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Help Please - Head Chip Monster, Fischer AMC

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi there!

I am trying to decide about a new skis for this season. Last year I've tried a few skis in Colorado and the best I liked were Fischer's AMC 76 @170 length. I wanted to get them right away, but it was the end of the season and I've decided to hold on until 2009. Well, now I have made some research and really like Head's Chip Monster (on paper).

http://www.head.com/ski/ski.php?regi...g=chip&id=1460

It looks like Chip Monster could be a better ski, but I haven't tried them yet. What do you think, does it make sense to go ahead and buy Monsters or settle down with Fisher's AMC (Fuse 76 for 2009)?

I know, that the best way is to demo them both and then decide, but I live in Illinois and it isn't that easy to demo here.

My specs : Male, 37 years, 6 ft, 180 lbs, advanced skier (not an expert yet), try to ski everywhere and under all conditions, would like to keep a decent carving ability with a new skis (some times it can be a real fun! );
post #2 of 23
Welcome to EpicSki Olex!
post #3 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by olex256 View Post
Hi there!

I am trying to decide about a new skis for this season. Last year I've tried a few skis in Colorado and the best I liked were Fischer's AMC 76 @170 length. I wanted to get them right away, but it was the end of the season and I've decided to hold on until 2009. Well, now I have made some research and really like Head's Chip Monster (on paper).
Get back to us when you can research it on snow.
post #4 of 23
I am a gear ho and I'm embarrassed to say, I have not been paying attention to the Head Chip. What is that about? Similar to the TigerShark, in technology?
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
@Philpug
When we have snow, there would be no much time for forums any more! Even such a great ones as the Barking Bear . Have been long time "read only" observer. My respects to the hosts .


@Trekchick
I've demoed, Head’s Xenon Xi9.0 last season in Colorado. I did find it to be great skis. However, due to really aggressive cut (127-75-112 with 12m@170) it was difficult for me to control them 100%. On the soft snow it was okay, but icy groomers been giving me a hard time (and I like carving!). One thing that I did noticed, was the lightweight of the skis and rock solid stability (assuming off course that one can manage to control it). I've also tested Fisher's AMC 76 among others and found them to fit my specs/style/skills the best.

The reasons I am looking at the Head’s Chip Monster now are:
  • I’ve liked Head’s skis design and feel;
  • Chip Monster has less aggressive cut (124/78/110 with 14.6m@171);
  • Has all latest head’s “belts and whistles”;
  • Hope that I can have a blast on groomers, but can go off-piste with confidence at any time and even do some treeeees
Oh, the CHIP technology: It seems to be similar to the Volkl's "Power Switch" technology, but completely automatic. Head has to say the following about it - "(ski) PROACTIVELY adapt to terrain and speed". Go figure!



@ALL: Please don't be shy to give your opinion. I will listen I promise.


Regards

Olex
post #6 of 23
Hi Olex, I changed your title to reflect the skis you're looking for, in the hopes that someone who has knowledge will see the title and chime in.

I will say this, I have skied the Head Wild Thang and the Head IM 78. I really liked both, but have only demo time on them.
If you're looking for a ski that will be used primarily in the Midwest then the high 70's is a good place to find a fun ski.
post #7 of 23
Olex, I have skied the IM 78 chip in a 171cm length. I iwll compare it to the IM 78 (non chip) which I own. The chip version is stiffer and I definitely prefrerred it on hard snow and corduroy. Both skis carve very well, but the chip version was more damp and more stable at speed and more solid feeling. Off piste,IMO there is no comparison, the non chip version is a better ski. The chips were much less forgiving and in general too stiff. Bumps were a chore, float and bounce less in fresh snow and in general it was a less fun ski off piste. Becuase I use the ski as an everday, do everything ski where I am off piste a good precentage of the time with the ski (and I have a few other skis that are deicated hard snow skis) getting the non chip version was an easy call for me. I am 6 3" 185.

IMO unless you will use the skis a majority of the time on groomed terrain, I would go with the non chip version, which BTW, I think is the best mid fat all mountain ski I have been on.
post #8 of 23
Cost is the deciding factor.

The Chip skis are Head's top of the line skis, usually costing more than even their top race gear. I have the first chip ski by them iC300, and I love the ski, and its not as refined as the latest Chip skis, which now also have Liquidmetal. That being said, a 09 chip ski will probably cost double what last year's Fischer ski will cost. If cost is not a factor, get the Heads.

Disclaimer: I always recommend Heads....they make great skis, what can I say, I have 5 pairs.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgedskier View Post
Olex, I have skied the IM 78 chip in a 171cm length. I iwll compare it to the IM 78 (non chip) which I own. The chip version is stiffer and I definitely prefrerred it on hard snow and corduroy. Both skis carve very well, but the chip version was more damp and more stable at speed and more solid feeling. Off piste,IMO there is no comparison, the non chip version is a better ski. The chips were much less forgiving and in general too stiff. Bumps were a chore, float and bounce less in fresh snow and in general it was a less fun ski off piste. Becuase I use the ski as an everday, do everything ski where I am off piste a good precentage of the time with the ski (and I have a few other skis that are deicated hard snow skis) getting the non chip version was an easy call for me. I am 6 3" 185.

IMO unless you will use the skis a majority of the time on groomed terrain, I would go with the non chip version, which BTW, I think is the best mid fat all mountain ski I have been on.
+1
The Chip comes as versions; Monster (IM 78 spec) and Supershape (Supershape Magnum spec). The technology of the ‘chip’ does actually influence the ski by working with some of the other embedded Head technology by way of storing up a percentage of energy generated by the ski during movement that would normally dissipate then resupplying this energy as a current passed back determined by the oscillation of the ski...thus charging the metal fibers into a stronger form. Think of it as keeping the ski at a higher rpm while it would otherwise quiet down as you let off the gas.

Now with all that going on and never once fearing electrocution I found the chip version to be firm and damp throughout perhaps commonly described as “stiffer” overall. I would also say I had to pay attention with the Chip which is a good thing as I found myself speeding very quickly then soon very confidently.

Will it work best for you? Not sure. But I can say that I found (similar to Hedgedskier) a liking of the IM 78 to that of the Chip version as best characterized in one word…versatility. I could shape the IM 78 in any number of ways exceptionally managing everything found in Summit and Eagle County including cord, bumps and crud. In particular I was shocked (yes without the Chip :-) just how well this ski performed in deeper (as well as heavier) snow conditions whereas it just climbed up and worked effortlessly…but at a damn fast clip mind you.

Research and find additional comments like those that follow regarding the Head IM 78 (with some reference to Chip as well as Magnum). BTW, no cheating…don’t skim the posts as you'll often find your gold hidden in the one overlooked. Do the same for the Fisher AMC. Good luck.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=54515
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=67386
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?p=904663
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=70823
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=61860
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=61900
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Cost is the deciding factor.

IF cost is the deciding factor
post #11 of 23
The Fischer AMC 76 is a great allround ski a a great price point. You liked them so I would buy them if you can find some 08s. I don't think Fischer is selling the Fuse line in the U.S. The Fischer Watea 78 looks like it might be a simaliar ski, maybe a little softer.
post #12 of 23
Take a look at the Fischer Cool Heat too. It's also 76 in the waist, has great carving ability and the deals you can get on them are awesome. I have a pair that are itching to get out on snow!
post #13 of 23
I love my AMC 73's in the bumps and on the groomers.

They replaced some old Head Supercross TI's, which I also loved.

I haven't tried the new Heads, but they are probably very nice.

The AMC's are probably way cheaper.

For an advanced skier the AMC's may be a better choice.
post #14 of 23
If price is any factor I've seen late model versions of the AMC 76's (i.e., one or two years old) selling for ridiculously low prices in Denver ($200+ if I remember correctly). Perhaps this means they can be had elsewhere for a steal too (i.e., via the internet or stores in the midwest). Buying something you know for a song makes more sense than chasing the theoretical latest and greatest.
post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
@Trekchick
Thank you for editing the thread title. It helped a lot, as so many people have shared their views and opinions.

@Hedgedskier & DonDenver
I agree that chipless monster is better for bumps and trees. Thank you for great comparison and detailed explanation. Appreciate the links. I was all over them this night. Non-chip version looks really appealing to me now. The only sort of downtick is the fact that no railflex bindings are offered with a non-chip version. I always thought that railflex bindings are installed on a top level skis. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

Also, can it be that reilflex bindings make chip version to be stiffer?

@Eric S
Yes, Fischer doesn’t sell Fuse line in the US since this year. Shame on you Fischer. Somewhere on this forum I’ve read that AMC was a “bastard child” of the Fischer family. However, it is still available in Canada and Europe. So, if one really wants to have it…

@ALL
Now I know why I don't see too many people on the streets. They are all here! Thanks for the input guys.


Cheers ,


Happy Skiing!
post #16 of 23
You can put Railflex bindings on the non chip IM 78. Some might prefer it to a non plate binding. If you are buying the ski new, just buy it flat and mount a railflex binding.

I don't think that the railflex stiffens the chip ski, or any ski for that matter. It certainly adds some rise/height and therefore there is more levergae to get the skis on edge.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by olex256 View Post
Somewhere on this forum I’ve read that AMC was a “bastard child” of the Fischer family. However, it is still available in Canada and Europe. So, if one really wants to have it…
If you want a pair of those bastard children I'd be glad to see if they are still available in Denver for what I thought were crazy low prices (or you could call the store - I could swear that it was Colorado Ski and Golf and they had a boat load, which seems to hint towards the bastard child theory). I could take pic of them to make sure they're the correct model and they might be willing to ship them to you. Vs. the Heads you'd still be money way ahead! If interested tell me the size and year(s) you are interested in and I'll do some reconnaissance.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by olex256 View Post
@Philpug
When we have snow, there would be no much time for forums any more! Even such a great ones as the Barking Bear . Have been long time "read only" observer. My respects to the hosts .


@Trekchick
I've demoed, Head’s Xenon Xi9.0 last season in Colorado. I did find it to be great skis. However, due to really aggressive cut (127-75-112 with 12m@170) it was difficult for me to control them 100%. On the soft snow it was okay, but icy groomers been giving me a hard time (and I like carving!). One thing that I did noticed, was the lightweight of the skis and rock solid stability (assuming off course that one can manage to control it). I've also tested Fisher's AMC 76 among others and found them to fit my specs/style/skills the best.

The reasons I am looking at the Head’s Chip Monster now are:
  • I’ve liked Head’s skis design and feel;
  • Chip Monster has less aggressive cut (124/78/110 with 14.6m@171);
  • Has all latest head’s “belts and whistles”;
  • Hope that I can have a blast on groomers, but can go off-piste with confidence at any time and even do some treeeees
Oh, the CHIP technology: It seems to be similar to the Volkl's "Power Switch" technology, but completely automatic. Head has to say the following about it - "(ski) PROACTIVELY adapt to terrain and speed". Go figure!



@ALL: Please don't be shy to give your opinion. I will listen I promise.


Regards

Olex
Hi, Olex. Welcome to Epic.

I'll first comment on your experience with the Xenon. Obviously I haven't seen you ski, but your description leads me to wonder if the aggressive turn radius (12m) of the Xenon isn't contributing to to what you felt on hard snow.

That Xenon is actually a very good carving ski, but the short turn radius can actually work to your disadvantage on hard snow if your carving technique isn't fairly aggressive and fairly well refined. The big shovel on that ski really wants to hook up and pull you into a carved turn, but if your subsequent movements aren't reinforcing large tipping angles and really good fore/aft balance, that ski might tend to skip or "chatter" on you. It's a fairly high-energy ski that wants to be on serious edge angles most of the time.

I do think you're probably on the right track with the Chip Monster 78. That is a smoother ski with a less aggressive turn radius. It allows for a little more relaxed ride but still kicks serious butt when you put the moves on it. The 78 makes a really good all-around ski even while skiing light-to-moderate powder/crud and trees are fun on that ski.

The Fischer is a good one, too. I'm biased toward Head (obviously ), but I like the way most Fischers ski. I have not actually skied on their 78.

Good luck in your search.
post #19 of 23
Hi olex,
I can't advise you which ski is better not having skied either unless it's the same ski under another name in the Head shell game. I can, however, tell you not to judge the Monster based on the Xenon. I too didn't like the Xenon on hard pack (what folks in Colorado probably call ice), nor did I much like the Supershape Magnum, but the Supershape (not magnum, not speed, I think it was a Chipped one) and the Supershape Speed were great.
post #20 of 23
Just a comment on the Railflex. Get it. Mostly helps with levering edges. But width and shape also helps spread more of the binding toward the edge, which helps efficiency with which your leg movement is translated to the edge. Nothing special about the RF in this regard, actually, most manufacturers now make bindings that do same. But RF is unique in its ability to adjust boot location onslope, which helps a bit if you're going from groomed or bumps to powder. And the Tyrolia heel is a real knee saver with no loss of performance.
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
@Bob Peters
“that ski might tend to skip or "chatter" on you”
That would be the correct description on what was happening on icy black runs at Keystone. It just takes extreme concentration and strength to control Xenon’s at these conditions. However, softer snow (not ice) was a real pleasure with a "bulldozer" like and "crud? what crud? I've seen no crud!" feel.


@Hedgedskier & beyond
I think that this is settled. RailFlex can be installed on any ski and is a positive thing. First, easier edging while carving. Second, the ability to quickly move the boot, so I can find a perfect position for particular conditions/type of snow/terrain. Third, I still can do bumps and trees. Great!

@ALL
Congratulations on the season opening! Wonderful news from A-Basin and LoveLand. I wish I could be there…



Cheers,

Olex
post #22 of 23
Hi Olex,
I've skied Head chip supershape 2 seasons and they are fantastic,
soft snow, hard slopes or off pist, don't matter...
I'm too looking at the Monster version and if It's as good as the more slalom version I'll just go ahead (!) and get the chip Monster.

Have a good season to you all
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattL View Post
Take a look at the Fischer Cool Heat too. It's also 76 in the waist, has great carving ability and the deals you can get on them are awesome. I have a pair that are itching to get out on snow!
Ditto, plus the Cool Heat can be had for less than $350 for a new ski, search online! I would not consider the AMC for a heavier skier.

Michael
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