by literally every single person around them.  

 

 

 

FIFY

 

 

 

This gaper is awesome.  Favorite new member?  Probably.  

 

 

 

OP I'm going to fight the urge to make fun of you from here on out and give you the honest recommendation of looking into Bergans and Norrona in the hopes that you won't leave.  

post #53 of 58

Certainly wins the daily award for resurrecting a 5+ year old thread just to tell us how he's a big of Kjus.  Just another gaperboy with too much money to spend on clothes so he can be a legend in his own mind.  Until he gets on the snow anyway.:rotflmao:

post #54 of 58
I'm waiting for neon to come back.
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post

I'm waiting for neon to come back.

post #56 of 58
Who cares if it's 5 year old thread or even older. History certainly repeats itself. Why reinvent the wheel, when it can be recycled...

I personally think fashion has its place in skiing. In my opinion, Bogner looks pretty stylish on pics, less so in person. A local Sports Chalet carries some, but I have a problem paying $1000+ on Bogner clothes that are made in China, even for something I really like, which I'm yet to come across. On the other hand, I DID pay $75 for a pair of marked down Bogner pants for my wife last spring, which I didn't have any problem with.

I personally like Spyder and Descente ski clothes. I think they make great ski clothes, both functional and stylish.
post #57 of 58
.
post #58 of 58
You should consider KTM jackets from Austria, not many people would have them and you could also use it riding a motorcycle
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