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How Stupid Do They Think I Am? - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Originally posted by kiwiski:
If the peizoelectrics are so great why did K2 give them up?

Getting back to marketing B.S. the Head website says:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> HEAD’s Intelligence Technology, the world’s first electronic ski management system, utilizes our unique Intellifibers, which are designed to generate electricity when they receive vibrations. This electricity is then captured in a circuit where disruptive frequencies are removed. In the Chip System ski, the charge is multiplied seven-fold then returned back into the Intellifibers
Isn't this in violation of the laws of physics regarding the conservation of energy. If these skis can take an electrical charge and amplify it without an external power supply they have just solved all the worlds energy problems. It may be a nice ski but the marketing behind it is blatently lying.</font>[/quote]Kiwiski, I think I understand your concern, but they say "charge is multiplied sevenfold", not voltage or current; in other words, they don't amplify, just store the charge generated by the piezo crystal (a rectifier feeding into a capacitor?) and then they discharge it into the ski fibers. The efficiency of such control is limited, to say the least, as it takes time to accumulate the charge, but the idea is interesting.
post #32 of 40
Their inaccurate hype has been discussed before on Epic. Take a look at my post dated February 13, 2003 01:13 AM in the thread,
Head "Intelligence" Skis ? The ic160

[ April 01, 2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: PhysicsMan ]
post #33 of 40
Originally posted by BetaRacer:
I spoke to the head designer of Atomic during our (Atomic Canada) sales meetings this year regarding the Head Intelligence System. He said that in theory the design works, but it requires much more power than the few millivolts produced. The technology goes back to World War 2 where large bombers used powered wires in the fuselage to help stabilize the frame. They had a much greater external power source though.
Peizo electric vibration damping is its own power source, and it works well enough to stabilize helicopter rotors. The peizo chrystal convert the mechanical energy of vibrations into electical energy. The electrical energy is dissipated as heat, but mechanical energy is dissipated (actually it's converted to electrical energy) at the location of the chrystal.
I've never heard of powered wires used to stabilize structures, and I've never seen that in any airplane, including WW2 bombers I've seen. And millivolts is a unit of electric potential, not a unit of power.
This discussion has been so inaccurate and full of uninformed opinions that it reminds me that it's a good thing you don't need to know anything to ski.

post #34 of 40
RR, I congratulate you that you are still skiing at your age. Someone who flew Axis bombers during WWII and is still skiing is remarkable.
post #35 of 40
Originally posted by BetaRacer:
RR, I congratulate you that you are still skiing at your age. Someone who flew Axis bombers during WWII and is still skiing is remarkable.
I never said I flew one of those, but I do occasionally ski with a former Luftwaffe pilot. He skis pretty well for a 75 year old guy.

post #36 of 40
Technically, Atomic is right about the dimples on the ski's. In thoery this principle does work and any fluid mechanics book will explain it. However, I am not sure how this theory would relate to a ski, especially with the tips pronated the way they are. If you ask me the question "does it really work?", I have no idea. I personally do not think any of us would notice the difference if we used them. But if everyone is producing dimpled skis in three years then I guess they were right.
post #37 of 40
Anthony, I am sorry, but as a licensed chemical engineer (I hate wielding my license for anything other than putting stamps on designs), I have to read a fair amount of books on fluid dynamics - I do that in two languages.
None of them said that a rougher surface can be better for air flow past it (have a lower drag coefficient) than a smoother one. There is just no way. Improved stability at high speeds - possible, but I think only as long as there is a certain structure underneath the topsheet.

[ April 02, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: AlexG ]
post #38 of 40
Not that I'd buy into too much marketing hype, but both systems (the dimpled topsheet and the "intelligent fibers") can work, just not exactly the way marketing says they can.

The dimples effect the vibrations running through the length of the ski. depending on their geometry and the material used, they could be very effective at damping certain higher frequency vibrations without inhibiting the low frequency "spring" responsible for lively skis, and lost using damp materials such as titanal. Nothing to do with aerodynamics, but it would be noticeable at higher speeds. I believe Fischer is doing something similar with their topsheets, although it's designed to isolate the vibrations you get from smacking a gate, which can cause delam.

the intellifibers and piezo electric system, quite simply can work. Torsion is applied at a 45 degree helix to the axis of rotation. The fibers, which do have a mechanical response to electric stimulus, are laid in at opposing 45 degree angles across the skis. It does not take much of a complex circuit to turn high frequency electrical input (which is what you would get when the ski is twisted torsionally at high frequencies) into low frequency (or even near-constant) electrical output which would stiffen the ski torsionally against the direction causing vibration, while dampening high frequency torsional inputs. It would, as claimed, have little effect on longitudinal stiffness. I suspect Physicsman is correct about the "factor of 7" though with a slightly more complex circuit you could store energy and return a much higher charge for finite periods of time... don't know why you'd want to though.

Seems pretty silly though went a good piece of sugar maple and a fiber torsion box accomplishes about the same thing, only cheaper and more durable.
post #39 of 40
As sno'more, I want to congratulate you on the best title for a thread in a long time. You done the Sno's proud.
That said, I'm not sure any of us want an answer to the question.
post #40 of 40
Thread Starter 

You don't need to answer the question. I have a wife. She reminds me.

I see you're from Portland. It's both good and bad that you've been getting weather. Good because it will prolong our season. Also I was just in Mt. Bachelor and the skiing was great, it just wasn't good for races. I wished I had my all mountain skis with me. My (aforementioned) wife skied well in the powder in her Atomic SL9's. It must have been the dimpled topsheet!
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