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problems with CH4 wax

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
So last year when I waxed my skis with CH4, I couldnt scrape it off for the life of me. I did everything as usual, ironed on the wax, let it sit, and then tried to scrape. It just kind of cracked off and chipped off making it a very long process. I wound up having to go to a metal scraper because the plastic one didnt do anyhing.

I even went back with the iron to heat up the wax to try and get it off, but it was still difficult.

I have a race this friday and I will need to use CH4 again, due to the cold conditions and man made snow. I was just wondering if there are any tips for getting this wax to work for me, so I dont have to spend another two hours scraping.

Thanks
post #2 of 17
I am no expert but it sounds like you waxed way too thick. Try tapeing your edges on the outside then working the hot wax fully into the ptex. when it is still slightly warm work it down with steel and let cool, then finish with brushs.
have fun.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryel:
I am no expert but it sounds like you waxed way too thick. Try tapeing your edges on the outside then working the hot wax fully into the ptex. when it is still slightly warm work it down with steel and let cool, then finish with brushs.
have fun.
you could be right, I have a tendency to do that

I am just afraid of burning my bases though, and since CH4 melts at a much higher temp, it is more likely. I've heard of using the CH4 like a crayon, and rubbing it on, then dripping it on and iron it in as normal. But won't the crayon effect hurt the structure?
post #4 of 17
I use this wax on my skis for racing on the UK's artificial ski slopes and in Scotland. I to had a similar effect with the wax "chipping" off. Like Ryel, I would recommend cutting down on the amount off wax you put on the ski. I'd then, having covered the base, warm a small area of the base at a time and scrape with a sharp plastic scraper. Having worked down the ski I then polish with a brush.

Have you though about using a warmer wax over the base of the ski and using the CH4 just along the edges. I found this worked well for slalom when the ski is always on its edge.

Jonathan
post #5 of 17
On your last iron pass, use a bit of Fiberlene to pick up excess.

I am not sure the chipping is really that much to be concerned with, other than just the plain waste. I have never had it pull out repairs, and if it is pulling out Ptex hairs, well, that's a good thing. I have had to resort to car-window ice breakers before.

I have found CH4 very hard to drive into fluoro-prepped bases: it splatters off the surface and doesn't wet the underneath.

So, for Felix process efforts and for miniskis (just like slalom, snowshoes) where I want only the edge-side wax, I use a drum-style nut grinder on the CH4 bar and sprinkle the powder onto the base. Then I drip CH6 or LF6 on top; the molten CH6 carries the heat into the CH4.

I find the above much easier than hand-rubbing; you'd have to generate the melt-point heat just with friction alone. I haven't tried the Ray's Way line-contact Scalce recommended in a different thread, but with an ordinary cork maniacal efforts fall short.

Edited to say:
Crayon will not hurt the structure. It's just a question of you not being strong enough to polish it.

You can use the cheese grater too. It's STILL less effort than crayon and cork.

Does anyone use CH2 on Dendex, then?

[ January 03, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: comprex ]
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by PMZ:
So last year when I waxed my skis with CH4, I couldnt scrape it off for the life of me. I did everything as usual, ironed on the wax, let it sit, and then tried to scrape. It just kind of cracked off and chipped off making it a very long process. I wound up having to go to a metal scraper because the plastic one didnt do anyhing.

I even went back with the iron to heat up the wax to try and get it off, but it was still difficult.

I have a race this friday and I will need to use CH4 again, due to the cold conditions and man made snow. I was just wondering if there are any tips for getting this wax to work for me, so I dont have to spend another two hours scraping.

Thanks
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by PMZ:
So last year when I waxed my skis with CH4, I couldnt scrape it off for the life of me. I did everything as usual, ironed on the wax, let it sit, and then tried to scrape. It just kind of cracked off and chipped off making it a very long process. I wound up having to go to a metal scraper because the plastic one didnt do anyhing.

I even went back with the iron to heat up the wax to try and get it off, but it was still difficult.

I have a race this friday and I will need to use CH4 again, due to the cold conditions and man made snow. I was just wondering if there are any tips for getting this wax to work for me, so I dont have to spend another two hours scraping.

Thanks
CH4 is a difficult wax to deal with, I,ve found melting the wax in and scraping immediately after is the only way to clear the excess off the base. Follow up with corking and vigorous brushing or use a roto tool to brush off the excess and make your surface ready for gliding. You aren"t using too much wax, its just the nature of the beast, don't use too little though or at the temperatures necessary to melt CH 4 you'll burn the bases of your skis.Good luck in your race. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by hairybones:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PMZ:
So last year when I waxed my skis with CH4, I couldnt scrape it off for the life of me. I did everything as usual, ironed on the wax, let it sit, and then tried to scrape. It just kind of cracked off and chipped off making it a very long process. I wound up having to go to a metal scraper because the plastic one didnt do anyhing.

I even went back with the iron to heat up the wax to try and get it off, but it was still difficult.

I have a race this friday and I will need to use CH4 again, due to the cold conditions and man made snow. I was just wondering if there are any tips for getting this wax to work for me, so I dont have to spend another two hours scraping.

Thanks
CH4 is a difficult wax to deal with, I,ve found melting the wax in and scraping immediately after is the only way to clear the excess off the base. Follow up with corking and vigorous brushing or use a roto tool to brush off the excess and make your surface ready for gliding. You aren"t using too much wax, its just the nature of the beast, don't use too little though or at the temperatures necessary to melt CH 4 you'll burn the bases of your skis.Good luck in your race. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] </font>[/quote]hairy's got it right. In the Swix manual it gives you the procedure. Can't let it sit must scrape while its warm.

From Swix manual: "It is better to scrap the majority of the excess wax off the base while the baseis still slightly warm... nNext let the base completely cool. Finish by using light scraping strokes with a sharp plastic scraper. Brushing these waxes reqires a stiff nylon brush like the Swix hard white nylon..."

[ January 04, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: dougw ]
post #9 of 17
I think the key factors are:
- hot iron; and,
- sharp scraper.
That is:
- if the iron isn’t hot enough, the melted layer of wax never gets into the base; and,
- if the scraper isn’t sharp enough, the compensating downward pressure will break off the wax in big chunks instead of skiving it off.
I used a Holmenkol iron last night at a bit over 125 degrees C. (Swix specifies 150, but I think the Holmenkol thermostat runs a bit hot.) For scraper sharpening, following a tip in Ski Racing from Edgewise (the Stowe tuning shop affiliated w/ racestocksports.com), I placed sandpaper face up on a hard smooth surface, then ran the scraper edge across it. (I used a panzar file last year, but had trouble keeping the scraper edge even - this method seems to impart just as sharp a corner, yet keeps the scraper edge very even.)
Scraping this morning was very easy, and the ski felt like it had a microscopic barrier on the base. (Though I’ll still probably get base burn after my race runs at WaWachusett tonight...)
post #10 of 17
I also agree that no matter what, CH4 is hard to deal with.

I have a wax iron where the temp can't be adjusted so I need to make more passes to heat up the wax and base.

I think it will chip off at the tips and tails no matter what.
post #11 of 17
Why haven't any of you stepped into the new era of all temp wax's like Dominators Race Zoom. I use they're Hyper Zoom and like it. My Dominator Rep is trying to get me to use the Race Zoom, but for my skiing I don't need it, I don't race.
As a side note both his Daughters race in VT and go to SMS. I know they are both fast.
post #12 of 17
Finish your last iron pass, then lightly scrape the excess off.
I always scrape the edges off before the wax cools, too.
Any wax not on the actual surface is extra, no reason to wait
until it cools and becomes difficult to remove.
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by Max Capacity:
Why haven't any of you stepped into the new era of all temp wax's like Dominators Race Zoom. I use they're Hyper Zoom and like it. My Dominator Rep is trying to get me to use the Race Zoom, but for my skiing I don't need it, I don't race.
As a side note both his Daughters race in VT and go to SMS. I know they are both fast.
Post some links.

I can't find it online?
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by Scalce:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Max Capacity:
Why haven't any of you stepped into the new era of all temp wax's like Dominators Race Zoom. I use they're Hyper Zoom and like it. My Dominator Rep is trying to get me to use the Race Zoom, but for my skiing I don't need it, I don't race.
As a side note both his Daughters race in VT and go to SMS. I know they are both fast.
Post some links.

I can't find it online?
</font>[/quote]Tognar
Artech
post #15 of 17
Thanks

Google doesn't pick it up for some reason.
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by Scalce:
Thanks

Google doesn't pick it up for some reason.
Yeah, other than the spelling variations, a lot of folk seem to be generating one-time webpages using some sort of sequestered database. Froogle and the like are quite impotent: it is best keep a list of usual suspects like Race-Werks, Tognar, Artech, Reliable Racing, (Please fill in any others I might have missed).
post #17 of 17
Thanks

The sad part is I frequent those sites and have ordered from them.
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