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edge bevel for 1986 ski

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Elan Comprex slalom Ski 207mm 1986 model
male 190lb expert age 55

I have no idea what edges the ski came with - I assume there 90/90 - base/edge -

I put a new pair of Tyrolia Free Flex bindings on last week to see how the binding would affect the flex pattern and rebound of the ski - cost: 149.00 at LevelNineSports - I skied a Besser flex binding on a Rossignol Sport Strato Ski years ago and that ski had incredible rebound - particularly if you did a powerful edge set with the inside ski -

The 1986 Elan Comprex Titanium Slalom Ski is a damp ski with little rebound - but very stable at high speeds and adaptable to a wide range of turns - I sometimes like to pretend I'm snowboarding and follow behind a snowboarder skiing the ski flat and sliding - because snowboarders ski so slow -

I'm not an old style skier - I un-weight and use my edges anyway that suits me at the time - I particularly like to edge set off my inside ski or use it to carve with - unlike the old school skier who makes the same type turn over and over and the only edge they know is the outside edge -


I also bought a new 2007 pair of Head SuperShapes 175mm with Tyrolia 17 Flex Bindings - my first shaped ski - cost: 259.00/149.00 -
My question is this: would changing the edge bevel on my old Elan Ski be appropriate - .5/2 or 1/3 ? I ski with my edges sharp from tip to tail -
post #2 of 14
I don't have my old Elan tech manuals around any more. I'd go .5/2. I doubt you will ski these for more than 3-5 runs before they end up back in the closet and you back on the Supershapes.
post #3 of 14
.5/2 if you can.

If the bases are Electra graphite and the bases are already set to 1 degree, I would not regrind them.

They take forever to get fast, and .5 degree isn't worth it.

What's your boot size?

If you're under 320mm and you aren't a big unweighter you will -really- like this ski mounted BOF on center running surface. Way forward of the factory mounting line. For a 305mm boot this can be an enormous change- the tail gets monster strong and the tips get really quick to engage.

OTOH, the factory position is really fun in slush. Wedeln on water skis.

Cracked edges reminder: final sharpening passes are tip to tail. Yes, you can create burrs on the trailing edge of those cracks.
post #4 of 14
Hey, wasn't the Sport Strato double metal with plastic between?
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 

Strato

If I remember correctly - I think the Sport Strato was a softer flex version of the original strato - with a fiberglass/wood construction - the best quality of the ski was it's excellent rebound - which was a part of the softer flex - the whole ski would bend deeply on a powerful edge set and then release that energy by actually throwing you into the air -

The Besser Flex type binding may be one reason for that - allowing the whole ski to bend informally

The ski also had a tendency to sudden edge catches - and was not stable at high speeds - but it was fun otherwise -

The Elan Comprex is a far safer ski - likes to be skied fast and it's stability increases with speed almost like the ski had a mind of it's own -

It's main drawback was the tips had to be into the fall line before the edges would engage - which made skiing steep mogul terrain somewhat difficult -

If you turned into the hill reaching a traverse position trying to scrub off speed - you had to twist the tips toward the fall line before any turning would happen when starting a new turn - what I wanted to do was just roll my knee's from the traverse position - have the edges engage and start a new turn - the ski wouldn't do that - the tips had to be forced downhill first -

Trying to carve your way down a steep mogul field you built up to much speed - so this is one area where I'm perhaps not quite so expert -

I think the flex binding will help let the ski edges engage the way there supposed too - as a complete arc - and not make binding placement so important

I haven't picked the ski's up from the shop yet - I'll check the edges and base to see where I'm starting from and then decide if changes need to be made -

I'm 6' 3 inches - with 29.5 boot -
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 

Back from Shop

I picked up my ski's today -The shop guy told me the 2007 HEAD SuperShapes come with a 0/0 edges -
I put a straight edge on them at home and cannot see any daylight so I think the base edge is at least 0 -

The Head ski is slightly concave also - ( apparently normal and intended ) -The Heads have the Tyrolia Free Flex Plus 17 bindings - with carve plate -

The Elan's are dead flat and also apparently 0 degree base edges - They have the Tyrolia Rail Flex bindings on them with the binding in the -15 on the factory mounting mark - ( forward adjustment ) -

The Tyrolia Free Flex Plus 17 is a very nice looking binding - brutal/visual overkill -

My Elans are white with Pink/Black/Gray graphics and lettering - basically white and pink mostly -

They were the nicest and coolest looking slalom ski in the store - back in 1986 - and they still look almost new -

The Ski/Sports shop a few blocks from where I live in Orem, UT - ( Park's ) - has one of those $200,000.00 green Wintersteiger ( mispelled I know ) - tuning machines -

The operator - 'Taylor' - goes up to Park City regularly and visits the World Cup Race Tuners - so I'll ask him what he thinks about some proper edge/base bevels for my ski's -

Since my Elan's are dead flat - conservative on the base bevel is what I'm thinking - since there's no concavity to help the ski track straight -
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post
I picked up my ski's today -The shop guy told me the 2007 HEAD SuperShapes come with a 0/0 edges -
I read on a couple of sites that they are 1,2 from the factory.
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post
I picked up my ski's today -The shop guy told me the 2007 HEAD SuperShapes come with a 0/0 edges -
I put a straight edge on them at home and cannot see any daylight so I think the base edge is at least 0 -

The Head ski is slightly concave also - ( apparently normal and intended ) -The Heads have the Tyrolia Free Flex Plus 17 bindings - with carve plate -

The Elan's are dead flat and also apparently 0 degree base edges - They have the Tyrolia Rail Flex bindings on them with the binding in the -15 on the factory mounting mark - ( forward adjustment ) -

The Tyrolia Free Flex Plus 17 is a very nice looking binding - brutal/visual overkill -

My Elans are white with Pink/Black/Gray graphics and lettering - basically white and pink mostly -

They were the nicest and coolest looking slalom ski in the store - back in 1986 - and they still look almost new -

The Ski/Sports shop a few blocks from where I live in Orem, UT - ( Park's ) - has one of those $200,000.00 green Wintersteiger ( mispelled I know ) - tuning machines -

The operator - 'Taylor' - goes up to Park City regularly and visits the World Cup Race Tuners - so I'll ask him what he thinks about some proper edge/base bevels for my ski's -

Since my Elan's are dead flat - conservative on the base bevel is what I'm thinking - since there's no concavity to help the ski track straight -
an old straight ski is 0/0 Flat base edge and flat side edge. Don't ya remember flat filing your skis on the steps to the lodge?

I would run, not walk, run away from that shop as fast as possible and never return. The Head supershape is 1/2. Maybe even 1/1. but no way a 0/0!

If you want to hate your Supershapes, go ski them with 0 base bevel.

By the way, i cureently ski on 3 different head skis. SS Speed, i.sl Rd and Monster 88.
post #9 of 14
For a good skier who likes a performance feel to skis.
0.5 base 3 side.

If you want to be a little lazy and watch the scenery as you ski, take it easy at times, maybe read the paper....
1 base 2 or 3 side.

If you want to race tight slalom courses 0 base, 3 to 6 side depending on course.
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 

Unreal

Got ski's back from tune shop - checked edges with a Swix Edger Comp -

I told Park's Sporstman in Orem, Utah - four times and in writing - call me and tell what bevels the New 2007 Head Superhape came with from the factory - before tuning

No call - they just did the ski's -

Who knows what the hell they came with ?

Tyson - Head Coach of the Sundance's Kids Race Ski Team did the tune -

The first ski I checked had a 10" section on one ski edge near the tip before the turn up that was 3 degrees base bevel - and about 1 degree the rest of the ski - the other side was 1 degree towards the tip - somewhat less in the middle section - more or less 1 degree -

I told the guy .5 a degree base bevel -

The side edges were 3 degrees until you got near the tails - 8" before the widest part - where the side bevel was much less than 3 degrees -

I looked at the other Head ski - 5 degrees base bevel on both edges on a two foot section below the tips - and started to get less near the middle of the ski -



I then said the hell with it - and ordered a complete tune kit from Ray's - so I could knock the bases down myself and do my own damn tuning

I asked for .5 base/3 side bevel and got back this - I hope Ray's Tune Kit can fix things -
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 

Again

I wish I could edit the above post - stuff happens in life and things do not always work out -

I am disturbed at my lack of character - defamation of a person or place is not where I should have taken the above post -

I talked to the shop and they will try and figure out what happened -

I measured the base bevel on my other pair of ski's they tuned - the Elan Comprex Slalom's and they measured a solid 5 degree base bevel -

I have a hard time seeing how a Head Coach of a Race Ski Team managed to do this -

If I've learned anything from this - it's my own character that needs some tuning also -
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Johnson View Post
The first ski I checked had a 10" section on one ski edge near the tip before the turn up that was 3 degrees base bevel - and about 1 degree the rest of the ski - the other side was 1 degree towards the tip - somewhat less in the middle section - more or less 1 degree -

I told the guy .5 a degree base bevel -

The side edges were 3 degrees until you got near the tails - 8" before the widest part - where the side bevel was much less than 3 degrees -
I would -happily- ski a 200cm + Titanium G tuned this way.
post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 

Update

I finally gave with up with doing business with the ski shop in Orem, Utah and took my ski's up to Renstall's in Park City, Utah -

Upon arriving in the shop - before even talking to me - the guy takes my ski's and using something similar to a SVST Bevel Meter - checks the base bevels -

They were 2 degrees on both pair of ski's - I know the side edge bevels on the Heads were between 1-2 degrees and on the Elans where 0 degrees on one edge and 1 degree on the other edge and this on both pair of ski's -

No attemp whatever was made to get the 3 degrees side edge I'd asked for - side bevel is quite easy to detect using a black marker and a file guide -

Detecting base bevel angles is difficult if using a risistance method - very little risistance is felt until the file goes over the top and starts contacting the edge at an angle - I should have used the black marker method on the bases also - gently as possible -

So the shop in Orem charged me 80.00 bucks for just about nothing and I don't think they have a decent way of actually checking base bevels even if they felt inclined to do so -

I tried getting a 3 degrees side on one of the Elan's using my Swix Carver - but it seemed like that would take quite a long time as so much side plastic material needed to come off also -

I chose .5 base - 3 side for the new bevel job - both pair of ski's

The guy in the shop wanted to sell me some Atomic SG Race Stock 2007 Models - 200.00-525.00 bindings - I think they had my name on them -

I could also buy a 2005 Head SG for about the same price - 200.00-350.00 bindings -

I can't decide -
post #14 of 14
When I take skis into the shop, I make sure there is a note stuck on the skis with instructions on how I want them tuned when I leave the shop, unless I'm talking to the guy who is going to tune them and he used to race on the exact same ski and used the same tune, which happened once.
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