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Are rockered skis faster in deep snow?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Haven’t had much experience with rockered skis yet, but because I am a big guy one of the things I like about deep snow is that it will slow me down, even while skiing in the fall line. I like the feel of the pressure on my tips and being able to control my speed to some extent by the amount I lean on them. Sometimes the heavier the snow the more I like it because I don’t have to turn to slow down or speed up but simply adjust fore/aft weighting slightly.

Isn’t this completely changed with rockered skis? The heavier the snow the more the rockered tips want to climb on top. It seems to me they would tend to go faster than conventional skis in deep snow, and that this element would increase as the snow gets heavier. I understand the added smoothness and maneuverability that rocker can provide, but doesn’t more tip rocker tend to translate into more speed in deep snow, all other things being equal?
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
Haven’t had much experience with rockered skis yet, but because I am a big guy one of the things I like about deep snow is that it will slow me down, even while skiing in the fall line. I like the feel of the pressure on my tips and being able to control my speed to some extent by the amount I lean on them. Sometimes the heavier the snow the more I like it because I don’t have to turn to slow down or speed up but simply adjust fore/aft weighting slightly.

Isn’t this completely changed with rockered skis? The heavier the snow the more the rockered tips want to climb on top. It seems to me they would tend to go faster than conventional skis in deep snow, and that this element would increase as the snow gets heavier. I understand the added smoothness and maneuverability that rocker can provide, but doesn’t more tip rocker tend to translate into more speed in deep snow, all other things being equal?
yes they are faster and yes they generally climb to the top easier as well. everything you think is right on. You will not float on top of dry snow like everything else they will still sub on really light stuff.

if you want to turn more and skiing a slower line faster than what you do now then I would try them. If being able to adjust speed by leaning forward or back then dont get them.

one thing your forgetting about is the ability to go slower. You can go much slower on reverse camber skis if you want to.

and you can make more dynamic turn on reverse camber.

so why even ask the question? honestly you knew the answer. You could demo a pair if you wanted....


now for another why I am right and your wrong rant which is kinda of off topic

weight has very little to with how fast you go, how fast you go is up to you. personally I gained speed as I lost weight. and just because your a 'big" guy has nothing to do with powder slowing you down. Its slows everyone down. if I had to guess the amount its slows people down of different weights is nearly the same.

this is along the lines of the argument that kids have lower center of mass. sure its lower to the ground, but proportional to an adult its actually higher in their body. If a lower of center of mass was such a advantage in skiing every girl out there would kick every guys ass cause not only is their center of mass lower its lower proportionally.

so while you keep claiming that being a 'big' guy makes you go faster try this next time there is a powder day.

find an easy slope that you can barely move going straight down straight run its a couple time see the average distance then add 30lb to your weight. straight run it a couple more time and see the average distance. I would be willing to bet that give the same skis and skier that the difference is so small that its almost undetectable.
post #3 of 13
How is he going to add 30 lbs? Is there a Golden Corral buffet slopeside?
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post
How is he going to add 30 lbs? Is there a Golden Corral buffet slopeside?
grab a backpack, my only point is a person weight isnt that much of a factor to how fast they ski....
post #5 of 13
Okay, only kidding. I agree with you.
post #6 of 13
In deep powder same guy, same skis with added weight will go slower cause he'll sink more.
JF
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
BushwackerinPA:

You know from your biking how strength to weight ratio effects climbing. I am stronger than the guys I ride with on the flats and rollers, but once the grade ramps up to a certain point I cannot keep up. It is the same thing skiing, although I have strong legs I still have a slightly harder fight with gravity because of my strength to weight ratio.

Maybe it's the same for everybody, but I like the feeling of being able to relax in the fall line that comes with snow resistance on my tips. I probably ski faster because I don't have to turn so much to control my speed. I really enjoy being able to use forward lean to control my speed instead of my muscles, which is why I like my Kryptons so much because they give me great sensitivity on the "accelerator."

Stand on a steep hill and try to stop a big rock and small rock rolling at you from the same point. It takes more muscle to slow down the big rock. I'm just looking for the most benefit I can get from my equipment in the constant gravity play of skiing. I'll definitely try some rockers, but I was curious as to others' impressions of the speed/resistence difference from regular flex skis.
post #8 of 13
Mudfoot,
As per our conversation on the other thread, I am probably ordering a pair of either the Czar or the Anti-piste. Ask me later in the season, & I'll let you know if I can still slow down in the powder.
JF
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
4ster:

It's not a matter of slowing down, it's your options on how you can do it. Tip rocker lets you do it in new ways but sacrifices one of the old methods, which happens to be my favorite. You can always slow down by turning, but being able to do it in the fall line without turning is a skill I have been honing for decades, and I would hate to lose it, but maybe rockers are so much better it won't matter. I'll be interested to hear your impressions, although I believe both those skis have minimal "early rise" compared to many others currently on the market.
post #10 of 13
The closer to "traditional" a rockered ski is, the more traditionally it'll behave. Duh... Adding a bit of tip rocker to a ski design will not make it behave just like a Spat or Praxis. Or even a Kuro, Pontoon, 138, ARG, etc. Yes, it'll change how fast it planes to the surface. And likely make the ski looser. And probably reduce the need for that bounce-bounce thing. But a pinch of tip rocker will not make a ski a slarve machine. Obviously there is a continuum of design points & the designer's use of rocker or reverse camber and reverse or hybrid sidecut will determine where a given ski lands in that space.

At least for me - reverse/reverse Praxis, and hybrids skewed toward that design point, have opened up a ton of options in deep snow. You can pivot centered from the feet and scrub speed and/or change direction. Throw the tails down - and again, pick your proportion of direction change and putting the brakes on. Wanna dive a little deeper - just weight the tips and dive a bit. And you can always arc them into a "carve" that'd be borderline impossible on typical conventional skis.

And they have the huge benefit of not demanding that half your technique is wasted energy bouncing up and down just to defeat the foundational design elements of your ski...
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
4ster:

It's not a matter of slowing down, it's your options on how you can do it. Tip rocker lets you do it in new ways but sacrifices one of the old methods, which happens to be my favorite. You can always slow down by turning, but being able to do it in the fall line without turning is a skill I have been honing for decades, and I would hate to lose it, but maybe rockers are so much better it won't matter. I'll be interested to hear your impressions, although I believe both those skis have minimal "early rise" compared to many others currently on the market.
I hear you Mudfoot. I often use the same method especially in cut up snow. I will look for an island of deep to slow me down.

Last spring while skiing in Haines, the group I was with were trying out this years Atomic Big Daddys with minimal tip rocker. Their impression was that it was nearly impossible to get too far forward, dive the tip & bog down. In that situation it was seen as a positive aspect of the design. for what you are talking about, I think it would have some affect.

JF
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
now for another why I am right and your wrong rant which is kinda of off topic

weight has very little to with how fast you go, how fast you go is up to you. personally I gained speed as I lost weight. and just because your a 'big" guy has nothing to do with powder slowing you down. Its slows everyone down. if I had to guess the amount its slows people down of different weights is nearly the same.
Much as I enjoy any why-I-am-right rant, specially yours, have to cut in and say that lift will increase as weight decreases, vice versa. Just the math of it. All else equal, if you're heavier, in powder you'll sink more (less lift), which will increase drag, slow you down. Whether this feels like a big deal or a small one probably in the mind of the skier...
post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
The closer to "traditional" a rockered ski is, the more traditionally it'll behave. Duh... Adding a bit of tip rocker to a ski design will not make it behave just like a Spat or Praxis. Or even a Kuro, Pontoon, 138, ARG, etc. Yes, it'll change how fast it planes to the surface. And likely make the ski looser. And probably reduce the need for that bounce-bounce thing. But a pinch of tip rocker will not make a ski a slarve machine. Obviously there is a continuum of design points & the designer's use of rocker or reverse camber and reverse or hybrid sidecut will determine where a given ski lands in that space.

At least for me - reverse/reverse Praxis, and hybrids skewed toward that design point, have opened up a ton of options in deep snow. You can pivot centered from the feet and scrub speed and/or change direction. Throw the tails down - and again, pick your proportion of direction change and putting the brakes on. Wanna dive a little deeper - just weight the tips and dive a bit. And you can always arc them into a "carve" that'd be borderline impossible on typical conventional skis.

And they have the huge benefit of not demanding that half your technique is wasted energy bouncing up and down just to defeat the foundational design elements of your ski...
Once you have a good rhythm, a nice powder ski will do most of the bouncing for you.
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