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The Wild Life in Jackson Hole - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Here in the Land of Freedom, one can apply for an aerial hunting permit if one suffers from depredation of livestock or threat to human life from those evil human maiming coyotes. I would love to ride along on one of those trips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
These animals are beautiful in the wild but this isn't the wild anymore. It's suburbia. I realize Wyoming isn't suburbia but how long will it be before these animals begin killing livestock again. Or worse, attacking pets and children who happen to be in the wrong place?
I saw bear many times this year, mostly hiking alone without a firearm in a forest that doesn't allow firearms...not dead, didn't freak out, didn't run away and call a newspaper about how all those evil bears can't be this close to people. I did not see any cougar, which would have scared me considerably more. You need some Farkitrol (NSFW language). If you know you've got these dangerous coyotes around your property, go fix their vitamin Lead deficiency and do your neighbors a favor. Season's open, no?

Your comments about DEC "introducing" animals remind me of the rural legends I'm always hearing from the guys at the bar back in NY. You NY folks are good people, but y'all might want to lay off on the Genny now and again.
post #32 of 57
Great pics, Bob. Mod +1
post #33 of 57
Hey, I thought we were done with this.

Again Bob, great pics.
post #34 of 57
Thank you for the photos. Its reassuring to see that such wildness still exists in Jackson Hole in spite of the mega growth and development in nearby Jackson.

I don't want to restart an argument that can't be settled here but it has been my impresion that wilddlands in Yellowstone and vicinity had been severely overgrazed by an abnormally large elk population.We could see the evidence of this while hiking and backpacking in various areas of Yellowstone Park. You could trace the outline of very old beaver dams in the meadows for example in areas that couldn't possibly support beaver today because there was an almost complete lack of young deciduous vegetation. I'm not from that area but I can well imagine that this situation had come to be seen as "normal" as a result of years of predator control and management of the elk, winter feeding etc.
Here in New England the coyote has migrated into the region, moving into the niche left by absence the wolf even though historically it appears there never was a coyote poulation here previously. I can't imagine them as a threat however. You would be extremeley fortunate to see them. I never have here in New Hampshire although I've been entertained by their chorus many times.
post #35 of 57
Bob, many thanks for the photos. Awesome shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Ya well, they are great pictures reguardless. Just to witness these rare animals in the wild can be wonderful but also scarey if you happened to be hiking in the area alone.

Someone decided to introduce Coyotes into our area a while back.(DEC) Why? Stupid idea. not we have two dens of at least 10 each in our back 70 acres. Let alone another across the Interstate adjacent to my property. Some of the neighbors have lost cats and some others a dog. My Wife never snowshoes or crosscountry skis without taking a pistol. A man hiking with his two Golden Retrievers was attacked a couple months ago. He managed to fend them off but both his dogs were killed. No doubt, they saved his life. There have been some pictures of Mountain Lions photographed by a deer trail camera at night about 8 miles from here and a local Doctor has reported almost hitting a very large cat on the Highway right behind my property. No doubt, the DEC has introduced them also, although they have denied doing so.

These animals are beautiful in the wild but this isn't the wild anymore. It's suburbia. I realize Wyoming isn't suburbia but how long will it be before these animals begin killing livestock again. Or worse, attacking pets and children who happen to be in the wrong place?

Ok, i'm rambling. I'll quit.
Lars Coyote attacks on humans are extremely extremely rare. When they do occur its been small children. As for the golden retrievers, I have a hard time believing this event given the fear Coyotes have of humans. If it did happen the Coyotes were after the dogs and not the man.

We have Coyotes up on the 500 foot mountain in back of my house. I hear Coyotes howling it up some nights. I assume its after a kill. The Coyotes push the deer down in around the houses where they eat and sleep at night. Its safe for the deer around the houses where the Coyotes are afraid to venture in for now. I know some of my neighbors with small children and Golden Retrievers are extremely concerned about the Coyote population. I have seen a dead female coyote about 55lbs a long the road. Personally I don't think humans have too much to worry about from Coyotes. Talk to any serious hunter that spends over 50 days a year in the woods in PA and NY, they will all tell you the Coyote population is way up and the white tail deer population is way down. Many days they see more Coyotes than deer.

BTW Bear actually kill white tail deer as well. The head of NY State DEC was fired after he made a stupid comment that he had no idea bear were killing his white tail deer.

I doubt DEC introduced Coyotes or Mountain Lions in the north east.

On that note. I personally did witnessed a mountain lion run about 20 feet across the road in front of my car near Plattekill Ski in NY state Catskills mountain as I was making the left turn off route 30. I was going to teach an NSP OEC class on Sunday morning and one my students and good friend was in the passenger seat. He also saw the big cat, big paws, and that long tail. It was close enough tht we got a real good look. My response was WOW. My friends response was that was definitely a big cat. After the class we came back looking for tracks and hair but could not find any.

Although its wise to be cautious of wild animals, I personally don't have any fears hear in the North East. I have camped around black bears that eventually got our food after a few nights when we got a little lazy and did not tie it up high enough. The probability of an attack from mammal here in the north east is extremely low.

Spiders and ticks on the other hand scare the crap out of me. I have seen what those little things can do to my friends and its never good thing.
post #36 of 57
Unfortunately here in NH we do not have mountain lions or wolves. The coyote,as I said earlier, moved into a niche vacated by the native wolf when it was exterminated locally.
I find it very difficult to believe coyotes are a threat to people. I was camped once in the snow outside Nederland Colorado and was serenaded in the night by coyotes. In the morning I could see their tracks right up to the tent, probably inches from my head. Well I'm still here anyway. I have the impresion they are afraid of us, as are the black bears around here, hence they are seen even less than bears.
post #37 of 57
Thread Starter 
On coyotes...

The wolf reintroduction has been a very, very bad thing for coyotes in this system. Wolves are mortal enemies of coyotes and will seek out and destroy any they find in their territory. The northern half of the Jackson Hole valley has seen a huge drop in the coyote population since the wolves started ranging out of Yellowstone Park.

As to the danger of coyotes to humans, here is a swear-to-god personal experience. When I was a little kid in Iowa, I was taught to hunt at a very young age. My father had a cabin along the Missouri River south of Omaha and we used to go there often to hunt and fish. One day when I was six, I was walking - alone - along a brushy trail headed for a favorite spot to fish. I came around some trees and came face-to-face with a big coyote (at least he seemed pretty damn big to me - his eyes were only a few inches lower than my eyes). I was no more than three feet away from him. He never acted aggressive in any way. He just looked at me for about two heartbeats and then turned around and walked away. I ran back to the cabin scared to death.

I like coyotes. We listen to them all the time.
post #38 of 57
Anyone who knows me here surely knows I wouldn't make up a story about a coyote attack just to entertain you folks. It was real and the dogs certainly did die. As for the attack being on them or their master, that is up to the believer. It did happen. As for coyotes, we really do have a problem here. I live in a rural area with my house far from the road and no neighbors on my side of this road for several hundred yards. My house is surrounded by woods and have had deer, bear, turkeys as well as fox and coyotes in what lawn we do mow around the house. Otherwise, I can walk in the woods behind my house for miles before I come to another road or a house. The coyote problem we have here is real. I'll leave it at that and the thread to bob's wonderful pictures. ok?
post #39 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzer View Post

To specifically address the issue of not having a tripod, here are a few options that the XTI offers you.
First thing I’d do is to switch the camera out of the Program mode. If image sharpness is your principal concern, consider Shutter Priority mode. Most SLRs will let you know when you exceed acceptable exposure values, and will inform you of underexposure. Another option would be to select Aperture Priority mode, then fire away. I do not know what specific 300mm lens you had mounted, but even most of the lower priced telephoto lenses can be opened up to 5.6, yielding you a full 1 2/3 stops to play with as opposed to the f10 that the camera selected.

Another usable tool is your camera's ISO selector. I couldn’t get the full Canon manual, but the dope sheet states that in Auto mode, ISO ranges from 100 to 400. However, set manually ISO ranges from 100 to 1600. In general, I choose the lowest ISO rating that I can get away with, but will bump it up when the need or my mood dictates. Major issue with earlier digital cameras was the amount of noise at high ISO settings. Current crop of pro and prosumer SLRs are much improved, but I can’t speak with any authority about the XTI. Play with all of the possibilities and see what works best for you.
Thanks for the suggestions, Bazzer.

I'm the first to admit that I'm just a point-zoom-click photographer. I pretty much do whatever the camera selects and I know that I should learn to use some of the features you recommend. I've never really looked at the manual to try to figure out how I could better use shutter and/or aperture priority. I'll start paying more attention.

I really appreciate your depth of knowledge on this subject.

That's about a ten year old 70-300mm Canon zoom. It was a good one when I bought it but probably wouldn't even measure up to an off-brand today.

Thanks again,
post #40 of 57
Bob

You are one lucky photographer. I come to GTNP/YNP most every fall for hiking and photography, and it has been my fortune to see wolves only twice -- once at quite a distance (and the photos even from my 500 mm lens were tiny) and once immediately in front of my car (when I couldn't get my camera quickly enough for a photo). I think it is a privilege to get the opportunity to photograph them regardless of the passions that surround them.

It is interesting to see the changes in the park over the past ten years since the reintroduction of the wolves. While I used to see elk all the time, and they were about as thick as they are in Rocky Mountain National Park, their behavior and numbers have certainly changed. My family has been in ranching for more than a century, so I understand the issues of livestock as well. But I think I prefer the way the park is today. I'd like to see a better way of mitigating the impact of wolves on those who make their living from their land, though. And i do resent how many folk who live elsewhere want to impose their value system on folk who live in areas such as Wyoming (my home state) and Colorado.

I wouldn't worry about the age of your lens. Glass is glass, and while there new things all the time (faster autofocus, lighter weight) I would doubt that a new lens would be much better.

Congrats on a fine capture.

Mike
post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Anyone who knows me here surely knows I wouldn't make up a story about a coyote attack just to entertain you folks. It was real and the dogs certainly did die. As for the attack being on them or their master, that is up to the believer. It did happen. As for coyotes, we really do have a problem here. I live in a rural area with my house far from the road and no neighbors on my side of this road for several hundred yards. My house is surrounded by woods and have had deer, bear, turkeys as well as fox and coyotes in what lawn we do mow around the house. Otherwise, I can walk in the woods behind my house for miles before I come to another road or a house. The coyote problem we have here is real. I'll leave it at that and the thread to bob's wonderful pictures. ok?
Lars
It sounds like you really live in a wonderful place. I didn't really mean to disregard your anecdote and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Your experience with coyotes is just very different from mine. I know that coyotes seem to contend with domestic dogs. Some of their loud concerts up at our cabin have seemed to be disputes with the neighbors dogs who are accustomed to running free in what is now some coyote's territory. We've never had coyotes here before so its an all new experience and not necessarily the same as that of the western coyote population.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarkinBanks View Post
I agree with Faber.

So Spindrift, lets get back to talking about something we both like....

Kuro's.

Again, sorry to Bob (and everyone else) for hijacking the thread.


How do you kill a wolf with a Kuro
post #43 of 57
[quote=Garrett;995535I saw bear many times this year, mostly hiking alone without a firearm in a forest that doesn't allow firearms...[/quote]

Garrett, what forest are you not allowed to carry firearms? I do not know of any around here, that would not let you.
post #44 of 57
Great pix, Bob. Thanks for sharing them.

And speaking of Kuros, why is it they aren't?
post #45 of 57
There are a few Kuros floating around NA these days. But not many. I heard from a reliable source that only a couple hundred pair total were coming in this fall. Untracked currently has both sizes. Some of the other usual suspects seem to have some - mostly 175s...
post #46 of 57
Awesome pictures
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
There are a few Kuros floating around NA these days. But not many. I heard from a reliable source that only a couple hundred pair total were coming in this fall. Untracked currently has both sizes. Some of the other usual suspects seem to have some - mostly 175s...

I can pretty much confirm that this is the case - not many in NA. Those who have them will be few.

Mine's been on order for a while and I may not end up getting it.
post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Anyone who knows me here surely knows I wouldn't make up a story about a coyote attack just to entertain you folks. It was real and the dogs certainly did die. As for the attack being on them or their master, that is up to the believer. It did happen. As for coyotes, we really do have a problem here. I live in a rural area with my house far from the road and no neighbors on my side of this road for several hundred yards. My house is surrounded by woods and have had deer, bear, turkeys as well as fox and coyotes in what lawn we do mow around the house. Otherwise, I can walk in the woods behind my house for miles before I come to another road or a house. The coyote problem we have here is real. I'll leave it at that and the thread to bob's wonderful pictures. ok?
I believe you, but around here we have a large coyote population. They are rarely seen. At night you can hear the pups in their dens whining. I have heard of no encounters of a dangerous nature.

Except one, back in the 60s a friend was hunting in winter when a pack turned around and charged him. He was off his snow machine where he had left his rifle. They were within feet when he dropped two with his pistol. This guy was the best woodsmen I have ever know, and I trust his story.

Also, I hear that Wolves have a bite worse than a pitbull Kind of hard to believe though.
post #49 of 57
What about attacks on humans in Wy and ID. Haven't heard of any. When ever there is a cougar attack it quickly hits the news.
post #50 of 57
I remember when I was walking around Jenny Lake in JH, coming back from a hike, back in the mid 70's, around dusk a pack of coyotes trotted out of the woods, silently turned aside and trotted away single file. It was kind of a special experience, seeing them up close. I never felt especially threatened.
post #51 of 57
As alway, great photos Bob.
post #52 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
What about attacks on humans in Wy and ID.

Small yappy dogs disappear every now and then.

To my knowledge, there's never been a documented case of any sort of coyote attack on a human in the state of Wyoming.

I've also been told that there have been no documented attacks on humans by wolves in the US since prior to 1900. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's sort of the "conventional wisdom" out here.
post #53 of 57
I've never heard of a coyote attack on a human. They have, however, "taken" dogs off of their leads in my neighborhood. Have to be careful with the urban/rural interface collapsing.

Mike
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeX View Post
Garrett, what forest are you not allowed to carry firearms? I do not know of any around here, that would not let you.
I could carry a trail gun. No firearms discharge in the Sandia Ranger district. Plenty of wildlife up there, but attacks on adult humans are practically unheard of. Someone sees a bear and runs away screaming and dialing TV stations now and again, and someone let their very young child run off in the forest and meet a cougar last spring, but that is about it. Now my buddy who hikes all summer in AK without firearms...well, that probably is unwise.

Coyote attacks on pets and humans (infants/toddlers left in the wild without adult supervision for the most part) are a growing problem in the exurbs, but that is a problem with exurbs and the people who live in them, not with wildlife. Coyotes don't get aggressive towards humans until things like California happen, where PETA types feed feral cat colonies and no one shoots at anything.
post #55 of 57
I think we had a coyote gathering outside my house two nights ago (in suburban Massachusetts!). The noise woke my wife and me up. At first coming out of sleep I thought it sounded like children laughing and squeeling, but that wasn't quite it. Sort of doggish, but not really. Didn't sound angry, so probably not fighting or hunting. Very strange sounds. We started looking out windows, but didn't see anything before sound quit.
post #56 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
I think we had a coyote gathering outside my house two nights ago (in suburban Massachusetts!). The noise woke my wife and me up. At first coming out of sleep I thought it sounded like children laughing and squeeling, but that wasn't quite it. Sort of doggish, but not really. Didn't sound angry, so probably not fighting or hunting. Very strange sounds. We started looking out windows, but didn't see anything before sound quit.
Did you have clear skies that night?

I think the moon was full (or pretty close). They like that.
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Lars, An interesting discussion of coyotes in NY.

The odds of DEC "introducing" cougar without public disclosure are, zero. Regarding that cat, if your neighbor has not mentioned, in a big way, the giant tail of the cat he's seen - it is not likely a cougar. That tail is a key diagnostic & is almost always the first thing mentioned after the large size of the animal in a real cougar sighting. This from the F&W guy I discussed the cougar in my yard/neighborhood ( a number of years ago) with. We also discussed unfounded panic and misconceptions about bobcat and coyotes (which, along with bear, can also be seen in my neighborhood) ...

Regarding livestock & wolves - that's a long a complicated discussion. And I'm not really current on it. But there is already at least one financial compensation mechanism in place...
No kidding! I have seen 2 cougars: one while mountain biking, one while driving through the mountains, and holy crap! Both cats must have had a tail 3 feet long, and each cat probably weighed around 100lbs, perhaps a little more. Each time they disappeared in a hurry.

Thanks for the photos of the wolves. Not something you see everyday, especially in Oregon. We have a few up in the far northeastern mountains, but those have recently moved in from Idaho and haven't been here long.
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