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Can skis be "too sharp?" - Page 3

post #61 of 84

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post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



 

 

I can ski a 120+ fat EVERWHERE as well does not mean its logical or a good choice

 

I am sure I could ski a SL ski set at 1/3 everywhere as well, but would it be better than my "the one" set at 2/4 I think not.

 

I would rather be able to use high edge angles everywhere so I use the bending of the ski to make turns. I have found that overly sharp skis off trail means I have to tone back my skiing quite bit.  I am looking for every angle for maxium performance for what I am doing and how I am doing it. Until I started getting winded chasing people down mized conditions off piste runs(including trees) on 0 base bevel SL ski then I might change my stubborn but well informed mind.

 

beside I would love to see you seeing bumps on your 0/0 skis.

 

 

 

 


Yo yo yo amigo!!!!!!!!!

 

We're not talking about the bevel.  We're talking about whether or not to detune after filing and removing any hanging burs.  It can still be a REALLY sharp 2/4 or a detuned 2/4.  OP is asking if we should detune after filing.

 

FWIW, I do run a 0/0 on my Cabrawlers,  I used to detune the tip and tail for about 10 cm of contact but haven't in awhile now.  So, point BPA on the dullness there.  But I don't detune anything else.  Old school thinking was detune the tips and tails but make it cut diamonds under foot.  Regardless of the bevel angles/tune, I want the edge of it as sharp as possible all the time.

 

post #63 of 84

You can get ski edges pretty sharp but they won't stay that way for long.

The steel in the edge has to be soft enough to file and not easily work hardened.

This is a long way from what knives are made from.

 

Atomic made some skis with stainless steel edges that held up really well.

They proved very hard to file and Atomic stopped making them.

Best thing to do to keep sharp is to wipe your skis after skiing.

Rust will take a fine edge off really fast.

 

post #64 of 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

I can ski a 120+ fat EVERWHERE as well does not mean its logical or a good choice

 

I am sure I could ski a SL ski set at 1/3 everywhere as well, but would it be better than my "the one" set at 2/4 I think not.

 

I would rather be able to use high edge angles everywhere so I use the bending of the ski to make turns. I have found that overly sharp skis off trail means I have to tone back my skiing quite bit.  I am looking for every angle for maxium performance for what I am doing and how I am doing it. Until I started getting winded chasing people down mized conditions off piste runs(including trees) on 0 base bevel SL ski then I might change my stubborn but well informed mind.

 

beside I would love to see you seeing bumps on your 0/0 skis.

Bush you've seen Bob ski bumps all the time. He's basically skiing a 0/3deg most of the time.

I usually start out at now at a 1/2 /3.

Interesting theory on your 2/4 off roading set up.

 

2 years ago we were at Snowmass when there wasn't much snow and a lot of grippy manmade everywhere.  I was using a pair of Bob's skis that cgeib had set up 0/3. Or, cgeib claimed it had a slight base bevel on it. (Like he waved a stone at it and called it a lot)

The ski was really grippy and frankly annoying. I just wanted to be able to slide sideways in peace. Ok, shoot me that my boot setup wasn't accurate enough.

 

All I wanted to do was put a 1/2 on the base. Basically I had to slip cgeib a rufi, and then listen to him complain, mumbling and calling me a criminal for butchering a pair of perfectly tuned skis. Bob was distressed, but I guess figured the skis would be used for rehabilitation purposes for those in need. He then started planning an article for ICE magazine on atrocities committed by tuners against fine steel.

Well the rufi didn't work, and I've never heard the end of it. The good news is I can offer to tune cgeib's skis, and he'll just start screaming and run away. cool.gif
 

 

post #65 of 84

If you stick to a 0 base bevel you have to remove a lot of side material each time you want the edges sharp. It's like sharpening a knife on only one side.

post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

If you stick to a 0 base bevel you have to remove a lot of side material each time you want the edges sharp. It's like sharpening a knife on only one side.


How would this change for any other bevel angle?
post #67 of 84

On my SL skis I have a 0/4 and I just run a stone in a 4deg guide on the side edge to keep them sharp. I don't think I

remove much material. I do this almost after every day I use them.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

If you stick to a 0 base bevel you have to remove a lot of side material each time you want the edges sharp. It's like sharpening a knife on only one side.



 

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeib View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

If you stick to a 0 base bevel you have to remove a lot of side material each time you want the edges sharp. It's like sharpening a knife on only one side.


How would this change for any other bevel angle?

It doesn't.
post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Quote:

Bush you've seen Bob ski bumps all the time. He's basically skiing a 0/3deg most of the time.

I usually start out at now at a 1/2 /3.

Interesting theory on your 2/4 off roading set up.

 

2 years ago we were at Snowmass when there wasn't much snow and a lot of grippy manmade everywhere.  I was using a pair of Bob's skis that cgeib had set up 0/3. Or, cgeib claimed it had a slight base bevel on it. (Like he waved a stone at it and called it a lot)

The ski was really grippy and frankly annoying. I just wanted to be able to slide sideways in peace. Ok, shoot me that my boot setup wasn't accurate enough.

 

All I wanted to do was put a 1/2 on the base. Basically I had to slip cgeib a rufi, and then listen to him complain, mumbling and calling me a criminal for butchering a pair of perfectly tuned skis. Bob was distressed, but I guess figured the skis would be used for rehabilitation purposes for those in need. He then started planning an article for ICE magazine on atrocities committed by tuners against fine steel.

Well the rufi didn't work, and I've never heard the end of it. The good news is I can offer to tune cgeib's skis, and he'll just start screaming and run away. cool.gif
 

 



That's just wrong. biggrin.gif

post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeib View Post


How would this change for any other bevel angle?

This picture should clarify. Angles are larger than normal to illustrate. the gray line illustrates how much side edge you have to remove to get back to your desired base bevel angle.
 

Bevel vs no bevel.jpg

With no base bevel the edges will be sharp before you remove all the effect of the dull wear, However in practive you have a base bevel different from zero in this case. The base bevel angle is determined by the tip , not the entire metal base.

post #71 of 84
Thanks, Jamt. I thought that might be what you had in mind. Might be worth adding how a base grind periodically - but not too frequently - would fit in your illustration.
post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

This picture should clarify. Angles are larger than normal to illustrate. the gray line illustrates how much side edge you have to remove to get back to your desired base bevel angle.
 

Bevel vs no bevel.jpg

With no base bevel the edges will be sharp before you remove all the effect of the dull wear, However in practive you have a base bevel different from zero in this case. The base bevel angle is determined by the tip , not the entire metal base.

Thanks.  This is also what I had in mind when defining sharpness and dullness being the quality (less round=more sharp) of the point.  Bevel isn't very relevant when asking "can a ski be too sharp".  It is basically asking if you prefer some detune (dulling) on whatever bevel/tune you are skiing.
 

 

Yesterday, I traded skis with someone (named Old Boot) and got to experience skiing on a very good cheater GS ski that had a very bad edge in severe need of a tune up.  It skied like the first run on completely unscraped wax compared to my skis, and I was on bump skis LOL!  I suspect OB is filing them right now hahaha!

post #73 of 84

Just my 2 cents but if the skis are railed the will always feel "to sharp" Always make sure the bases are flat or all the tuning or de-tuning in the world will not help..

post #74 of 84

FIXED IT FOR YA!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2time View Post

Just my 2 cents but if the skis are railed the will always feel "to sharp" Always make sure the bases are FLAT 10MM IN FROM EACH EDGE  or all the tuning or de-tuning in the world will not help..



 


Edited by Atomicman - 2/17/12 at 6:57pm
post #75 of 84

Thanks the above statement is more true for the newer wider skis. The wider the ski the is the harder it is to get flat. Try as you may you will never get your skis truly  flat. You can also add more bevel in the tips and tails if the ski still feels "to sharp"

post #76 of 84

Diesel fuel if we recall is perfect for de tuning a ski.

post #77 of 84

icon14.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2time View Post

Thanks the above statement is more true for the newer wider skis. The wider the ski the is the harder it is to get flat. Try as you may you will never get your skis truly  flat. You can also add more bevel in the tips and tails if the ski still feels "to sharp"



 

post #78 of 84

Chatter comes from putting the ski onto much angle and it not tracking.

post #79 of 84

Hi here is a new toll in France for the edge check the video . I get one last week very easy nd better than the old discman  wintersteiger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiF3u_u3C0w

post #80 of 84

As much as people want to say "it's the skier not the ski" (which always begs the question why the people who say this just don't strap 2x4's to their feet, if it's all the skier), a ski can absolutely be too sharp.  It all depends on what you want to use it for.  Race skis should be tuned differently than all mountain skis, which should be tuned differently than powder skis and so on.

post #81 of 84

Hmmmm

 

This is one of those threads that will live on forever with no real answer. it just keep sucking us into it. i will add this to it this year. 

 

"can skis be "too  sharp" " IMPOSSIBLE !

 

Can the skills of the so called technician that tuned them for you be  too dull ?  HIGHLY PROBABLE !

 

Please before answering in the contrary consider the following statements:

 

Can my knife, lawnmower, razor, scissors, eyesight, wit, c note, cheddar, pencil, syringe, fish hook, nail, screw, mind, arrow. propeller, saw, needle, axe be "too sharp" ?

 

I say NO.

 

Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2time View Post

Hmmmm

 

This is one of those threads that will live on forever with no real answer. it just keep sucking us into it. i will add this to it this year. 

 

"can skis be "too  sharp" " IMPOSSIBLE !

 

Can the skills of the so called technician that tuned them for you be  too dull ?  HIGHLY PROBABLE !

 

Please before answering in the contrary consider the following statements:

 

Can my knife, lawnmower, razor, scissors, eyesight, wit, c note, cheddar, pencil, syringe, fish hook, nail, screw, mind, arrow. propeller, saw, needle, axe be "too sharp" ?

 

I say NO.

 

Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

  They can be too sharp for chalky, hard snowrolleyes.gif...Though I suppose one could always re-bevel, or just detune a tadsmile.gif

post #83 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2time View Post

Hmmmm

 

This is one of those threads that will live on forever with no real answer. it just keep sucking us into it. i will add this to it this year. 

 

"can skis be "too  sharp" " IMPOSSIBLE !

 

Can the skills of the so called technician that tuned them for you be  too dull ?  HIGHLY PROBABLE !

 

Please before answering in the contrary consider the following statements:

 

Can my knife, lawnmower, razor, scissors, eyesight, wit, c note, cheddar, pencil, syringe, fish hook, nail, screw, mind, arrow. propeller, saw, needle, axe be "too sharp" ?

 

I say NO.

 

Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif

  They can be too sharp for chalky, hard snowrolleyes.gif...Though I suppose one could always re-bevel, or just detune a tadsmile.gif


In a pig''s eye.

post #84 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post


In a pig''s eye.

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