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Free Ride for Full Certs - Page 2

post #31 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewil View Post
There are reciprocal courtesies that many courses offer PGA members but certainly not anywhere we want. (I am a Class A PGA member.) It is entirely up to the individual course whether or not to offer any courtesies or discounts. The PGA of America is not involved in that decision. If a member or apprentice were to demand "free rounds" that would be an ethics violation of the PGA Consititution subjecting that member/apprentice to potential penalties up to dismissal from the organization.

At my course in Colorado we offer members of our section reciprocal courtesies and members from other sections across the country a significant discount. But we also severly limit both the number of rounds as well as the time of day they may be played.

Here at the the PGA owned facilities in Florida I don't receive "free" rounds-there is a daily cost I must pay. Less than the general public but an out of pocket cost for me, that I gladly pay.
Right on, thanks for the clarification. I worked at a course this summer and the head pro showed me his benefits and briefly explained them, I must have misunderstood.

Still like the Free Ride idea though...

-nerd
post #32 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman View Post
and you volunteered to not get a dime, imagine if all the volunteers went away?
maybe then pro patrol would get paid what they're worth.

sorry but most of the yellow jackets here have "real" jobs (jobs that pay way more than any in the ski industry) and are just using their volley status to ski cheap or go on power trips behind "SLOW" signs...

Do you really think any mountain would be able to afford all of the patrollers that they need if they got rid of volunteers?

As to your "yellow" jackets. In the states, we wear red and from all of the mountains that I have skied at (haven't skied in Canada) I haven't seen any speed cops. Of course I never ski on green trails so maybe I am missing them?
post #33 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
all patrollers are NOT volunteers.

for stuck-up weekend warriors who think they own the mountains they ski 20 days a year on.

No where in my post did I claim all patrollers were volunteers.

It's funny that you think we act like we own the mountain. I guess volunteering and helping those injured implies that and isn't as good as someone who gets paid to do something.
post #34 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzboy283 View Post
Do you really think any mountain would be able to afford all of the patrollers that they need if they got rid of volunteers?

As to your "yellow" jackets. In the states, we wear red and from all of the mountains that I have skied at (haven't skied in Canada) I haven't seen any speed cops. Of course I never ski on green trails so maybe I am missing them?
The large resorts in the Tahoe region need 'speed cops' because of how busy they can get on weekends and holidays...probably due to their proximity to urban areas. I'm sure many western resorts need 'speed cops', on any congested or cross-traffic run, green, blue, or black.

Here at Squaw, we have full-time, part-time, and volunteer patrollers, as well as a full-time patrol staff specializing in avy control. Many patrollers own certified rescue dogs that work for the resort and train regularly with Care Flight. It's taken very seriously around here. Paid or not paid, most patrollers work very hard and they are very passionate about the service they provide to us all.

FYI, I'm not a patroller, but I do have many friends that are!
post #35 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman View Post
sorry but most of the yellow jackets here have "real" jobs (jobs that pay way more than any in the ski industry) and are just using their volley status to ski cheap or go on power trips behind "SLOW" signs...
Ski cheap yes. Ski more, yes. Power trips behind SLOW signs, not so much. I'm not a patroller, but I would imagine that standing behind a slow sign watching wanna-be thug kids go by at mach snell and having to yell at them has to be by far the worst part of the job. Also, when a patroller wants to ski free at a mountain they typically have to wear their vest and carry a radio to be available to help. Not exactly FREE. I think they deserve everything they get.


-Adam
post #36 of 126
It's quite hard to work out which resorts give discounts to certified instructors. Can't find anything useful on the PSIA sites. You'd think they'd have a list! What's the point in giving cheap tix if no one knows about it?
post #37 of 126
Fewer tickets given away!

Seriously though, when I travel I just politely inquire at the customer desk if any courtisies are extended, and thank them politely whatever their response is. A couple of years ago I skied Squaw for several days for $41, and was very happy for the discount. I think Bridger discounts but I don't we give out free tickets either, except when presented with MSAA cards.

I just to have ask this question: Why should I as a level III ski anywhere I want for free?

In my state of Montana, we have MSAA (Montana Ski Area Assoc.) tickets that are available to full time instructors (any level) that give us two days at each member area for free each year. This includes Targee and JH. I think JH may be new to this agreement. Hopefully I'll get down there sometime soon.
post #38 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman View Post
sorry but most of the yellow jackets here have "real" jobs (jobs that pay way more than any in the ski industry) and are just using their volley status to ski cheap or go on power trips behind "SLOW" signs...
In most areas volunteer patrolling is a pretty poor way to get your skiing paid for. It works out to about $1.25 an hourthe first year, with all the training, gear costs etc. They do it to help the mouintain and the skiers.

Instructors? They pitch in frequently too. I don't know what good they do an area they visit, but some interaction with the outside word helps most organisations.
post #39 of 126
A tradition that I recall from many years ago was that visiting pros would check in with the SSD or a supervisor and offer to stand at the bell for a lesson, and in return they would get a comp pass for the day. A more senior visiting pro might be asked to do a short staff session.

On a busy day, the SSD might be grateful enough to have a spare pro show up that an extra comp ticket voucher would also be given.

At other times, the offer of carrying a lesson was enough to earn a comp pass, with no requirement to actually carry a lesson.
post #40 of 126
The question is asked, What does mountain x get for giving a discount to a full cert from mountain y...?

My response: Most, if not all L3, have taught 100s if not 1000s of lessons. They are committed to the sport and the continuation of the sport.....For every person who learns to ski, they may share their passion with 2 others....SKIERS HAVING FUN SKIING, grows the sport. A larger skier base, allows more areas to be profitable, buy realestate, eat 10 dollar burgers etc. Our mountian trains 1000s of never-ever skiers each year. After a few visits to our hill, these folks are more apt to go out west, or up north.....

This would be one reason......


I appreciate any discount that is offered. I also sell that resort to any guest that asks where I ski or where they should go. I currently remain silent, if possible, on the resorts who may not be so appreciative. That said, I don't lie.

Guest: Have you ever been to Killington?
Me: Yes.....but I enjoy skiing Mt Snow or Stowe much better.
post #41 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by I:)Skiing View Post
Guest: Have you ever been to Killington?
Me: Yes.....but I enjoy skiing Mt Snow or Stowe much better.
Heh, me too. On all counts! I never 'got' Killington.
post #42 of 126
Interesting. I have always recommended resorts to my customers based on what that resort has to offer my customer, not based on what a resort is offering me. For instance, I frequently suggest my students travel to Discovery ski area because it is a little gem to ski, even though it offers no discount to psia level III's. In fact, they could care less what one's credentials are, everyone pays the same. Unless of course you have an MSAA card, which simply means that you are full time ski area employee.
post #43 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Heh, me too. On all counts! I never 'got' Killington.
HA! Going to Killington inspired me to get the heck out of New England, so it has some value!
post #44 of 126
Sorry, I'm in a piss mood and this thread has bugged me. The title of this should have been "Should Ski Areas Raise the Price of Lift Tickets so Full Certs Ski Free?".

Everybody wants everything free these days, free health care, free food, free housing, free money. Vote for the guy who'll give you the most freebies. Mommy and Daddy gave you everything free, why shouldn't everyone else?

Rant off.
post #45 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by I:)Skiing View Post
I appreciate any discount that is offered. I also sell that resort to any guest that asks where I ski or where they should go. I currently remain silent, if possible, on the resorts who may not be so appreciative. That said, I don't lie.
Do you tell folks that you are more actively promoting those areas that do you favours, just in case they want to be able to account for biases when hearing a recommendation? That trendy phrase "full disclosure" comes to mind...
post #46 of 126
I'm with stevesmith7 and learn2turn on this one.

Although, why not have the taxpayers bailout the ski industry with some cash and sponsor more people to ski? Perhaps we should force all companies that are receiving bailout money to have a certain percentage of vacations taken at ski areas where they pay full price out of their salary.
Or, what better use for all the huge suv's that Detroit has piling up then to transfer them cheaply to ski areas?
Now for even more ridiculousness:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
I'd rather they offer free skiing to independently funded attractive singe women.
From Merriam Webster:Main Entry: 1singe Pronunciation: \ˈsinj\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): singed; singe·ing \ˈsin-jiŋ\ Etymology: Middle English sengen, from Old English sæncgan, sengan; akin to Old High German bisengan to singe, Old Church Slavic isęknǫti to dry up Date: before 12th century : to burn superficially or lightly : scorch ; especially : to remove the hair, down, or fuzz from usually by passing rapidly over a flame

Thank goodness lasers were invented and singe women aren't what they used to be...
post #47 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post
Do you tell folks that you are more actively promoting those areas that do you favours, just in case they want to be able to account for biases when hearing a recommendation? That trendy phrase "full disclosure" comes to mind...
That is a good point to consider. I am currently completing a guidebook about Breckenridge. When I signed my contract, I had to agree that I would not accept freebies from any establishment that may influence my opinion. Even in my job at Examiner,
I often get offer to "test" certain products. However, my boss always tells the marketing person that I can "test," but that does not guarantee a positive review.
post #48 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
I

From Merriam Webster:Main Entry: 1singe Pronunciation: \ˈsinj\ Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): singed; singe·ing \ˈsin-jiŋ\ Etymology: Middle English sengen, from Old English sæncgan, sengan; akin to Old High German bisengan to singe, Old Church Slavic isęknǫti to dry up Date: before 12th century : to burn superficially or lightly : scorch ; especially : to remove the hair, down, or fuzz from usually by passing rapidly over a flame

Thank goodness lasers were invented and singe women aren't what they used to be...
Where's the middle finger icon ? I have some of the worst typing skills on this forum. Thanks for reminding me. It's too late to buy an L.
I'll leave it to Chaos to singe the hotties with his heat.
post #49 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
Where's the middle finger icon ? I have some of the worst typing skills on this forum. Thanks for reminding me. It's too late to buy an L.
I'll leave it to Chaos to singe the babes with his heat.
No worries, Gary. I truly beat you for godawful typing skills!
post #50 of 126
There seems to be a very adamant 'Me First, Me Only' crowd here who have no interest in doing anything for anyone else unless they get something for it. Personally, I've never had that mentality, nor do I ever want to adopt it.

If people need to hear a financial argument just to extend a common courtesy then here's one: Most people prefer to ski at challenging areas yet a lot of Level 3's work at un-challenging areas as those are the areas best suited for teaching beginners and intermediates who are unlikely to learn at difficult areas. Essentially, we teach those never-evers, beginners and intermediates to ski well enough that they can ski more difficult terrain at more challenging areas.

Once these lower-level skiers get good enough to ski at better ski areas, they migrate over there paying for tickets, advanced lessons, food and beverage. They certainly don't hang around the easy areas (unless they become instructors). To put it simply, skiing customers are a shared population and many of them only get to ski the expensive, more challenging areas because of the instruction they get from instructors at cheap, easy areas. Moreover, it provides instructors a better chance to get to know each other and get to know multiple areas, thus providing better information to customers who certainly move around a lot.

Even without this argument I prefer a considerate, sharing and cooperative world of skiing over the self-serving, possessive "Gimme-Something-First" world that we have been moving toward for the last 8 years.

.ma
post #51 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post
There seems to be a very adamant 'Me First, Me Only' crowd here who have no interest in doing anything for anyone else unless they get something for it. Personally, I've never had that mentality, nor do I ever want to adopt it.

.ma
Where to begin?
Looks like you've got things backwards here. Give "ME" some free skiing because I'm a ski instructor. Why stop there? I'm old, I should ski free too. Heh, I'm young, let me in free. What about me, I'm left handed?




Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post
.....
Even without this argument I prefer a considerate, sharing and cooperative world of skiing

.ma
Problem is your considerate , sharing world is a world with nothing to share. Remember, a business has only one reason to pay or give you anything and that's because they believe by doing so they will receive greater value in return for what they put out. It's not being greedy to try and make a profit. It's what put those lifts up in the first place. There already exists a ski world where everything is free, it's called the backcountry. Start hiking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post
.....
over the self-serving, possessive "Gimme-Something-First" world that we have been moving toward for the last 8 years.

.ma
Now we get to the meat of the arguement, It's all Bush's fault.

You know there are a lot of non-capitalist places in the world. Can't we just have this one stay with this system? You've got so many choices and I'm running out fast.
post #52 of 126
It's up to each ski area to decide what discount they would give or not. And most do. Why? Because they see something of value in it.

As far as the disclosure goes, how's this - I'm a lot more likely to ski at areas that offer me a discount. Will I recommend a place solely because it gives me a discount? No. Will I recommend a ski area that I've never skied at? No. If a ski area offers a pittance discount, no discount or makes it hard for me to get a discount, I'm less likely to ski there, and therefore less likely to be able to recommend them.

As was mentioned, skiers are a shared pool. Years ago when I was working for Alkyeska, a new ski area was getting ready to start up in Anchorage. They needed someone with my expertise, and Alyeska agreed to loan me to them for a two months. the manager at Alyeska saw the value in having a learning center in the city to get more people on skis. (Kinda sucked for me, as I had to sleep in the lift shack for 2 months, but that's another story).

Ski instructors are not in it for the money. At least they had better not be. I made about $1200 last season, working 40 days. I'm in it for the skiing. There are others like me at almost every ski area. By reciprocating discounts, we get the opportunity to get on new terrain, meet other instructors, try new things. We get discounts at their ski area, they get discounts at our area. The cost to the ski area is negligible, but the benefit to the employees is significant. it helps keep a pool of long time instructors coming back. if it wasn't for free skiing, guess how many of the 31 new ski instructors we hired this year would be there. One or two, maybe?

All the arguments on both sides of this disagreement are ka-ka. Should instructors have a right to free skiing anywhere they want? No. That's the ski area's decision to make. Should non-instructors have the right to bitch when ski instructors get free skiing or a discount? No. It's the ski area's decision to make. You want to throw a little capitalism in? You don't like the skiing value you're offered, go somewhere else. If it offends you that someone might get free skiing privileges and you don't - to the point that it interferes with your ability to enjoy a day on the snow, take up another sport. Skiing is for people who enjoy it.
post #53 of 126
I thin we shold strt grop calld 'singe women'. Crse you shld be fmale n be typable n know grummer for do it. (actually, that could be bushwackerinPA typing there.)

Good points HarryM. I think this discussion is having problems because it's ranging from free passes to discounted passes. Part of the problem is the ski areas themselves. Our area in the east is now at $77 for a weekend/holiday pass! Most people will not pay that they'll get some kind of discount somehow and if they belong to a club it's considerable. If you just show up to ski though you are now faced with a rather large sum to pay.

So are ski area lift tickets becoming like the airline industry? Although maybe the airline's pricing is getting more consistent and skiing's worse? Don't fly enough to know but ski areas are getting ridiculous. In some ways the areas soak the casual skier who may come several days a year and pay full price in search of the random busloads of the masses who pay well less than half the advertised price.

Are areas screwing the regulars (let's say 8+ days/yr) in search of mass consumers? It's the consistent skiers/riders that give areas their character but aren't they in effect supporting others by paying more?

I'm actually not opposed to giving comp tickets at all. I think it's actually a good idea though maybe some money should change hands. I think it's the idea that there's some inherent right to it that bothers me.
Quote:
There seems to be a very adamant 'Me First, Me Only' crowd here who have no interest in doing anything for anyone else unless they get something for it. Personally, I've never had that mentality, nor do I ever want to adopt it. - michaelA
See, that works both ways. I see the 'I have a right to a free pass' as a 'Me First, Me Only' statement. It's almost as if its some sort of union contract that can't be broken with inherent rights workers get even if the business is going down the tubes.(and no I'm not opposed to unions)

Actually michalA, I agree with most of your skiing reasons for comp tickets.

I've been seriously annoyed at Stowe for not giving any instructor discount in the past. Then again we were annoyed at Stowe also that weekend (several yrs ago) for charging full weekend/holiday rates on April 15th even with Liftline, National and some other trails closed. When we asked about this we were told "Its mid windter conditions.[will keep sp mistake] People are flying to ski here from Colorado!" -OK, if anyone is flying from CO to ski at Stowe at anytime just for the skiing , not some instructional event or family thing, truly there's something wrong with them.(But possibly they got free tickets?) Of course if you're from the UK you'll disagree...oh wait they like Killington..

Instead of skiing at Stowe on Sunday we went to MadRiver, got no discount and had a great time. Their tickets were approrpriately priced for mid - April.

I must say that I haven't felt the same way about Stowe since. Of course that was the first time in years I'd been to Stowe and really it was their attitude about the tickets in general and that Stowe was so great that it was worth it that bothered us. It was ridiculous. I used to love Stowe but now I looked around and saw a lodge that was tiny, and had a very steep climb up to the lifts that they didn't seem to make much effort to make easier. Then there was the new quad to the top. What was up with that? At one point it was so low to the trail that probably 30 yrds of trail had to be blocked off and even then you had to pay attentionor run into the lift. Was it really that great an improvement over when they you used to give you woolen ponchos to ride the old double and single? Frankly I'd go somewhere else next time, and actually did.
post #54 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
I thin we shold strt grop calld 'singe women'. Crse you shld be fmale n be typable n know grummer for do it. (actually, that could be bushwackerinPA typing there.)



I'm actually not opposed to giving comp tickets at all. I think it's actually a good idea though maybe some money should change hands. I think it's the idea that there's some inherent right to it that bothers me.
I measure Josh's contributions by what he brings to this forum . Lot's of stoke and sharing . Any misperfection of grammar is easily dismissed by his contributions here. Your attempt at ridicule reflects more of yourself than if does him or myself for a missed letter.


On the topic. I like discounts when I can get them but demanding comps because of your magnificent presence is an unfair burden on us all. However a full cert offering his services for a clinic or a lesson should be rewarded with a pass for the day . I'd endorse that in a heartbeat. I see it as a good way to get some new input in the teaching at any resort.
post #55 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
I measure Josh's contributions by what he brings to this forum . Lot's of stoke and sharing . Any misperfection of grammar is easily dismissed by his contributions here. Your attempt at ridicule reflects more of yourself than if does him or myself for a missed letter.
Not an attempt at ridicule, but at the ridiculous. Sorry if you're offended. (didn't you give me the middle finger btw? )

As for Josh, as far as I know we get along just fine with mutual respect thank you very much. It's nice you're sticking up for him. His misperfections are usually, according to him, caused by the distorting gravity fields of other things. I think we'd all benefit from his thoughts being more clearly expressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
On the topic. I like discounts when I can get them but demanding comps because of your magnificent presence is an unfair burden on us all. However a full cert offering his services for a clinic or a lesson should be rewarded with a pass for the day . I'd endorse that in a heartbeat. I see it as a good way to get some new input in the teaching at any resort.
I agree with you there but what's to endorse? Are we making a petition that ski areas are required to do such things? How bizarre.
post #56 of 126
Throughout this thread I don't see any posts where anyone suggests they 'expect', 'require', 'demand' nor 'have a right to' free skiing nor free passes nor discounts.

In all cases people supporting the idea have suggested reasons why it might make sense to do it and have given reasons why supporting well-trained instructors in this manner benefits the areas.

I see that it's only the people decrying the idea who make a point of suggesting there is a demeanor of 'demand' or who suggest there is a belief in a 'right' to such a thing. None of the supporters have taken such a position, only those who oppose the idea have implied such a position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevesmith7
Looks like you've got things backwards here. Give "ME" some free skiing because I'm a ski instructor. Why stop there? I'm old, I should ski free too. Heh, I'm young, let me in free. What about me, I'm left handed?
This is just a classic "If one, then All" fallacious argument. It amounts to nothing more than a demand that no one get anything extra unless everyone else gets the same thing also. There is no reason at all to criticize a person (or group) for requesting special arrangements based on their own situation. All of us do the same when buying a car. Only a fool doesn't make the attempt to get a price below List Price by talking about their own situation and what they'd like to pay and what they'd like to get for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevesmith7
Problem is your considerate , sharing world is a world with nothing to share. Remember, a business has only one reason to pay or give you anything and that's because they believe by doing so they will receive greater value in return for what they put out.
This is utterly false. Businesses and people do all kinds of things that are not 'to their own advantage'. Sometimes we do things that are advantageous in the long run rather than the short run. We also take actions that 'seem right' to us with no consideration for the detrimental effect it might have on our business. "Businesses" do this all the time, or rather, the People in businesses do (as a business is an artificial entity). Capitalism is based on comparative advantage, not "Take the maximum you can get, always".

This is what I meant about the last 8 years. Virtually every political and economic policy and every bit of meaningful legislation that came out at the Federal level promoted Immediate Gain, Only Gain, and for the sake of Gain... and look where we are now. 'Me First, Me Only' economics always fails at some point. And what solutions are now being enacted to solve all the problems created? Sharing the Wealth a little more widely...

I've been in consulting many years now and often work for clients without billing them - or bill them way fewer hours than I put in. I do it with no expectation of reward yet what goes around, comes around and I get business from people I've never heard of because they've heard of me. There is no 'planning' on my part in this. I just help people because they need help and I can do it. I can't even recall the last time I 'put myself first' and yet, I do just fine.

I think Harry Morgan presented most of the legitimate points.

Tog pretty well missed the point by suggesting anyone (especially me) was suggesting, (as he put it): "I see the 'I have a right to a free pass' as a 'Me First, Me Only' statement." At no point did I nor anyone else say "I have a Right to...". I think that was embellished to artificially portray an unsavory or selfish image on those supporting the OP idea.

.ma
post #57 of 126
Well I guess I should have said "begging".
Posted by epic:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn
It seems too much like begging for me. I am happy when I offered a professional courtesy. But it is a courtesy to be offered by the vendor, not something that should be asked for by the pro.

I agree. That's why I haven't even looked at the petition.
If this is the original: from Kate's (aka Wonder Woman) Shower blog
Quote:

Click on the pic to say YOU'D go to Level 3 certificaiton if you could ski free anywhere in the country. You don't have to be a current ski instructor to be interested and click!
Then the whole thing is just a voting issue anyway no? Thus most of our comments have nothing to do with the 'petition' which is not a petition?
post #58 of 126
As a Level 3 instructor I would love to get free skiing anywhere in the country, however I also understand the resorts perspective and the loss in revenue that could represent. However, as someone who is organizationally involved in ski instruction in a couple of countries, I would very much like to reciprocity for ISIA qualified instructors be standardized (whatever that standard may end up being)
post #59 of 126
Hi, Guys! Sorry, it took me a while to find the thread, I'd hear we were chatting about it on Epic, which I'm excited about!

Here is the actual concept behind the Full Cert Free Ride Petition, so you can see what I'm driving at. I'm interested in hearing discussions for and against, from people at all levels.

Let me first say, that I come from the Rock Climbing industry, which has a strong culture of dirtbag courtesy, as in, make a friend, crash on their couch, if you are a coach or a manager of a certain level, you climb for free at their gym, because you get to hang out and chat about things like routsetting, how they run their comps, places they've traveled, and other people you might meet. You become a better climber, and the industry as a whole feels like a wecoming community. That's where the idea started.

Then, I talked with some ski school directors and trainers in several different divisions about what it would be like to offer a similar idea for full cert instructors. (Stay with me here, just for a minute) and here's why:

1. With a carrot like FCFR at the end, more people would join PSIA (In the Facebook event, which reached 500 members in 2 months, there were dozens of people who had left PSIA or stopped trying for cert because they couldn't afford it and the pay bump they got from their ski area was so small it didn't make it worth it to them.) So membership attrition for national PSIA goes down, membership numbers may go up.

2. Divisions increase revenue because more people are exctied to train, because of this carrot.

3. Overall training goes up, which means no matter how many actually make and pass their full cert, the product each ski area is offering is of higher quality because the general locker room population is psyched to train.

4. Because most of us don't make that much money, we can scrape together enough to share gas, and eat granola, and have met enough folks to crash on couches, or in our trucks, but no one can afford $40 - $70 discounted lift tickets. Free pass for full certs offers high level instructors an opportunity to travel inter-divisionally as visiting pros.

5. National standards begin to even out, because there is more inter division discussion. Each division still has their strong point, their focus, but pros come home sharing things they have learned at new areas.

6. Pros get a chance to learn new areas, so when their clients tell them, "We are going to ski on the East Coast in the spring because my wife's family is out there, where should we go, we have two intermediate level skier kids." You'll know an answer to that if you have visited! AND if you went as a visiting pro, you will know a couple of instructors you can recommend personally.

7. Overall, pros can exchange ideas, make friends, capitalize on friendships they have made at places like Academy, look for work at new areas, afford to ski, learn new progressions and training ideas, promote a community based ski instructor industry, bring back the dirt bag lifestyle, and share their adventures with others.

Now, the big question: CAN it ever happen??

I've talked to a couple of ski school directors who think it can. It will probably take us about three years to get it completely from concept to inception on a nation wide level, but here is what we are thinking:

When you pass your 3, you get a pass with a barcode on it. This way you don't have to BOTHER your ski school director for a letter, and an MSAA card, and then go to the ski school director where you are visiting on your knees and bother them when they are busy, and have them photocopy your letter, pass, msaa card, and get a $15 - $25 discount on a lift ticket.

You simply present your pass at the regular window, get scanned and get a lift ticket, or we work it so it scans in the lift lines. NO administrative hassle, or begging. Just a professional courtesy, as in the climbing and golf industry for those who are truly committed to and love their sport.

What should the visiting pro do? Email ahead to folks they've met at that resort and visit when its appropriate, go out to dinner or drinks with their colleagues, meet the other pros, say thanks, and be open to and eager to see how things run at places other than the place that you work, you just might learn something and bring some great customer service knowledge or technical training home with you!

While this is a bear of a project, the ultimate goal is a program that benefits the ski areas, PSIA, the divisions, and the ski instructors, bringing us together as an industry of Professionals who are eager to meet others who share our passion and share.

For those of you that want to join the facebook group, you can visit this link:http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49914568622

and for those of you that would like to read the FAQ on the website about Full Cert Free Ride (which I need to update) visit here:http://web.mac.com/katehowe/iWeb/Ful...Q/Welcome.html

and for those of you that would like to sign the petition, which simply says you think this is an idea with merit that is worth looking into further, visit this link: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Full-Cert-Free-Ride

At any of these places, you can leave a comment or a question, for or against the idea, which I will do my best to answer on the FAQ. After about 6 months, we'll colate the responses and meet with PSIA national about where to go from there.

Thank you so much for your time and consideration!

Kate Howe
http://www.skiingintheshower.blogspot.com
post #60 of 126
Kate, welcome back. I was asking about you just the other day after seeing your blog. What are the plans for this year?
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