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Atomic binding... too much forward pressure ?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I just picked up some used skis and had to move the heel piece all the way back for my boot to fit in. Here's what it looks like...

post #2 of 25
depends on the atomic vintage. Need to see the whole binding as well.

odds are you what that back screw (assuming that is what the pic is showing) flush with the plastic housing.
post #3 of 25
Correct!
post #4 of 25
Did you just adjust with the distance screw on the heel? looks like you just need to move the connecting starp between the toe and heel back a couple of settings first. There are different poitions depending on the boot size
post #5 of 25
Are they are Atomic 412s or 614s? If so, there are two screws in the back of the heel piece. One is forward postion and one is forward pressure. The pressure screw should be flush or 1 or 2 "clicks" recessed. If it is one of those bindings they have a well documented problem of not staying tight if they have not been adjusted properly. If you adjust the forward pressure just once with a boot in the binding you can strip the threads on the screw. Once that happens you will forever have pre-release problems because the forward pressure will not stay adjusted.

You must take the boots out of the binding, adjust the forward pressure, put them back in and check the screw postion, take boots out, adjust again, and repeat until you get the forward pressure right. Chances are someone along the line adjusted them with the boots in and stripped the screws. If that did happen you probably need to scrap the bindings and get new ones. I believe the only way to tell is to ski them and see if you come flying out all the time.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
I probably should have been in bed last night instead of posting a pic of the DIN adjustment screw... the bindings are the 614's. I will have the correct picture up shortly.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
I moved the heel piece back by backing out the bottom screw, then I locked the boot in and that's where I'm at now. The middle screw is for the DIN and the allen head on the right I'm not sure.

btw, what is the part that sometimes breaks on these.



post #8 of 25
You should see the forward pressure screw moving relative to the binding when you click the boot into place.
post #9 of 25
If the bottom picture is with the boot in place then it looks right. The "correct" position is to have the screw flush with the housing but you will find a lot of people prefer to have a little bit extra forward pressure with the screw just recessed as you show
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks, the last picture is with the boot locked in. I might end up moving the binding although I probably don't need to. In it's location now and the 3 positions that it can slide on the ski... extreme, all around and speed... the mark on the boot is 3/16" in front of the mark on the ski in the extreme position, 5/16" behind on all around and about 7/8" behind on speed.
post #11 of 25
Sounds like you might want to adjust the connector band. It is a 30 second job. Remove the crew on the center plastic plate, lift off and move to teh position marked on teh multihole strap to the size marked for your boot.
post #12 of 25
I agree with ScotsSkier. The first step is to set the binding for your boot sole length using the big vertical screw in the middle under your boot. It sounds like this adjustment was set up for a smaller boot than yours, hence your boots are too far back. When this is done the all-around middle postion should result in the midsole mark on your boots being very close to the midsole mark on your ski. Then set the forward pressure adjustment (without the boot in the bindings). Because of where your are starting from, the forward pressure adjustment may be way off once you adjust for proper boot length. On the slopes you can then use the big switch on the toe piece to easily move the bindings back for powder or forward for moguals if you feel the need.
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the heads up guys I hadn't realized til ScotsSkier mentioned the screw and connector band and that it's an easy adjustment. I don't have the correct screwdriver so things are on hold for the moment.
post #14 of 25
Once you remove the center screw and plate there should be a little window on each side corresponding to the heel and toe pieces. You need to adjust both sides so your boot sole length appears in the windows.
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
Once you remove the center screw and plate there should be a little window on each side corresponding to the heel and toe pieces. You need to adjust both sides so your boot sole length appears in the windows.
I took the plate off and moved the strap one hole over. This only slid the heel piece back. It looks like there are two ways I could move the toe forward... take out the two screws on each side of the strap and slide the lifter plate forward then drill new holes in the ski or take out the three screws holding the toe on, move it forward and drill new holes in the lifter plate. I'm satisfied with the way things are so I don't think I'll do either.




post #16 of 25
You must do the band adjustment with the binding in the all-around position. And you must have the binding track plates installed in the correct holes in the plate!

Next you must set the band to the lower 10MM mark. for instance if your boot sole length is 301 to 309 you set the band to 300. If you are say 317 you set the band to 310.

You also must set the toepiece height on this binding.

I can explain that further if you are not familair with the process. let me know!

Contrary to what Mudfoot said there are no little windows on the band setting procedure. That only applies on the Neox and Centro's. This is a Race 6.14

Once you have the forward pressure set properly (adjsutment screw flush with the housing when boot in binding) Remove the boot and turn screw in 1-2 clicks.

the allen screw on the heel piece is nothing you ever use. it holds internal parts in place.

What is your Boot sole length in MM's?

I would also highly recommend lubricating the mounting plate tracks for both the toe and heel. I use Holmenkol binding lube. But any waterproff grease i believe will work. The toe track in your pic looks very dry. Once the heel band is is removed from the toe bind the heel piece assembly simpy slides out of the track.

http://www.holmenkol.net/cartproduct...ding&ref=41 5
post #17 of 25
Sorry, I have the 614 Race and the newer NEOX version, have adjusted both of them myself, and confused the windows, but in either case you do need to get the length bands adjusted to your boot sole length before you start messing with the forward pressure. I am certainly no binding expert, and you are obviously in more competent hands with Atomicman. After seeing your last post I was going to refer you to someone more knowledgeable, so he showed up right on cue.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
Sorry, I have the 614 Race and the newer NEOX version, have adjusted both of them myself, and confused the windows, but in either case you do need to get the length bands adjusted to your boot sole length before you start messing with the forward pressure. I am certainly no binding expert, and you are obviously in more competent hands with Atomicman. After seeing your last post I was going to refer you to someone more knowledgeable, so he showed up right on cue.
I was not trying to be critical. I knew you just got confused between the two. And yes you still have to adjust the band correctly.

I have mounted tons of Race & Neox bindings and they both have their quirks!!

Toe height is also crucial with the Race Series. The Neox is self-adjusting.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
You must do the band adjustment with the binding in the all-around position.
can't remember what position I had them in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
And you must have the binding track plates installed in the correct holes in the plate!
I didn't remove the binding plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Next you must set the band to the lower 10MM mark. for instance if your boot sole length is 301 to 309 you set the band to 300. If you are say 317 you set the band to 310.
my BSL is 305 so I set it on 300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
You also must set the toepiece height on this binding.

I can explain that further if you are not familair with the process. let me know!
haven't touched this... lmk please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Once you have the forward pressure set properly (adjsutment screw flush with the housing when boot in binding) Remove the boot and turn screw in 1-2 clicks.
I have it flush now... should I see if I pre release first or is it a given that I will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
the allen screw on the heel piece is nothing you ever use. it holds internal parts in place.
thought so



Thanks a whole bunch for your help
post #20 of 25
OK, you're making progress.

The problem is that I don't what size boot the other person had or even if they I did I don't know for sure that they mounted them in the correct holes in the plate.

In regard to the toe height: every boot is slightly different in sole thickness and they also change with wear. So again, the guy who had these before you almost certainly had a different thickness of his boot sole then yours. So the toe height must be adjusted to operate properly. it must have a .5mm gap between your bootsole and the raised area that serves as the anti.friction plate.

What ski is the binding going on?
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
The skis are the Fischer RC4 world cup... the bindings were set for a 295 BSL. I checked the toe height with my boot and there's zero space between the sole and the anti friction pad. I backed off the screw 1 turn and can just barely slide a Vitamin Shoppe store card under there.
post #22 of 25
Okay. I think you should set everything up for you boot like you have with the band set at 300 and the binding set to the allaround postion. You set the forward pressure as we have described. The use the variozone adjustment(binding postion adjustment on toe) to line up the Boot sole center mark to the ski centerline. There are actually 5 positions on the binding,

if in fact you cannot get the boot sole center where you want you will ahve to redrill the plate for this binding.

Although you could also try setting both toepiece to a variozone setting farther forward then all-around and setting the band to 290 and then adjusting the forward pressure. this would also move you forward on the ski. i would try going with 300 at allaround and then adjusting the whole shooting match forward with the variozone adjustment first and only go to these other options if you can't get that satisfactorily line dup.

the problem is that with the smaller BSL on the original mount and your 10mm larger boot you are going to be too far back on the ski. So you must compensate for this by moving the things forward by one of these methods.

In order to adjust the toe height you are on the right track. You must use a credit card that is really close to .5mm.

Put the card on the AFD then lock your boot into the binding. Now hold the ski in front of the toepiece and reef backwards on the cuff of your boot sort of trying to pull the boot toe up in the binding.

Check to see how much frcition there is now when trying to remove the credit card.

If it comes out way too easily, remove the boot turn the adjustment screw to lower the toe wings some then replace the card, lock in the boot and crank backwards on the cuff again . Check the pressure again by pulling on the card. You want it so you have to use a fair amount of effort to remove the card but able to barely get it out. You are just trying to get that gap equal to the card thickness.

Keep up this routine until the card can just be pulled out with a fair amount of effort but it will come out.

Hope this is understandable.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier357 View Post
I have it flush now... should I see if I pre release first or is it a given that I will

thought so


Definetly go in a click or 2 after removing the boot.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
The second position out of the five puts my boot right on the ski's mark. With the way I ski I don't think even being back a little more will be a problem.

The Vitamin Shoppe card was .762 mm but I have a Best Buy card that's .508 mm so I'll use that.

And I will take your advice on setting the forward pressure.


Thank you very much Atomicman,

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier357 View Post
The second position out of the five puts my boot right on the ski's mark. With the way I ski I don't think even being back a little more will be a problem.

The Vitamin Shoppe card was .762 mm but I have a Best Buy card that's .508 mm so I'll use that.

And I will take your advice on setting the forward pressure.


Thank you very much Atomicman,

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me
Sounds like ya got it dialed!!! happy to help.

Have a great season!
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