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Should I Be Concerned About This?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I brought my skis in for their first base grind, and got a sharpen and hot wax too. Brought them to a shop that uses a high end machine and the place was recommended to me.

The skis are 2006/7 Metron B5 162. Bought them new last year. They have about 15+ days on them.

When I picked my skis up, there was still a bit of wax on them, as in hadn't been scraped/brushed off all the way. I didn't care because I was going to wax them a few more times.

When I was scraping the wax off, I noticed a pimple on the waist under the binding. I thought it was just a clump of wax or something that was trapped in the wax. When I tried to remove it, it wouldn't come off.

Now I'm thinking that they "possibly" took my bindings off, ran it through the machine and when they put them on, torqued it too far. If the bindings weren't removed I would think the screw tip would have been ground as well.

I've always waxed these skis myself so I know it wasn't there previously. It is located under the toe area of the binding infront of the AFD and as you can see in the picture about 1/2" inboard. At first I thought that it was too close to the edge to be a binding screw but it is inside the outer dimensions of the binding plate.

I have not done anything to these bindings other than set the boot sole length. I have not investigated further so if I need to bring them back I can't be blamed for messing with them.

I'm guessing that since everyone here always warns people not to screw through the base, that I should be concerned about this; if indeed that is what it is. Again, if that is the deal, can P-tex correct this?

I'm concerned about moisture wicking up inside and shortening the life of the ski, the screw getting corroded and that has all sorts of negative affects.

Is this a "Go back to the shop and have them correct it" or "This is a manufacturing deffect and Atomic is at fault, not the shop".

Of course there is still, it doesn't matter what conditions your skis are in because you ski like crap.

Thanks,
Ken
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post #2 of 20
Why would a shop remove a binding to stone grind them? Is this common practice?

How meticulous are you with your skis, could this have been there previously and you didn't notice it?

My guess is that the screw originally went deeper than it should've, but not enough to show through the P-tex. When material was removed in the stone grind, it showed.

Good luck.
post #3 of 20
The binding screws to a plate, which is integrated (not screwed, as fair as I know) into the skis. Even if they did remove it, there is no way to drive the screw too deep.

Looks to me like a stone (gravel) embedded in the base...
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpy View Post
Why would a shop remove a binding to stone grind them? Is this common practice?

How meticulous are you with your skis, could this have been there previously and you didn't notice it?

My guess is that the screw originally went deeper than it should've, but not enough to show through the P-tex. When material was removed in the stone grind, it showed.

Good luck.
I've NEVER removed a binding for a grind. Doesn't happen. Main reason - if you take them off, when you put them back on, you would have to do a full binding test, and that takes time.

As another poster said, the Neox bindings on these skis mount on rails, so screws through the base are not an issue.

I think it's probably just a fragment of the stone too - get an X-acto knife and pop it out. No harm done, and the little hole won't hurt anything. They're skis. If you notice something like that while you're skiing, I'd suggest taking up croquet.
post #5 of 20
I'm no expert but I'd think it's unlikely to be a screw.
Those skis have a plate with threaded holes so unless a tech went searching for a really really long screw it would never come close to going through.
Probably just something in the base.
I wouldn't worry about it...unless you pissed off the ski tech and he went and shot a screw right through the ski...
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
dumpy, krp2128, axebiker, and Morair,

Thanks. Much rather it be a stone than the hassle of all the rest. Haven't had the opportunity to piss the tech off...yet.

This is why I asked. I wasn't sure what had happened or what the process the shop would use and I was guessing. I will try the x-acto fix tonight and hopefully all will be well.

In order for me to notice something like that while skiing, I would have to get past a long list of other issues; like the skis are attached to my boots and my feet are in the boots. I assure you, I'm not "The Princess and the Pea." Not the first time croquet has been recommended to me though
post #7 of 20
I wouldn't even both w/ the xacto, probably do more damage than it's worth.
Just ski on them, might come out, if it doesn't it will the next time you get them tuned.
Of course I'm sure it's gnawing at you to know "what the hell is that thing?" so you'll dig and dig until it's out.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morair View Post
I wouldn't even both w/ the xacto, probably do more damage than it's worth.
Just ski on them, might come out, if it doesn't it will the next time you get them tuned.
Of course I'm sure it's gnawing at you to know "what the hell is that thing?" so you'll dig and dig until it's out.
I wouldn't bother either. I had a piece of gravel firmly embedded in my base, it took a LOT of digging to get it out.
post #9 of 20
Take a nail or a small screwdriver and scratch the culprit. You should be able to tell how hard the material is that's embeded. Prolly a rock. Pick it out,clean base area, P-tex and dress it up. There all better.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Good point. Maybe I'll keep it so I'll have an excuse. I'll leave my signature everywhere I ski. Might require the mountain to do some extra grooming but that's OK. I could probably use it as a handicap with my race buddies. Should be worth at least 6 seconds.
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 

The Answer Is...

I know you were all up last night worrying and since it's so close to ski time, it would be wrong of me to deprive you of anymore rest.

It was a rock. I was going to leave it but when I went to wax (iron actually) I realized it was going to keep scratching the iron each time I waxed. Reached for my handy dandy dental pick and a slice of a micro, miniscule itty bitty stone popped out.

After waxing it's not noticeable. I'm sure my skiing will improve by a quantum leap.

Seriously; Though it was something insignificant, I do appreciate you folks taking the time to help me figure this out.

Ken
post #12 of 20
Yay!! Extra structure!! You'll be UBER-fast now...
post #13 of 20
BTW, from shop geek perspective, these things are essentially impossible to totally eliminate. The more usual problem is the defect that hangs on to the stone and makes an annoying once per revolution tic in the base down the length of the ski.
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
BTW, from shop geek perspective, these things are essentially impossible to totally eliminate. The more usual problem is the defect that hangs on to the stone and makes an annoying once per revolution tic in the base down the length of the ski.
Pecker tracks!
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpy View Post
Why would a shop remove a binding to stone grind them? Is this common practice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
I've NEVER removed a binding for a grind. Doesn't happen. Main reason - if you take them off, when you put them back on, you would have to do a full binding test, and that takes time.
From SkiMD.com's Tuning Process, on stonegrinding:

Quote:
All appendages including bindings and removable ski tips are removed. This allows for optimal transmission of contact pressure over the entire length of the ski or snowboard, and ensures consistent and accurate material removal. Use of binding ramps always prevent this, and were developed to make it easier to do the job incorrectly. Any tuner who says this does not make a difference should probably not stonegrind your product.
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
From SkiMD.com's Tuning Process, on stonegrinding:

You know how much time it would take to remove the bindings from every ski that is brought in to stone grind? I can almost certainly say that no shop stone grinds without a bridge. Let alone removing the screws over and over again would eventually strip the screw holes. Also, like a previous poster mentioned, you would have to retest each binding.

SKIMD's prices are ridiculous.
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
JPH,
SkiMD's site is why I thought they removed the binding. It is probably one of the differences between paying $29. like I did or what SkiMD charges.

In defense of most shops, there isn't any money in charging $80. for stone grind to someone that is only willing to pay $200 for skis.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
From SkiMD.com's Tuning Process, on stonegrinding:
That's PURE BS. Shop owners - is there a shop that removes bindings for a grind? If they do, they have to fully function test the bindings, meaning the owner of the skis would have to leave his boots to get a tune. I gues if you charge a couple hundred bucks for a tune, sure. But otherwise, no way in hell.

That's marketing in it's finest form - "We're special". If you're on the World Cup, maybe, but for the average skier, or even "high performance" skier, that's ludicrous. Stripped screw holes are just the beginning. I wouldn't want to take the liability for removing and reinstalling bindings for a grind. I'd like to see someone who could actually tell the difference.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by axebiker View Post
If they do, they have to fully function test the bindings, meaning the owner of the skis would have to leave his boots to get a tune. I gues if you charge a couple hundred bucks for a tune, sure. But otherwise, no way in hell.
Yup. Such shops do exist. Important caveat: Usually they are working on skis that don't have indemnified binding settings anyways, i.e. race skis with race bindings at race settings. These shops don't just pull bindings, they pull plates.
Quote:
I'd like to see someone who could actually tell the difference.
Single time, should be very difficult to see the difference. Over the life of the ski, I haven't met the feed/bridge system that doesn't grind a bit more aggressively in the beginning of the ramp.

It is very nice running skis without bindings/plates. Consistent results with much less worry of flying skis or feed issues. (prolink! gahh!) This said, do I personally remove my bindings and plates before I grind my skis? LOL.
post #20 of 20
I remember Prolink - I shuddered every time. That was a two person grind since the bridge wasn't long enough to clear both. One would have to watch the front of the bridge while the other watched the rear and the feed. Ugh...

I can see that if you grind your ski ALOT you could eventually run into issues, but if I do mine once a year over the 3 or so years I own them, no harm, no foul.

I've never taken plates off to tune, but I imagine that if they have inset bolt-downs, it wouldn't be an issue so much.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Should I Be Concerned About This?