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Subaru Outback VS VW Passat Wagon - Page 3

post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
This is a classic "opinions can vary" example. I guess I have been lucky with the 5 BMWs I've owned.
BMWs are great, but BWinPA could probably back up his point empirically. They aren't cheap to operate and they aren't the most reliable bits of 4 wheeled transportation. And sorry, but iDrive is indefensible design. As are two ton 3-series.

Of course, reliable and cheap is often boring. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone drove a Civic.
post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
BMWs are great, but BWinPA could probably back up his point empirically. They aren't cheap to operate and they aren't the most reliable bits of 4 wheeled transportation. And sorry, but iDrive is indefensible design. As are two ton 3-series.

Of course, reliable and cheap is often boring. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone drove a Civic.
reliable cheap yes boring only what you make of it. Old civics have the potential to be the best handling of any FWD cars ever produce. I routinely made E36 m3 cry for mercy in my civic.

to be fair though I even think that BMW drive great, but after friends who owned them and just nothing but expensive problems while my hondas were beat on to no end and just kept ticking it would be hard for me to ever buy one.
post #63 of 72
I saw go with the Subaru of the two. I have friends that own both brands and I have seen more problems with the VWs than the Subaru's. Both seem to have more problems than normal though.
post #64 of 72
good point. They were (with the exception of a few specialty models) pretty boring stock though.
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
BMWs are great, but BWinPA could probably back up his point empirically. They aren't cheap to operate and they aren't the most reliable bits of 4 wheeled transportation. And sorry, but iDrive is indefensible design. As are two ton 3-series.

Of course, reliable and cheap is often boring. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone drove a Civic.
Yeah, I agree that when BMWs break, they're expensive. Mebbe, I shouldn't have said I'm lucky; mebbe I should share some tips on BMW buying that might have helped me avoid the lemons that some other BMW drivers got: a) don't buy the first year of any BMW model; b) don't buy a 5 or 7 series, unless it's the last year of that version; and c) go on www.bimmerfest.com or a similar website to find out what the particular weaknesses in a model/model year are (no car is perfect), and make sure those problems have been handled or watch for and allow for repairs on those problems.

Yeah, the newer/larger 3 series is why there's a 1 series (the new 3 is the same size as the old 5). FWIW, if I wanted a play car instead of an education fund for my daughter, I'd prolly get a 1999 M3. Fast, cheap to buy (now) but can still fit a mtb in the back...

Somewhat back on topic, here are some reliability ratings for 2005 vehicles, if you're considering used cars:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ity-list_N.htm
post #66 of 72
The best advice I ever heard about cars: Don't ever buy a car solely based on perceived reliability. All cars break. Therefore, drive what you like to drive. It's much more frustrating paying to fix a car you don't really like and only bought thinking it wouldn't break.

AM.
post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Of course, reliable and cheap is often boring. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone drove a Civic.

I don't believe you just said that about Civic's. Obviously you've never seen the number of fast Civic's out there. Our's ran low 11's with a 1.6L engine when it was still streetable. There are a ton of 10 second 1/4 mile Civics that guys drive everyday. Last year our Civic ran the 1/4 mile in 9.85 and went 145.7mph.

That same 1992Si Civic took 4 of us to VT on many weekends in 93 to 95 then every weekend in winter for the 96 season until I got my first Subie Mar 98. That civic never had snow tires and never got stuck.

Back on topic.

IMO buy a subie, there are so many in VT and NH, parts are easy to get.
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
I don't believe you just said that about Civic's.
Geez, you'd think I trashed the iPhone or something.

Stock Civics=largely boring. Is that clear enough for you? I didn't realize this was a thread about fun toys or automobile enthusiasts.
post #69 of 72
Honda's and Civic's have a great feel. There is just something about certain models. If you've ever has a EG, 92-95 Hatch you would understand. To bad they rust over the rear tires.

Sorry some of us get carried away sometime. Lastly I'll say some Honda's have a feel that as you sit in them, they say welcome, relax and enjoy.
post #70 of 72
I've been driving AWD cars {mostly wagons} for years, starting with a VW Synchro in 1987. Last three have been a Volvo V70R, a Passat W8 {w/4 motion}, and a 2005 Legacy GT wagon which I bought used last fall. The only used one of the bunch. I drive 30K miles a year, through some lousy weather. Bottom line, I would not even think about a used Passat. I bought mine new with a 100K extended warranty, and sold it with 95K miles as I would never own that car without a warranty.


I was actually fairly lucky with mine, but then again I'm a maintenance nut. But I have many friends with the V6 4motion that have had huge problems. My second highlight is that I have become an enormous Subie fan. A year and a half ago we decided to buy a 2002 H6 Outback with VDC for our daughter. Ski racer driving in northern New England. We put 4 Nokian RSI's on it. It is without question THE BEST car that I have ever driven in snow and ice. It's phenomenal. It runs on regular gas, and we have found a tremendous indy shop that does quality work at $55/hr. And it's a lot more fun in the dry and summer than people give it credit for.

That got me looking for a LGT wagon to replace the W8. I could not be more pleased. I've got good tires and wheels on it and I, too have a Stage I AP in it. Better brakes, too. So far, so great. Other cars in the family are a Landcruiser, and an Audi C4S6 Avant{wagon}. We'll own the LC "forever". 178K miles and going strong. But, I suspect that we'll relegate it to non daily use, and look for a good used 3.0R Outback. The Audi is our son's, and he's a "wrench"...great piece of machinery if you can do your own work, like to fiddle with it, and can deal with down periods. He may buy a beater Subie as a back-up.

I would not hestitate to buy a used Subie with a solid service history, at all. Our Outback was purchased through the dealer who sold it new, and serviced it. Older couple who trades cars every 5 years...at just short of 50K miles. I saw every service record, and spoke with the former owner. The car is tight, and runs {knock on wood} perfectly. The LGT came with a similar set of complete records, and a clean history.

Today's Subies are really very well built, nicely appointed cars. And Subie certainly has a lot of AWD experience. Is it as nicely appointed Audi A4? No. Do I expect it to be more reliable? Yes. Am I more comfortable buying a slightly used depreciated Subie than most any other AWD car? Yes. I think that they are every bit as nice a car as a Passat. My W8 was a hell of a car, 270 real HP, and almost 300 lbs of 8 cylinder AWD torque. Four studded high performance snows. I prefer the LGT in any condition, though. I do miss the engine rumble of the W8.

Our subie shop has loaners. My wife had a legacy wagon for a day with 360K miles on it, and it was in pretty amazing shape.

I'm a convert. And we're a family that unknowingly dumped on Subies for years. Then we woke up and realized that almost all of our friends who live in ski country, throughout the country, have at least one Subie in the driveway. Check into the Subie.
Depending on your budget, you have a lot of options.

For kicks, when you're on the road some day count how many you see over a 15 minute period where you are. You'll be amazed.
post #71 of 72
In my opinion, you don't "need" an AWD car in New Hampshire. Any reliable FWD car with good snow tires will work just fine. Subaru is a very expensive used car. Why deal with the 2 MPG fuel economy hit or pay the extra money for an AWD system that you don't use?

I own a VW as my daily driver. My last VW racked up 141,000 miles and only had one mechanical issue. I always get the 100K extended warranty and drive the car until it has so many miles that I'm concerned about reliability.

That said, I wouldn't buy a used VW unless I knew the first owner and had all the service records.

My mom and my sister have driven Subarus since the 1970's. They're cars. They break. They're one of the few small station wagons on the market but they feel cramped if you're a 6 footer. I've driven many miles in all kinds of Subarus and I really don't fit in the car. A Passat will give you much more legroom and headroom. The car drives much better. The interior is much nicer. The reliability of VW has gotten much better over the last half-dozen years. If I were picking between two new cars, I'd pick the Passat.
post #72 of 72
I owned a VW that I easily put 200K on with less than expected mechanical expenses. I got through some of the worst white knuckle blizzards and ice storms imaginable (Minnesota, Colorado, New Mexico, Pretty much Texas to Canada and NY to AZ) without EVER getting stuck or wrecking. That said, I'd take a Subie for a ski trip over any VW any day any time. Why has this thread gone past two posts?
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