or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › with a rocker,how to decide which sidecut?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

with a rocker,how to decide which sidecut?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
i like the rocker idea. but how do i decide between reverse sidecut (powder only?)and side-cut underfoot ?

i know one should demo,but these skis are often not available, and where would gear swap be without purchasing mistakes to stimulate the economy?
post #2 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke walker View Post
i like the rocker idea. but how do i decide between reverse sidecut (powder only?)and side-cut underfoot ?
I think you just answered your question.

Don't give a damn about skiing hardpack/groomers? = reverse/rocker.

Care about groomer/hardpack performance for some weird reason? = traditional sidecut/rocker.

Also - you can demo all sorts of freaky skis here: http://www.wasatchpowderskis.com/
post #3 of 23
The Spatula was the only true reverse/reverse ski. The likes of the ARG, JJ and some Praxis and DPS have minimal sidecut underfoot, just enough to get you back on the groomers. But the Hellbent has fairly average sidecut for a ski in its length. Personally I don't think it makes that much difference on groomers, there is so little of the ski on the snow at any time, whether the tips and tails flare out or in is irrrelevant if they are not touching the snow. In powder however there should be more difference. I have only ever skied the Hellbent which I own and love but I wonder if I am tailriding too much and would have a more centered stance on something like the ARG.
post #4 of 23
Some of these hybrids (arg, maven, S7,JJ) are being purchased because the skiers think they'll like the center-of-pivot in front of their foot... not necessarily for groomer performance.

Tha'ts me, anyway. Not that I've ridden my Maven yet. Nor do I intend to answer your question... just throwing another factor into the debate.

Another factor is traversing. I traverse A LOT for my trees. Traditional sidecut allows the ski to bend and propel you forward in a traverse if the tail is used properly.

Another factor is simplicity. Meaning- it's going to be pretty hard to find a powder ski in today's market that you don't like skiing on in powder.

Traditional sidecut, however, can get hooky at high speeds making it difficult to shut-it-down. Not that Kuros would be unfun by anyone's standards.
post #5 of 23
Kiwi- the Praxis Powders are true reverse-reverse. They make other models now that have some sidecut, but not those.
post #6 of 23

a kick-ass deal that I just couldn't resist

If you're ready to pull the trigger pronto, you can snag a pair of the Powders for $500 or The Protest for $550 (prices include shipping within the US/Canada) during the Praxis two day sale that ends tomorrow.


http://praxisskis.com/praxis-ski-sho...&category_id=3
post #7 of 23
That is a very splendid deal.
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 

thanks for the suggestions

and one more?............do you add any length to your usual size?
btw,im afraid that is a 2 ski sale,not a 2 day sale
post #9 of 23
Here's the email I got this morning announcing the sale:

Quote:
Happy Thanksgiving Rick,

We are offering a 2-day special on “The Protest” of $549.99 – that’s a $250 dollar savings, so I wanted to shoot an email to anyone that has inquired about that ski in the past few months. Please let us know if you have any additional questions. Here is a link for more details!

http://praxisskis.com/praxis-ski-sho...&category_id=1

Thanksgiving Holiday Special! - 2 Days Only!

(Nov. 27th & 28th, while they last)

"The Protest" - $549.00 including a FREE Tabke poster

SAVE $250.00 - Regular price is $799.99

Only 10 Pair Available to ship Dec. 15th - ACT NOW!

International Shipping rate of $120

FREE shipping in USA & Canada

Kindest Regards,

Melissa McHone
Sales/Marketing Director
Praxis Skis
530-448-9941
And here's what it says on the Praxis home page:

Thanksgiving Holiday Special - 2 Days Only!
(Nov. 27th & 28th, while they last)
"The Protest" - $549.00 including a FREE Tabke poster
SAVE $250.00 - Regular price $799.99
Only 10 Pair Available to ship Dec. 15th - ACT NOW!

Click on the skis above!
post #10 of 23
Easy. Buy Lhasa Pow. Unwrap. Mount bindings. Ski everywhere. Thank DoWork. Live happily ever after.
post #11 of 23
I have skied a bunch on the spats when they first can out. They are the best thing for pure powder only. Very little can touch them for that. But they are a all mnt as a 155 SL race ski. one trick pony. Yes you can get down a groomed run (just like you can ski powder with a 155 SL ski) but it is just not that much fun.
I'm not in the heli industry anymore, so I have gone to the 4frnt EHP. Tad sidecut (40m) and flat camber. 90% as good in pure powder, but still skiable on hill during and after a poweder day.
post #12 of 23
Sounds like you need the new Armada JJ with reverse camber, reverse double sidecut "elf shoe technology" if you want to cover all the bases.
post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 

i was about to say thanks ,im up to speed on the subject...i did some more research...

but then mudfoot mentions
"elf shoe technology"



do i gotta get an elf shoe now too? who makes 'em? will they be hard to find before christmas?
post #14 of 23
I just became a Protest owner...
post #15 of 23
126-138-115-133-121, and yes that's all on the same ski.

Double rocker, double reverse sidecut, reverse camber. It's the future Dude!

http://www.armadaskis.com/product/skis/jpju.php
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
126-138-115-133-121, and yes that's all on the same ski.

Double rocker, double reverse sidecut, reverse camber. It's the future Dude!

http://www.armadaskis.com/product/skis/jpju.php
Isn't the S7 also double everything?

Answer to the OP from another neophyte: After combing through what feels like every review ever written about every rockered ski, and skied a few, have come to the conclusion that there's WAY too much emphasis on the magical properties of a few mm more or less rocker or camber or sidecut, and not enough on good engineering of flex pattern and quality construction. There's a reason that companies as diverse as Volkl, Scott, K2, Atomic, DPS, and PM all make bomber powder skis, and it ain't that they've discovered the One Shape To Rule Them All...
post #17 of 23
The S7 is arguably a hybrid in terms of both camber & sidecut (although closer to conventional than some). It has conventional camber & sidecut underfoot. And has significant "early taper" along with rocker - especially in front.
post #18 of 23
Is it just my cynical imagination or are most of the companies making rockered skis now trying to modify them to ski more like conventional skis because a fully rockered ski doesn't really work for area skiing? The leading edge is definitely beyond rocker and into the "hybrid" area as Spindrift has noted. It'll be interesting to see if things like Armada's "elf shoe technology" actually produce a ski that is practical in more than very limited snow conditions.

I've got a conventional "powder ski" (Watea 101) with minimal sidecut, turned up tail, and virtually zero camber that works fantasitc in powder and reasonably well in all other conditions. It seems to me that if I go to a serious rocker I'll gain powder and bad snow performance at the expense of everything else. I agree with Beyond's analysis. If you give me a well constructed ski with the right flex pattern I can usually make it do what I want in any snow condtion or terrain, regardless of sidecut, so IMO the magic properties of rocker mainly come into play in pretty limited circumstances (bad snow conditions, very tight trees, or endless bottomless powder).

There is no question a fat rockered ski like the Pontoons can allow you to ski really bad snow conditions reasonably well that are virtually unskiable on convential skis, but that's usually the last place I want to be most of the time. It seems to me that rockered skis are a specialty tool that they are now trying to make less special because they are currently not practical for 95% of skiers. Until they get it figured out, I'm still looking for a conventional type ski with a little tip rocker to increase funky snow performace rather than a de-rockered (multiple sidecut) ski trying to increase hard snow performance, but who knows, maybe elf shoes really are the future.
post #19 of 23
Im not answering which ski to get but here is one argument for a rockered ski. Low angle powder. Long after everything else has been skied out rockered skis let you get into some of the low angle powder stashes and just have a blast. trees that wouldnt be skiable are a blast. I know this isnt tgr but most everyone here is a quiver skier, so why not throw a rockered into the mix.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptex1 View Post
Im not answering which ski to get but here is one argument for a rockered ski. Low angle powder. Long after everything else has been skied out rockered skis let you get into some of the low angle powder stashes and just have a blast. trees that wouldnt be skiable are a blast. I know this isnt tgr but most everyone here is a quiver skier, so why not throw a rockered into the mix.
+1 I got a pair of praxis powders to harvest low angle pow and so I don't get stuck on flat run outs so much.

The other obvious reason to go full reverse / reverse is to buy a turn in pow or funky snow. Just becuase YOU (or I) can ski any board in pow or crust doesn't mean anyone can ski just any ski in deep pow or crust.
post #21 of 23
K2 Obsethed might not be a bad option. I've heard they still have enough effective edge to rail on the groomers, but the mini rocker still kills the powder and helps in the crud.

Something from PM gear, ie: Lhasa Pow might be good. Although I wonder if they would be as durable as say the K2 Obsethed..
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptex1 View Post
Im not answering which ski to get but here is one argument for a rockered ski. Low angle powder. Long after everything else has been skied out rockered skis let you get into some of the low angle powder stashes and just have a blast. trees that wouldnt be skiable are a blast. I know this isnt tgr but most everyone here is a quiver skier, so why not throw a rockered into the mix.
No kidding. My Huge Troubles aren't rockered (instead they are simply zero camber) but man, they rock in the low-angle trees that I could never otherwise ski without getting stuck. The nice thing about the HT is that they still ski like a normal ski in most places (except groomers, if you try to give 'em high edge angles they do very weird things). Its great, as I can ski them all day if there is fresh snow or even crud to be found. They are pretty adequte in all conditions except for groomers. Some of the more radical rockers out there are slightly superior in deep, untracked snow, but if you are skiing in-bounds, how many untracked runs are you likely to get?
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbkr View Post
Something from PM gear, ie: Lhasa Pow might be good. Although I wonder if they would be as durable as say the K2 Obsethed..


Do you try to be ignorant, because you are a pro. . .
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › with a rocker,how to decide which sidecut?