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When is a foam ski -- skied out??

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Ok, this question begs to be asked here.
I see threads talking about foam cores and being skied out? Personally I bought a pair of 2004/05 Rossi B3's.. These skis still have camber to them and looked like new even though they were use. There camber is not near as much as my metrons, however I asumed this was do to the difference in ski typs.

Am i incorect?
post #2 of 24
The crass answer is......its skied out the first time you ski it. I just have never been a fan of foam skis. How many times have you skied on them? How do they feel when you ski on them? Any real reason to keep them?
post #3 of 24
Some skis have camber some have none, even carving skis. Not sure camber matters much at all.
post #4 of 24
I have the same year Rossi B2
I feel that I ski the same or better than when I first got them. However, I think that is from practice. It would be interesting to examine the foam cores after they have been skied and to do some mechanical testing if it has not been done allready.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have only skied these around 5 times and see no problem.. the only reason to keep them is for my out west trip once a year. Being from Michigan this is not the ski of choice for in state skiing.
post #6 of 24
from what I have gathered on the subject, all foam skis are not created equally. synthetic cores are made up as sheets and laminated into a metal sandwich in the Rossignol B series and some other very high quality skis. this is not the same as foam injected, where the foam layer is less stable and not laminated with other materials. a laminated foam core may be as powerful and durable as a wood core. rossignol has long been concerned with dampening to improve edge control, and a foam core does tend to be more damp, less rebound,snap and pop. that is my sense of the lore on the subject, and I own the B-Squad with a foam core and it is awesome in crud and hard snow as well as powder.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
a foam core does tend to be more damp, less rebound,snap and pop.
I have found the foam cores I have owned are less damp and have more rebound. I am not a big fan of the form core, they just don't have a solid feel under foot. I buy only woodcore skis, now. With that said, I have read that the core is nothing but a base to put performance materials around like, fiberglass, metal, carbon etc....
post #8 of 24
Another thread on this right now. Syn core Rossis "ski out" a touch faster than some other brands IMO, can't say if it's the type of syn or what. Could be planned obsolescence. But you'd have to put some serious loads on them for a long season (as in 100+ days) to break them down enough to feel any diff, in my experience (have owned a slew of Rossis).

OTOH, other syn core brands (think Stockli or Dynastar or Atomic) last as long or longer than wood core brands. Stocklis in fact seem to be immortal. So don't think you can draw a conclusion for ALL "foam" core skis.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8suj View Post
I have only skied these around 5 times and see no problem.. the only reason to keep them is for my out west trip once a year. Being from Michigan this is not the ski of choice for in state skiing.
Sounds like it will be many years before you ski these out.

Not an expert, but I would say that a ski is "skied out" when the camber and rebound are less than when you first used them.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post
Sounds like it will be many years before you ski these out.

Not an expert, but I would say that a ski is "skied out" when the camber and rebound are less than when you first used them.
...and torsional rigidity.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
..........So don't think you can draw a conclusion for ALL "foam" core skis.
Spot on. There are synthetic skis out there (G9, 4G, Omeglass, 710's, various Langes) that are still stout after more than a decade of use. Yet there are wood skis (TNC's for example) that were noodles after 30 days.

It depends upon how they are built way more than what's in the core.

SJ
post #12 of 24
I think that a foam skis life depends on the composite that the foam is wrapped in. Carbon fiber is the strongest such composite thus its sturcture will fatigue less than that of a fibre glass wrapped foam core. Epoxy quality also has a big influence as without it carbon fiber and fiber glass are as stiff as a piece of thick paper. Also the epoxy curring process can add certain quality's to the composite. Vacuum and heat curred composites will have a higher fatigue strength than a composite thats been epoxied and left out to dry in an open room.
post #13 of 24
If it looks like a U and not an "n" then its skied out.
If it feels like you are wearing clowns feet with edges, then its skied out.
If there just isnt that pop, then its skied out.


There are foam skis and then there are composite skis. I have wood and I have composite skis. Composite layup skis, feel like wood skis and are about as heavy, stiff, and durable. Foam skis feel like you have two plastic tubes on your feet, they are light weight, but from what I have seen not very durable.
post #14 of 24
I had Rossi B2's a few years back (my wife still has her pair).

I felt they were done in 6 months. By the end of the year, the life was gone - much the same as foamed K2's I previously owned.

My wife skied B2's longer than me, but came to the same conclusion in her 2nd year (she's a gentle skier - I'm not).

I've also owned 3 pair of Atomic Metrons (B:5's, M:9's and M:EX's). All were milled from a composite reinforced with Atomic's Beta lobes. Those skis did NOT die. They'll probably outlive me, and they perform well.

I've concluded I prefer the feel of wood-core skies. To me, the difference isn't subtle.
post #15 of 24
The foam junk ski is myth devised by those loyal to heavy wood core skis such as voykl and others. I just retired a pair of Rossi B2's that had well over 300 days on them and they still skied like day one other than the base and sidewalls had too many days of rocks and logs from backcountry excursions.

This fantasy is all derived from falsehoods.
post #16 of 24
For me it's Wood. Synthetic, foam and carbon cores have their place but not on my feet.
post #17 of 24
On about the 7th day of riding foam is completely dead unless you are slowly cruising the greens and blue with not energy input into (or returned from) the ski.

If you drive the ski, foam breaks down fast.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by iscariot View Post
On about the 7th day of riding foam is completely dead unless you are slowly cruising the greens and blue with not energy input into (or returned from) the ski.

If you drive the ski, foam breaks down fast.
Nonsense. Some maybe but certainly not all.

Someday try out a G9, 3G/4G, old Omeglass Equipe, old Lange Killy KR (SL or GS).

Oh....and don't forget your helmet when you do so. Any of those decades old foam skis can still spank you if you digress.

SJ
post #19 of 24
Any ski, reguardless of construction is "skied out" when there is a noticable decrease in performance. After a while any ski will loses its pop and rebound. Sometimes you see a visible loss of camber, sometimes not. Wood laminate skis break down under hard use as well, not just foam. Just because the ski breaks down doesn't mean it is dead. Usually fo rcarving skis you want that extrap pop. But I prefer a ski that is well broken in skiing bumps for example...
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
Any ski, reguardless of construction is "skied out" when there is a noticable decrease in performance. After a while any ski will loses its pop and rebound. Sometimes you see a visible loss of camber, sometimes not. Wood laminate skis break down under hard use as well, not just foam. Just because the ski breaks down doesn't mean it is dead. Usually fo rcarving skis you want that extrap pop. But I prefer a ski that is well broken in skiing bumps for example...
+1. When a ski fades from lively to damp, I think it is now ready for moguls (at least the way I ski them).
post #21 of 24
Regardless of our individual preferences, the trend is clear.

If you compare ski shop racks 4 years ago, vs. today, the difference isn't subtle. Foam (composite) has faded while wood has stormed back.

Salomon, Rossignol, and even Atomic, are reverting back to wood. Blizzard, Volkl, Nordica and K2 dominate with wood.

Somewhere along the line, foam lost its appeal.

Maybe it had something to do with those pesky Pocket Rockets.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strato View Post
Maybe it had something to do with those pesky Pocket Rockets.
They don't call them blue pool noodles for no reason.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strato View Post
Regardless of our individual preferences, the trend is clear.

If you compare ski shop racks 4 years ago, vs. today, the difference isn't subtle. Foam (composite) has faded while wood has stormed back.

Salomon, Rossignol, and even Atomic, are reverting back to wood. Blizzard, Volkl, Nordica and K2 dominate with wood.

Somewhere along the line, foam lost its appeal.

Maybe it had something to do with those pesky Pocket Rockets.
It is nothing more than marketing. Foam skis ran their course and now the manufacturers will concentrate on wood until it is time to introduce the latest and greatest ski ever made with a revolutionary modern day foam core that will take the skier to magical heights.
post #24 of 24
The "stiffness" (e.g. spring constant) of a ski is determined by the type of construction and the materials used. The foam in the core of skis is not a major contributor to the structural stiffness of the ski and typically do not "wear out". Depending on construction type (torsion box, laminated layers, cap, etc.), it is the fiberglass, composite, or metal layers of the ski that define the stiffness of the ski and it is those members that "wear out". Foam is used as a core material simply because it weighed less than other core materials (i.e. wood) and did not significantly change the ski characteristics, allowing the ski designer to focus on the other construction components to achieve the desired longitudinal and torsional stiffness. Wood cores, on the other hand, do contribute to the stiffness of the ski and can wear out. Remember, the old Hexcels had hollow cores (air). Bottom line, foam does not "wear out" like other ski materials.
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