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SKI, Skiing and Powder mags - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
I'm still holding out for a better magazine approach to our sport aimed at the multitudes of ordinary skiers who keep the industry afloat and the sport alive..
Why sit on the sidelines waiting for someone else to do something? If you think there's a viable market for it, start it up.
post #32 of 54
Agreed
post #33 of 54
I may be bias but IMO a subscription to EpicSki is well worth the cost.
Beyond the information building, its a living, evolving resource, with a sense of community that generates life long friendships.

I subscribed to Realskiers this season and am quite happy with the value/dollar I got there also.

The nice thing about Ski, Skiing, and Powder is that its easier to take to the bathroom.
post #34 of 54

Do not read this before breakfast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
The nice thing about Ski, Skiing, and Powder is that its easier to take to the bathroom.
Easier, yes, but since kids I've discovered new forms of multitasking, including email (or Epic) with a notebook on your knees. Not a pretty picture, though...
post #35 of 54
I just wish Captain Powder oversaw all the articles used in every ski mag- a sort of "grand Poobah" of all that is skiing. That would really ensure that GNAR permeated throughout, with minimal suckage used in filler materials.
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Easier, yes, but since kids I've discovered new forms of multitasking, including email (or Epic) with a notebook on your knees. Not a pretty picture, though...
Multitasking at its best
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
Dumpy, if your post were the only reply to my initial challenge, I would be glad I did it.

Great post! THANK YOU!
ha ha I would have been happy just knowing that someone read my rather long winded post, you picked two topics (cycling and skiing) that I can ramble about for hours. My educational background is in journalism, but I have a tendency to hate the media, so I guess it was a perfect storm for long winded opinionated ramblings.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
I'm still holding out for a better magazine approach to our sport aimed at the multitudes of ordinary skiers who keep the industry afloat and the sport alive..
thats part of the problem, we are all ordinary skiers, yet there are no ordinary skiers. There are many disciplines within skiing (park, racing, trees, cruising, pipe, moguls, steeps) most of us ski a few or hopefully all of them, we all ski different snow types, we are all different sized, have different abilities. Picking the right equipment is a game of looking at all variables and finding the right gear, there are no one size fits all or even many answers.

How do I define the average skier? Ability doesn't play much of a factor (however most fall into the advanced/intermediate range), skis on a regular basis (>20 days a year), tries to ski most of the aforementioned disciplines, wants to learn and progress. Takes maybe 1-7 overnight ski trips a year. No real age restrictions. Thinks about skiing once mid to late fall hits, keeps the stoke up until the snow is gone at their home mountain. They probably watch a few MSP/Miller/TGR/PBP/Meathead/etc movies a year. If they do not already do some level of a home tuning, they are at least interested in it. Basically a Bear

How do you define it?

How do I think the mags define it?

Ski: Less than 20 days a year, thinks of skiing only come vaca time, more trips, older, hardly ever watches a ski flick

Powder: Expects more of a knowledge of the sport, emphasis on trees, steeps, maybe park, more days on hill, year round stoke, under 50 crowd, upper advanced to expert skiers, goes to ski movie premieres, has shop rat buddies who help them pick gear

Skiing: Pretty close to what I described as average, maybe a bit less on the stoke/days on hill front, not as interested in tuning, a slightly higher max age than Powder

Freeskier: toss most disciplines out the window, focus on pipe, park and recently trees/steeps. fewer, but larger trips (like summer camps), a lot of days on the hill and/or urban jib sessions, spends more $$ on stylish clothes than gear, not much thought put into tuning, good (park) skiers, love the movies, high stoke factor that is easily replaced with other distractions come summer
post #39 of 54
The problem with most of the Mags is that they have sold they souls to the companies that advertise with them. Product placement, reviews and brand mentions are all tied to dollars spent. I have had seveal friends, over the years, that have been in the industry and confirm that the ad department and the editoral department work hand-in-hand to make sure the company meets its profit goals. For me, I take all Mag recommandations with a grain of salt.
post #40 of 54
Magazines are good to look at. If I want an honest review though, Ill ask an independent source...like this board for instance.
post #41 of 54
The mags are what they are.

Some people dream about the once a year vacation to [random CO mega resort]. There's a mag for them.

Some people can hit the hill for a couple weekends each month after driving up from NY, Boston, Denver, SF, etc. There's a mag for them.

Some people eke out a life in ski country or otherwise find a way to bum their way up and down the Rockies (or dream about it). there's a mag for them.

Some people just turned twelve (even if they're 37) and want to know how to dress just like Morrison, Olsson.... There's even a mag for them.

I wouldn't want them to revert to the "Bicycling" format, which is for the eternal beginner. There isa need for those mags, but choice is good, too.
post #42 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Why sit on the sidelines waiting for someone else to do something? If you think there's a viable market for it, start it up.
Hmmmm . . . . "EpicSki, the Magazine" . . . .
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
The mags are what they are.

Some people dream about the once a year vacation to [random CO mega resort]. There's a mag for them.

Some people can hit the hill for a couple weekends each month after driving up from NY, Boston, Denver, SF, etc. There's a mag for them.

------VOID To be Filled-------

Some people eke out a life in ski country or otherwise find a way to bum their way up and down the Rockies (or dream about it). there's a mag for them.

Some people just turned twelve (even if they're 37) and want to know how to dress just like Morrison, Olsson.... There's even a mag for them.

I wouldn't want them to revert to the "Bicycling" format, which is for the eternal beginner. There isa need for those mags, but choice is good, too.
Very Well said!!

IMHO what appears to be missing (as indicated by the admittedly annoying large blue text) is something in between the 2 day a month (sub)urban skier and the folks who wash dishes and eat Ramen every day in order to ski everyday at ___Pick a large Western resort___.


Where is the mag for the folks who make skiing a big part of their life, but try to maintain a "normal" 40 hour a week lifestyle in the process? The folks who ski at least every weekend (probably both days) and at least 2 nights a week (if available) at a local hill. The folks who use a vacation (anything with an overnight stay) as a supplement to their normal skiing, not how they normally ski.

These folks could be beer league racers, park rats, tree skiers, bumpers, wannabe big mountain skiers, cord cruisers, whatever. Most would probably just say they are skiers, they ski different ways/styles to avoid getting bored if they are at a smallish hill. I would say 90% of these types of skiers have season passes. Many have families and friends that fit in this category too.

The smaller cities of the northeast (ie anywhere but Boston or NYC, think Hartford, Syracuse, Scranton) are filled with these kinds of skiers. I'm guessing the midwest (Michigan maybe) and the PNW are too. Colorado and (especially)Utah have some of these types of skiers too, but the quality of their "home" hill may slightly exclude them.

Am I right to think there is a market for a mag that appeals to these people? people who live skiing, but not in a resort town on minimum wage. Is this person the "average skier"? Most these people fall into several of the categories you mentioned. Is that where they belong or are they a group of their own?

I would think what would appeal to these people are good gear reviews (if possible in rag format) , articles on tuning, good travel guides, some articles on technique, ski porn photos, maybe some well written stories, etc. Due to the multi-faceted nature of their skiing, there needs to be well rounded articles to keep most of these folks happy.
post #44 of 54
Seems like the whole ski magazine thing is pretty done, what with that Internet thang and all. Must say, though, the Skinet site (for SKI and Skiing) is even worse this year than last. On the magmag front, I've enjoyed SkiCanada the few times I've read it. Doubt I'd pay cashmoney for a copy, but whatever.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by faber View Post
The mags are what they are.

Some people dream about the once a year vacation to [random CO mega resort]. There's a mag for them.

Some people can hit the hill for a couple weekends each month after driving up from NY, Boston, Denver, SF, etc. There's a mag for them.

Some people eke out a life in ski country or otherwise find a way to bum their way up and down the Rockies (or dream about it). there's a mag for them.

Some people just turned twelve (even if they're 37) and want to know how to dress just like Morrison, Olsson.... There's even a mag for them.

I wouldn't want them to revert to the "Bicycling" format, which is for the eternal beginner. There isa need for those mags, but choice is good, too.
I think I can tell which magazines fall into these slots, but could you make it a little more clear which magazine(s) you see serving which niche?

I'm somewhere between #2 and the missing "void" area identified... I wonder if I'm missing a magazine that would fit my profile...

aaron
post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumpy View Post
Very Well said!!

IMHO what appears to be missing (as indicated by the admittedly annoying large blue text) is something in between the 2 day a month (sub)urban skier and the folks who wash dishes and eat Ramen every day in order to ski everyday at ___Pick a large Western resort___.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scootertig View Post
I think I can tell which magazines fall into these slots, but could you make it a little more clear which magazine(s) you see serving which niche?

I'm somewhere between #2 and the missing "void" area identified... I wonder if I'm missing a magazine that would fit my profile...

aaron
I didn't address age/demographic/income bracket....just look at the ads. No Rolex ads in Powder...

I live in ski country, but have a "real job," yet I also part-time as an instructor, sometimes, too much part-time

I don't live on ramen and don't drink PBR and am at a point in life where I still can but would rather not sleep in my car.

I like Powder (free subscription) but it is a little undergrad for me. It seems more like what trust-funder college freshmen from other timezones dream about. What other non-sponsored 19-year olds can afford to do heli-trips of the BC interior? And the not so subtle marketing of Retallack may be cool for the young image-driven snow hipsters, but...no thanks. Although the last issue actually had three short pieces about my little corner of Montuckey, but nothing I didn't know. weird. Nice to see one of the tune boys at MLB get a quote in.

Ski and Skiing don't do it for me. Ski is like Bicycling for skiing. Skiing is trying to be Powder for the aging Gen Xers and younger Boomers, but I don't need articles on winter driving.

So I guess I'm looking for that middle "void" as well.

Maybe something that is equal parts EpicSki and TGR. That would be a fun read with the best gear reviews, reports, funny sch!tt, and a good mix of smug locals and serious "real world-ers".
post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by uricmu View Post
Does anyone actually buy these mags for the reviews?
I do.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who come in to a shop and recite the prose from these magazines. It can be a relatively new skier all the way to the coolest bro bra- people all know what these things say about gear.

When you work in a shop and three people in one day quote a cliched feature that skiing or powder causally mentioned, you'll see what I mean.

Also, I don't get the oppurtunity to ski on skis that we don't carry. It's been a long time since I've been on a pair of atomics, black diamonds etc. These reviews- however cheesy give me an idea whats out there.

I just keep the salt near by.
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post
I do.

I just keep the salt near by.
+1

I don't work in a shop, but I usually read at least Skiing's gear guide, Powder's (whether its a year they do a real one or just a cut and paste job), sometimes Freeskiers for a laugh/some actual advice and Ski's if I'm in a waiting room. When I can find copies of it, I'll read Skier's, I'd say its probably the best one (relative term).

They are great to get an idea of what exists right now. I actually find Powder's to be the most usefull, even though it doesn't have any tester opinions, just marketing spin and specs, but it does tend to include more skis. If something sounds appealing to me in it, then I'll dig deeper on da intraweb and/or try to find a demo. Its sort of like going to a shop that carries every brand, has stacks of brochures, but doesn't have sales people with actual knowledge.

I think we must all read them or we wouldn't be bitching that they suck.
post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
Hmmmm . . . . "EpicSki, the Magazine" . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt7180 View Post
Epicski Magazine??? It has a nice ring to it.
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
... Other than that, those magazines are a waste of paper. Just take a look at Bicycling or any of the bike magazines. Look at the golf and tennis magazines - the hunting and fishing magazines. I'd say they all have a reasonable degree of useful information. Then look at SKI and Skiing - and Powder, for that matter (unless your main thing is photos, of course).

.... We have EpicSki.com, which has added more to my skiing life than I ever can convey and for which I am will forever be grateful. The degree of "commercialization" to which the web site wisely has turned is a very, very small price to pay for this priceless place, as are the really small amounts it takes to be a supporter or sponsor, and I'll wager my favorite skis that no one here is getting rich off this. It's damned refreshing to know that there are people who have dreams of producing a vastly superior product and are, for some blessed reason, content just to get back in money what it costs to operate. The best place in the world for most of us to learn - LEARN! - about skis, boots, technique, places - and a damned lot of fun....

Fire away.
Nothing to fire really, just an observation and agreement.

Lifelong biker -- have strayed from the bike occasionally and come back. But when I first got serious in high school, and then came back after a dry spell, Bicycling Mag was a decent nuts-and-bolts info source. Sure, they'll fawn over the newest shiniest gimmick that their advertisers offer, but there is a broader editorial mission to educate the consumer. And why not? The more we know, the better time we have biking, the more we bike, the more we buy, the more we read. At a certain level (e.g. the hard core road racers), obviously the rag is beneath them ("Buycycling" I think is the dismissive term), but for most everyone else, the mag provides useful information and entertainment.

Relative newcomer to skiing - about 7 or 8 years ago I guess I was hit and hit hard by the ski bug. First stop, my local newstand, figuring Ski and Skiing would do for snow what Bicycling does for two wheels. WRONG. They were utterly useless in recruiting a newcomer to the sport. Sure, I subscribed and read them, but they made me feel stupid and then I realized the problem was the mags, not me. The content is incoherent. Two exceptions, the instruction - which is OK but nowhere near as comprehensive as in Bicycling or in a good book like Mark Elling's All-Mountain Skier -- and the fitness articles. But the rest is utter crap that is (a) beneath experienced skiers, (b) useless to newcomers. I guess there's a market for the breathless "visit XYZ fancy resort" features but I can't figure out who it is. There's not much in the way of practical information and the by-the-numbers travelogue style writing is grating.

And the Ski mag approach to gear is beyond useless. Bicycling' at least respects readers enough to discuss the appropriate use and application of "road bikes" "mountain bikes," tri bikes", "hybrids" etc. Imagine if they tried to review "aspiring all-road bikes" or "expert bikes" and the reviews omitted critical information like frame sizes or geometry? That's what ski mags do and I won't add to the thousands of words ranting about it on epicski, other than to point out it's not doing anyone any favors. For every rich moron who prints out the "gold medal" winner list and goes to buy a "gold medal" ski at retail, there have got to be many more who just walk away because the bullshit factor seems so high when you look at those rags.

So this site became my practical source - and entertainment as well. TGR too, and telemarktips.com. But it still irks me there's no decent all-around ski magazine. I am a magazine addict - books and newspapers are OK but really, can anything compare to the weekly/monthly shiney surprise in your mailbox?

End of rant.

Only hope on the ski mag front these days, which I'm surprised no one here has mentioned, is The Ski Journal: http://www.theskijournal.com/ Doesn't fill the all-around gap, but does a great job at presenting high-end photography and esoteric content, sort of like Powder without the sophomoric attitude. And Grant Gunderson, who used to (and maybe still does) post here as mountbakerskier, is the photo editor.
post #51 of 54
Thread Starter 
(ahem) That said, I just took a look at what came in the mail. Damn! That SKI Mag is lookin' good! (ahem)
post #52 of 54
So when are we starting Epic the mag??

It would be great to read epic on the head...
post #53 of 54
Hey guys,

Been following this post and for the most part I agree with all of you, the traditional mags have left something to be desired in all instances. Thats why we created The Ski Journal It is unlike any other ski magazine that you have ever seen.

Our approach is simple:

We are a ski mag by skiers for skiers. We are completly independent ( we do publish Frequency the Snowboarders Journal).

We are the only mag out that is subscriber driven. We have very limited ads and focus solely on the culture of skiing.

We firmly believe that the culture of skiing can and does include all aspects of the sport from freeskiing the biggest gnarliest lines in AK to skiing and the local mom and pop hill to Bode Miller to the history of Hexcel to behind the scenes of Blizzard of Ahhs. We cover it all in a journal format and spare no expense to create the highest quality publication possible.

I urge any and all of you that love the sport of skiing yet hate the ad infested bro-brah crap in the traditional mags to give us a try. A subscription is less than the cost of an average day lift ticket.

BTW you wont want to miss are HARDBOUND photo annual avliable as an upgrade to your subscription. Also if you do decide to subscribe to us, Type in EPIC and we will send your first issue out Priority.


As for ski tests I FIRMLY believe that its best to get that kind of info one on one in a forum such as Epic. All magazine ski tests are crap and its quite easy to point out the errors in all of them... plus I think there are things that people would be much more stoked to read and would get more enjoyment out of then simply reading the stats on how a few people completely unlike your self rated a ski.
post #54 of 54
I'm subscribed to Skiing magazine, but I never use the Gear Guide in it. Also, I used to be subscribed to Ski magazine, but that's way too commercialized for me. Skiing magazine, to me at least, is the only way I can keep in touch with the ski season in the off season really, and I cling to that connection. I've reread all of my magazines a dozen times over. If there was a better skiing magazine, by all means I'd read it. But until that day...
~Skierboy
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