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Worst Season Ever? - Vail - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiNebraski View Post
Lastly one "below average" year isn't going to kill the vail monster,
No it won't, the rich don't suffer as much as the working class.

And it will kill the dreams and plans of a lot of people who work in vail.

Taking pleasure in other's misfortunes is not a good thing.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Seasons are judged by how much snow falls, not by how many people show up. Or at least that's how skiers judge winters.
Quote of the day!!!!

Skiers will make plans to ski when the snow comes.
post #33 of 58
What about skiers who are fulltime professional skiers, those who live at and off of the resorts? How do they judge a winter?

How about Instructors? Do they ONLY judge the winter by amount of snow? I would think a fulltime Instructor would also judge the winter by their ability to support themselves.

Sorry broken record. I'm out.
post #34 of 58
I've gotta say I'm with you SMJ. Luckily for me I've already got this season planned out in Fernie, but when I eventually start instructing full time I'm going to be a bit worried if this whole debacle dosent snap out of it.

You have to admit that for the average joe who is trying to make a living via the mountain it may be a tough year.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
What about skiers who are fulltime professional skiers, those who live at and off of the resorts? How do they judge a winter?

How about Instructors? Do they ONLY judge the winter by amount of snow? I would think a fulltime Instructor would also judge the winter by their ability to support themselves.

Sorry broken record. I'm out.
I agree with you on that point, but this begs the question if resorts like Vail should begin offering some affordable packages to entice the travelers.
I have no opinion of Vail, one way or the other, however, I see a huge lift line at Abasin for the WROD, which is a whole different group than the stereo-typical Vail vacationer.

Target group is everything.
post #36 of 58
There are so many different types of skiers. Many people in Colorado take advantage of the reasonably priced passes. My guess is most of those people standing in line at A-Basin right now are season pass holders and are not buying a daily lift ticket to ski on a couple of runs.

The full time instructors depend on lesson business for income, health insurance etc. so lesson volume is critical for them. The poor economy may have an effect on these people. Factor in the restaurants, rental shops etc as well as income from real estate transfer taxes to provide town services such as rec centers, free bus transportation and the slow economy can be devastating.

The resorts have many part time instructors, either retirees or people who have other jobs and do part time for the pass benefits, clinic benefits or locker benefits. The resorts do not usually pass up any chances to sell lessons, especially private lessons which are very profitable for the resort. The resorts will put 20-25 people in a lesson during busy times.

I certainly prefer an uncrowded ski area and would rather teach a lesson of 6-8 as opposed to 20-25. However, I do not make my living from teaching skiing.

To comment on the overall effect on the ski town economy is beyond my ability level. However, I can't work up too much sympathy for some of the Vail corporate execs who have enjoyed lucrative bonus money in the good years. I do sympathize with instructors, shop owners etc. who will take the major blow from a less than stellar season.

The resorts' criteria for a good season are bottom line profits.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post
I do sympathize with instructors, shop owners etc. who will take the major blow from a less than stellar season.

The resorts' criteria for a good season are bottom line profits.
And THAT is the saddest part of the equation. Those are the folks I really feel sad for.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Seasons are judged by how much snow falls, not by how many people show up. Or at least that's how skiers judge winters.

If you consider a winter to be "worst" because swarms of hobbyists fail to crowd the mountains, you should probably check your perspective.


Unless you work there, in which case... That could suck . Let's just hope for snow, as the faithful will be there no matter what.


IF YOU DUMP IT, THEY WILL COME!
post #39 of 58
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=68452

Boy will it be a cluster f&*$ in Vail next year! I think VA's shooting themselves in the foot. I guess they feel they will make up for the lost destination skiers with a lot of parking revenue.

I feel sorry for anyone that owns a lodge, ski shop or a nice restaurant in Vail.

- I guess I left out instructors.

Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps in this economy it will be a very astute business move to change your model to favor day skiers. I do know that if I was a destination skier, paying big bucks. I wouldn't book Vail solely because of the Epic Pass.
post #40 of 58
I for one will not be skiing Vail this season.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
I for one will not be skiing Vail this season.
Why doesn't that surprise me?

As a dumb girl from the midwest, perhaps someone can explain this to me.
I have gotten the Abasin Bonus Pass for the past two seasons, and have skied A-basin, Breckenridge, and Keystone, on this pass.
There really hasn't been a reason to NOT go to Vail or BC, it just hasn't fallen into play on our trips.
So, Why is it that I keep hearing that I NEED to hit Vail, or that I've totally missed out because I didn't use my Vail Ticket?
I honestly had gobs of fun, and don't feel as though I missed out on much besides letting an opportunity to hike the East Wall slip through my fingers.
Am I really missing something?
Legit question, please don't flame me!
Quote:
For those who are not aware, This is what the A-basin bonus pass includes
  • Unlimited, unrestricted access to A-Basin during the 08/09 season
  • 5 unrestricted, non-transferable days to use at Keystone or Breckenridge
  • 1 of the 5 days may be used at either Vail or Beaver Creek*
  • 5 unrestricted days at Bear Valley, CA
  • Present your pass at the A-Basin ticket window and receive discounted tickets for friends and family
  • Free 2.5 hr. group lesson with the A-Basin Snowsports School**
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
Why doesn't that surprise me?

As a dumb girl from the midwest, perhaps someone can explain this to me.
I have gotten the Abasin Bonus Pass for the past two seasons, and have skied A-basin, Breckenridge, and Keystone, on this pass.
There really hasn't been a reason to NOT go to Vail or BC, it just hasn't fallen into play on our trips.
So, Why is it that I keep hearing that I NEED to hit Vail, or that I've totally missed out because I didn't use my Vail Ticket?
I honestly had gobs of fun, and don't feel as though I missed out on much besides letting an opportunity to hike the East Wall slip through my fingers.
Am I really missing something?
Legit question, please don't flame me!
No flaming from me.


From my point of view, it's not a matter of whether you can and did have fun at those mountains, I was at several of those ski days and can attest that much fun was had. But, Vail has this certain awesomeness in it's vast expanse. It's bowls and trees and hidden stashes are so varied and it's a lot of fun to experience. I do hope that at some point this season you make it to Vail and I do think you'll enjoy it with the right guides (don't try to do it alone, it's so big that it can get frustrating). While I love Vail it truly is a toss up for me as to whether I like Vail or Copper better. Both have wonderful terrain and they each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
No it won't, the rich don't suffer as much as the working class.

And it will kill the dreams and plans of a lot of people who work in vail.

Taking pleasure in other's misfortunes is not a good thing.
I am not taking pleasure in others misfortune. I agree with you on people working but the title of the thread is Worst season ever for VAIL. I thought this thread was about the resort, not the people. I know the people/shops/dealers are going to take a hit. I do think though that less people on the mountain has its advantages(solely based on skiing). Do I feel bad for the lifties/coaches...etc YES. I do think though that this is over exaggerated a bit though. I don't think vail will take as big of a hit as you and everyone on this board has posted thus leaving the smaller guy in a sub par season as far as money is concerned.
post #44 of 58
Not sure if everyone knows this, but Vail Associates owns Breck, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek and Heavenly. I interpreted this thread as referring to Vail the Corporation as opposed to Vail ski area.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post
Not sure if everyone knows this, but Vail Associates owns Breck, Keystone, Vail, Beaver Creek and Heavenly. I interpreted this thread as referring to Vail the Corporation as opposed to Vail ski area.
Understood, as well as Heavenly/BearValley.

I've understood that Keystone is doing okay with reservations, while Vail is struggling.
post #46 of 58
Thread Starter 
Last year I skied 53 days at all the Vail resorts.

I prefer Vail and BC to the Summit resorts.

Crowds are greater at Breck and Keystone because many front-rangers don't make the extra effort to go to Eagle County.

That could change this year with the Epic Pass.

Vail is vast, with endless possibilities. It also gets 50% more snow than the Summit resorts.

Beaver Creek is sublime. It's imbued with an air of civility (money). The mountain has serious steeps - Birds of Prey Downhill - the same snow as Vail, with good powder pockets off Grouse Mountain Express.

There's nothing wrong with Keystone, A-Basin and Breck. They're great resorts with some excellent terrain.

Vail and BC are just really nice.
post #47 of 58
At the end of the day, paying the garage parking at Vail makes the day expensive. I guess you have a choice , a beer somewhere on Bridge Street or paying the parking fee. Forgot about lunch adding to the out of pocket expense. The Colorado Card ammortized against the # of days used becomes the lower of the expenses when everything is reviewed. I tell you what, I've taken the free shuttle back to West Vail many times, even when I had a rental car to save some money. Going up in the AM pretty painless, the shuttle home a real PITA.

I'm real curious how the season will pan out at Vail .Partcicularly for the shop owners. Vail is kind of in its own "universe" attracting a pretty prosperous vacationer. But theese people have lost a lot of wealth the last couple of months.What I appreciate is the thrifty skier can find ways to ski there and not spend a horrible sum of money. Having said that, this is becoming a little harder to do each year as the make over at Vail is eliminating the cheaper hotels.
post #48 of 58
I have a place in Breck. When we go to Vail, there are usually at least 4 or 5 of us. If you split the parking, its not bad. I don't mind paying $5-7 to park near the slope.

Beaver Creek has free parking lots with easy access to the mountain via the lift that is near the parking lots. By taking that lift, you avoid the spectacle at the main village and get straight to the skiing. Very easy access in and out.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDenver View Post




I see it did not take long until the skiing equivalent of the bourgeoisie view of the proletariat surfaced. Careful folks, those volume hobbyists pay the light bills otherwise its lifts out
Although I do not agree with your take on this, I must say I loved you in Gilliagian's Island.
post #50 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post
Beaver Creek has free parking lots with easy access to the mountain via the lift that is near the parking lots. By taking that lift, you avoid the spectacle at the main village and get straight to the skiing. Very easy access in and out.
We heard from Avon locals (regulars at Loaded Joe's), that BC's satellite lots will now be pay-lots.

I hope this isn't true.
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullr View Post
Although I do not agree with your take on this, I must say I loved you in Gilliagian's Island.
The aping of a platitude by some as the post best addressing the otherwise sophisticated business issues left my teeth hurting and wanting for a better educational system. Further thinking the sound of fingernails moving down a chalkboard is marginally better than some reads found here..I see your post Ullr. It’s Bob btw. But thanks, it put all of this back in perspective for me…don’t take serious the Epic cartoon.
post #52 of 58
I lived in Vail for 13 years, through good times and bad, and people never stopped coming. Some years it was all New Yorkers, others it was Front Rangers. Sometimes they spent less on fancy dinners and sometimes more. It seemed to me that Vail's mountain ops were fairly insulated because when the wealthy tourists stayed away their places were take by others. I assume this drew some skiers away from Front Range areas. Perversely, the areas that may be hit the hardest may be the less ritzy destinations.
Also, I think that as one poster alluded to, things are about to shift from a news perspective and I believe that there are a lot of people out there who still have money (maybe not in their retirement plans) who are waiting for the economy and the general gestalt to give them permission to spend again. It's not cool to book your Vail vacation when everyone is saying that the sky is falling. Once people realize that the sun will still come up every morning, and that it's snowing in the mountains, they'll still come. Still, I wouldn't want to be in business selling $75 steaks in a ski town.
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDenver View Post
The aping of a platitude by some as the post best addressing the otherwise sophisticated business issues left my teeth hurting and wanting for a better educational system. Further thinking the sound of fingernails moving down a chalkboard is marginally better than some reads found here..I see your post Ullr. It’s Bob btw. But thanks, it put all of this back in perspective for me…don’t take serious the Epic cartoon.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist!!

I hear where are are comin from though.
post #54 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullr View Post
Sorry, I just couldn't resist!!

I hear where are are comin from though.
What really matters is, who'd look better in bumps - Ginger or Mary-Ann?

I'd go with Ginger in bumps, and Mary-Ann freeride.
post #55 of 58
mmmmmm, Ginger

post #56 of 58
Okay, but who'd be a better lange girl?
MaryAnn or Ginger?
post #57 of 58
i HOPE the prices will drop in Vail; then I have a chance of skiing there this year
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDenver View Post




I see it did not take long until the skiing equivalent of the bourgeoisie view of the proletariat surfaced. Careful folks, those volume hobbyists pay the light bills otherwise its lifts out
Yeah that would really suck. Fortunately for me, I don't need to depend on lifts to ski. Any other great reasons I should be thanking my lucky stars for the volume hobbyists?
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