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# Is There A Perfect Turn ?

Intrinsic in the manner in which the question is posed, the answer is probably "NO" from a philosphic perspective.

But in the real and measurable world it probably is the same answer !

Here is my take on it:

1. Two footed skiing or having weight on both skis, we know the turn is changing constantly as the turn progresses. In some turns, if there ever is the equal weighting of both skis, it is only for an instant.

2. Turn shape is suppose to be an arc [ a portion of a circle or elipse.] Isn't that what the shaped skis are all about ? The turn shape is already built into the ski? Is the turn shape a constant arc ? Due to slope angle, snow conditions, balance and weighting adjustments, the arc of the turn, really is one that is constantly changing shape during a turn.

3. What about the turn shape of both skis ? If the arc of the turn is constantly changing its shape, are we at least skiing parallel turn shapes provided we are skiing equally weighted skis? In other words, is the arc of the turn of my uphill ski going to be exactly the same as my downhill ski ? Well maybe, but only for an instant, and you will not able to tell when that very, very brief moment happens.

4. At best we can have a mental concept of what the "perfect turn" or what our own specifc "perfect turns" should be, knowing that it is not attainable, at least as described above.

5. The mental image of a "perfect turn " is translated into dynamic physical action that attempts to create, what in our mind at that moment, may be the "perfect turn." In fact it will never be a perfect turn. But the mental image allows us to strive for that unattainable perfection.

6. The "perfect turn" could also be the "perfect attempt" in striving to take our own mental image of the "perfect turn," and create it on the snow. Therefore, if all our turns are not perfect, what's the point ? Ski turn shapes are constantly changing, so imperfect turn shapes are just fine.

7. Sometimes the "true" and more meaningful perfection is in the striving for same, knowing and understanding that true perfection is very allusive, and probably impossible to obtain.

Doesn't taking time in attempting to achieve perfection, make us all better skiers ? And...
Wink, perfection is something that can only be determined after the fact. A perfect turn is a turn that gets you where you are going effiently without any hickups.

So yesterday as I watched a Warren Miller film on OLN I saw skiers coming down terrain that was so steep that they set off avalanches and every turn was a hop turn with both skis coming out of the snow and the turn being made in the air and coming down facing the other way, the skis didn't turn on the snow at all.

Those were perfect turns because they were the only turns that kept the skier in control. I mentioned this because perfect turns have nothing to do with weight distribution, two footed skiing or ski shape.

To make a perfect turn you do what it takes, no more, no less.

....Ott
Only at ASC is there a perfect turn.
Wink-

You put forth an objective evaluation of the perfect turn. As an engineer I have spent most of my adult life being objective and analytical. For years these traits carried over into skiing and I spent entire ski seasons trying to analyze each turn, ad infinitum.

These days I usually go straight to the subjective side - how does it feel? What IS the perfect turn? Can it be described as you have attempted or does it feel right? Like an orchestration of motions (pole plant, weighting, knee flex, etc.) that come together to produce a smooth stable turn under the current conditions (snow quality, slope, moguls, etc.) in a way that feels satisfying and leads naturally to the next "perfect" turn?

Just another view....
To PJ,

Actually, I think we are in agreement.
To Ott,

So for you, has the " perfect turn" now become the "best turn" to get the job done ? I think so, and that works for me.
I see all the replys that hit at about the same time and I think we are all in agreement. We'ld probably have a good time skiing together...
The perfect turn has no meaning for me--it's too small an event--but I can get excited about a perfect run or a perfect day.

The perfect run is when there is a convergence of pitch, snow, weather, attitude, clothes, etc. that adds up to DIVINE.

The perfect day is made up of perfect company plus perfect runs.

I've had a few of both. I can't say I've ever had a perfect turn.
Quote:
 Originally posted by Pierre:Only at ASC is there a perfect turn.
Yeahhhhh, I sense the existence of the preliminary steps of wink...making a legal(maybe financial [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] ) Move in 2003! against ASC...for fraudulent usage...eh' [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
_____________________

Ott,
3 Hours of skiing was scheduled for us up in mid-central Maine..(OLN), but all we ended up with was 5 Hours of teens in that
"No Boundaries" !.. : : :
The perfect turn is the turn that brings you joy.

Almost every turn I make is perfect [img]smile.gif[/img]
There may be turns which mechanically are the best.
There may be turns which feel the best.
There may be turns which we try to emulate (normally because of the two mentioned above)
BUT, without complete knowledge, I do not believe it is possible to declare a particular turn as being "The Perfect Turn", although I fully understand what Adam has said.

It is similar to comments made in another thread. What I may consider a perfect turn for me will not be a perfect turn for everyone, because it is based on my limited knowledge and experience, and on my opinion. For me to declare a turn as being absolute perfection is ludicrous, egotistical and narrow minded.

I shall always strive to make better turns, and I shall endeavour to repeat good turns that I make, but the day I make a perfect turn is the day I become judge and jury for my own execution. (or I become self-styled "guru" who has disappeared so far up his own arse that he can see his breakfast)

S
I like Nolo's "perfect" days & runs. They can be multiple, and each unique. Closest I could apply that to a turn would be one that feels exactly as I intended it to (where a do over would be exactly the same). I could have multiple such unique experiences.

The idea of "The Perfect Turn" could be scary. If you somehow make it, would that mean that all the rest you do would be either something less, or becomes boring repitition?

I try to ski "kaizen" turns. An eastern concept that tanslates as a focus on continous improvement, or the pursuit of excellence, not it's end achievment. This path provides a learning value from all turns, whatever their relationship to an idealistic "perfect" turn.

[img]smile.gif[/img]
Wink: Of course there are perfect turns! And I get one every 17,692nd time......or was that 17, 693rd. Oh, now, look what I've done. I lost count. Oh, well, I'll just have to start all over again. (Ha! Ha! Hee! Hee!) :
I think the concept of a perfect turn frustrates a lot of skiers because they constantly feel like they're not doing it. Instead of really paying attention to what they are doing, all they no is they're not doing it "perfectly" so some sort of awareness shuts off.

Otherwise- what Ott and nolo said.

An interesting visual to this argument is the Sybervision video featuring Jean Claude Killy. I got this tape on ebay awhile ago for less than \$5 and I'd highly recommend it.

In the begining of the tape Killy is making a run in powder through the trees and into a mogul field. Later in the tape two other skiers demonstrate different types of turns short and medium radius and moguls.

The later skiers demonstrate technically excellent turns- one after another and they might even be close to "perfect turns" for the time period. In contrast, Killy's turns are not perfect at all. His hands are frequently back and one could say his weight is often too far back, but his skiing is magnificent. His run really is a thing of beauty - the way he varies his turn rythm, his incredible sense of balance and the overall flow throughout the run even though there are obstacles to ski around. It would be hard to find a better example of elegant skiing.

In contrast, the later skiers seem dry and a little sterile though technically excellent. (Though in their defense, they're demonstrating turns not making a run)

The upshot is if it really works, who cares if it's perfect?
Quote:
 Originally posted by Tog:The later skiers demonstrate technically excellent turns- one after another and they might even be close to "perfect turns" for the time period. In contrast, Killy's turns are not perfect at all. His hands are frequently back and one could say his weight is often too far back, but his skiing is magnificent. His run really is a thing of beauty - the way he varies his turn rythm, his incredible sense of balance and the overall flow throughout the run even though there are obstacles to ski around. It would be hard to find a better example of elegant skiing.
Great observation! I've had that tape since it came out and always felt the same way about Killy's skiing. I've long since only watched the Killy sections for the images and sensations as he flows over and around the terrain without conflict.

However I actually used the D-team skiing from this tape to show a contrast of traditional vs. modern movement blends for a movement analysis clinic I did this fall. I think it is useful to understand why we skied the way we did in the past.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
There's only one perfect turn I know of, the one we make into the ski area parking lot every morning.

Ski turns are like sexual encounters. Are there any perfect ones? Who cares, their all good, just keep em coming!!
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