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Recommendations for "neighborhood" ski?

post #1 of 21
11/16/08 at 2:02pm
Thread Starter 
Usually get 2' - 3' of snow here and live close to the nordy trails but I'm thinking I want to get a cheap set up to just go trekkin' around the 'hood off the trails - mostly flat with some short moderate slopes, and the whole spectrum of snow conditions. My idea is to go with some basic 3 pin binders and leather boots even though I'm not a telemarker and just kinda fake whatever turns I can - maybe even try droppin my knee sometimes. As far as skis, this is def. not something I would bother with skins for and I don't want to mess with kick and glide wax (got plenty o' boards to wax as it is), so the conclusion I have come to is something with a no wax base, a metal edge, a bit of width, and a bit of shape. Does this make sense?
Will a no wax base climb much of a slope at all without herringbone'n or traversing? This seems to really narrow the choices down - the only one I've really zeroed in on are Karhu 10th Mountain. Not really that familiar with nordy or tele gear but I'm guessing there are/have been others like this. A friend was telling me about some wooden Bonnas that had a plastic base and some strips of mohair in the kick zone that sounded interesting but I think something new enough to have metal edges and a little width/shape but old enough to be inexpensive is what I want. Any suggestions/advice?
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post #2 of 21
11/16/08 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cznskier View Post
Usually get 2' - 3' of snow here and live close to the nordy trails but I'm thinking I want to get a cheap set up to just go trekkin' around the 'hood off the trails - mostly flat with some short moderate slopes, and the whole spectrum of snow conditions. My idea is to go with some basic 3 pin binders and leather boots even though I'm not a telemarker and just kinda fake whatever turns I can - maybe even try droppin my knee sometimes. As far as skis, this is def. not something I would bother with skins for and I don't want to mess with kick and glide wax (got plenty o' boards to wax as it is), so the conclusion I have come to is something with a no wax base, a metal edge, a bit of width, and a bit of shape. Does this make sense?
Perfectly.

Quote:
Will a no wax base climb much of a slope at all without herringbone'n or traversing?
Yes, up to blue-square turf if the forebody isn't too stiff and if either the snow is sticky enough to offer grip to pressed-in (negative) kick scales, or if the snow is loose enough to allow molded-on (positive) fish scales to bite.

Quote:
This seems to really narrow the choices down - the only one I've really zeroed in on are Karhu 10th Mountain.
Atomic Rainier/Chugach (negative pattern up to '09)
Fischer S-bound (outbound/snowbound/outtabounds/boundless)
Alpina Cross Terrain ('07-'08 version has a very interesting sidecut)
Rossi BC 90
Karhu XCD series (Pinnacle, 10th Mt, Guide)
Salomon XADV (-enture, haven't skied this one)
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post #3 of 21
11/16/08 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

Atomic Rainier/Chugach (negative pattern up to '09)
Fischer S-bound (outbound/snowbound/outtabounds/boundless)
Alpina Cross Terrain ('07-'08 version has a very interesting sidecut)
Rossi BC 90
Karhu XCD series (Pinnacle, 10th Mt, Guide)
Salomon XADV (-enture, haven't skied this one)
Cool, all sorts of prospects to keep an eye out for.

Thanks comprex!
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post #4 of 21
11/16/08 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cznskier View Post
Cool, all sorts of prospects to keep an eye out for.
Do you have boots?
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post #5 of 21
11/16/08 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
No boots yet - isn't there a couple different 3 pin set ups? 75 mm and something else?
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post #6 of 21
11/17/08 at 6:35am
50 mm, that was the racing width. Wayyyy outdated, no new boots for it in a decade or more.

The other variation is the lug height (thickness). Ankle-high boots generally go up to 15mm; big leather boots like the old Supercomp go beyond that to ~20mm. Not all 75mm 3pin will close on a big boot like that, need something fat like Rottefella Super Telemark.
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post #7 of 21
11/17/08 at 10:06am
More often than not, I get out on the narrower 'BC skis' w/BC-NNN (free pivoting) bindings and boots (green Rossis), than my Atomic Chugaches, cables and tele boots. It's just easier and quicker getting out the door, more comfortable and light weight for most short duration 'neighborhood' tours. Without an extended tour, turns are lower on the priority than higher frequency, short cruises with the dog.

(You've seen this before):

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post #8 of 21
11/17/08 at 10:13am
Ive never done it but I have often been tempted by the rediculously low priced gear I usually see on sale. Ive seen new Atomic setups, skis boots and all on sale for about $100.
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post #9 of 21
11/17/08 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Ive never done it but I have often been tempted by the rediculously low priced gear I usually see on sale. Ive seen new Atomic setups, skis boots and all on sale for about $100.

Do you even get snow you don't have to drive for?
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post #10 of 21
11/17/08 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Do you even get snow you don't have to drive for?

There was a time
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post #11 of 21
11/17/08 at 10:23am
1977 doesn't count.

Seriously, if you find the right boots, skis and bindings and poles are trivial.
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post #12 of 21
11/17/08 at 8:03pm
Thread Starter 
Hey Terry! I was hoping you might chime in too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
more comfortable and light weight for most short duration 'neighborhood' tours. Without an extended tour, turns are lower on the priority
Yea, pretty much what I was thinking but I'm afraid I would flail in loose snow on skis as narrow as those Rossi's, although they do look wider than your standard XC stuff they still look skinny to (for) me! I've heard of somebody doin' some pretty serious BC stuff on basically cross country gear - I'm guessing it's something like that. But I am not quite so accomplished so I think I'll go a little wider but that leaves the realm of any kind of NNN set - up, no? So still thinking light and simple I decided I would give some 3 pin stuff a try. Bindings are dirt cheap! Definetly not thinking about any sort of cable bindings and plastic boots.
Those Chugach's look a lot like a typical alpine ski, The Karhu 10th Mtn.'s I have seen look a bit narrower and straighter and a better match for light 3 pin binders ?





Only ONE pair of alpine boards tho - do you parallel much on your tele gear? I have friends who do and it seems like it might be the best of all worlds.

I was thinkin' the other day I need to give ol' Slidewright a clic.........
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post #13 of 21
11/17/08 at 8:14pm
Turning on something like that BC -is- going to be trickier, but they are -much- faster in a straight line than anything even moderately fatter and sidecut.

With a tall boot, NNN-BC can work a ski with 90mm tips, no problem.
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post #14 of 21
11/17/08 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
With a tall boot, NNN-BC can work a ski with 90mm tips, no problem.
Okay then, maybe I have'nt whittled this down to one binding/boot option........
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post #15 of 21
11/17/08 at 9:40pm
I'd avoid the 3-pins to begin with and seriously consider an NNN or BC-NNN system. Touring on narrower skis is tried and true and more versatile than you might be realizing. Plus, it does improve your balance for alpine and tele, etc. For a lot of the back door tours I've done with XC or BC skis, when I get out the Chugaches, though light, it feels like too much. It's like frequently pounding finish nails with a framing hammer, versus an occasional 16 with a finish hammer (or...light hiking with heavy hiking boots). If it's about the turn and not the tour, more beef is better, IMO.....with a free pivot, ideally.

The Havocs work well for me in crud and powder. So do the Legends and for about everything else and are fun. Definitely would like a pure carveing rig though. I'm spending less time on the teles and getting lazier and enjoying the speed and control of alpine gear......can't keep up with the kid otherwise.

FWIW, I acquired these guys but am conflicted between removing the 'more traditional' 3-pins and putting on some modern NNNs versus some much older pins and finding some old leathers and knickers....



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post #16 of 21
11/18/08 at 6:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord;996874.

FWIW, I acquired these guys but am conflicted between removing the 'more traditional' 3-pins and putting on some modern NNNs versus some much older pins and finding some old leathers and knickers....;)



[URL="http://www.slidewright.com/Misc/XC/IMG_0497.jpg"
[/url]
Actually something like these is what I had in mind when I first went down this road. But it seems that old woodies with metal edges are somewhat rare. Then there is the wax thing - just how well will something like those climb when waxed (or pinetar-ed?) properly and how sensitive to different snow conditions is the wax (klister?) choice? Would rather not have to fiddle with the bases for every or most outings.
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post #17 of 21
11/18/08 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cznskier View Post
Actually something like these is what I had in mind when I first went down this road. But it seems that old woodies with metal edges are somewhat rare.
You don't really need them unless you sidehill on icing snow a lot. Lignostone edges like on Asnes skis are actually fairly effective for turning pressures.

Quote:
Then there is the wax thing - just how well will something like those climb when waxed (or pinetar-ed?) properly
Old-school (shellac + tar), not so great.

New school, better than the fishscales.

Quote:
and how sensitive to different snow conditions is the wax (klister?) choice? Would rather not have to fiddle with the bases for every or most outings.
You could do it as just a schmear, like cream cheez on bagel.



Alpinord, those are crying for some of the big brass NN rat traps.
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post #18 of 21
11/18/08 at 7:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Lignostone edges like on Asnes skis are actually fairly effective for turning pressures.
Thanks - I was wondering about that too.



Quote:
Alpinord, those are crying for some of the big brass NN rat traps
Yea, those old Bonna's that are 2 or 3 dif. woods laminated together with the brass binders are pretty nice lookin'. Some of the old wooden waterskis are awesome! I've acquired a small collection over the years.
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post #19 of 21
11/18/08 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Alpinord, those are crying for some of the big brass NN rat traps.
Have any images or sources? Yea or nay?;



This is the look I need to shoot for:



And this for my sweetie:




I do have a pair of these guys:



This site will get you current on wood skis, laminates and pine tar.

Here are my Madshus Birkebeiners.
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post #20 of 21
11/18/08 at 9:01am
[quote=Alpinord;997094]Have any images or sources? Yea or nay?;




Those are close to what I was thinking of; I had one pair that had a brass top closure instead of wire or aluminum.

Quote:
I do have a pair of these guys:
Ooo, those are nice. Don't you need a fatter underfoot platform for them, more of a carved downhill ski, or risk tearing them out?
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post #21 of 21
11/19/08 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Those are close to what I was thinking of; I had one pair that had a brass top closure instead of wire or aluminum.


Ooo, those are nice. Don't you need a fatter underfoot platform for them, more of a carved downhill ski, or risk tearing them out?
Probably and they are really old releasable Ramer AT bindings anyway and just sitting in a box. But showing a little more brass would look nice. I don't expect to ski often with them the metal bindings and wood skis are more bout aesthetics and display than function.
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