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Sugarbush to Focus on Moguls at Mt. Ellen - Page 2

post #31 of 58
the more I think about it this makes so much sense. They are tapping into the MRG thing (as they are adjacent). Less energy to run the groomers also so they may save there as well.
post #32 of 58
What happened? No more money to run the Bombardiers after all that construction at 'South'???

Glen Ellen sounds more like an MJ of the East. The 'Bush may stop grooming, but in no way can compete with MRG's super fun twisty-turny trails and glades!
post #33 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milllah View Post
What happened? No more money to run the Bombardiers after all that construction at 'South'???
Actually, Bombi doesn't make cats anymore

We run Bullies and one Prinoth. And considering the fact that we bought two additional cats this season, I don't think the no money excuse is gonna hold up!
post #34 of 58
Thread Starter 
Picture of snow at Mt. Ellen from yesterday. Stoke!

post #35 of 58
I'm late to this thread, but I like it too.

More and more I like what the new management is doing.
I had two great trips there last spring (after years of not bother ing to go there).

On a different note, I think the "escape path leads to lousy moguls" theory could be right. Accessibility certainly does. I'm thinking of the difference between the moguls on Ripcord (perfect) and those on Steins (ugly, jagged, random things) on my late-spring day there. Steins is an impulse buy at the top of the lift, while you have to make an effort to get back to where the ripcord lift is.

(Disclaimer - I think i have the name of the trail right, but could be remembering wrong.)
post #36 of 58
If they use their snowmaking, that would pretty much require grooming. MRG has no snowmaking and no grooming on the steep trails.
post #37 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
If they use their snowmaking, that would pretty much require grooming. MRG has no snowmaking and no grooming on the steep trails.
Not if you use a wide-dispersal method. For example, two seasons ago (when Mt. Ellen still opened first) the mountain opened with man-made snow and zero grooming. Makes a better product, because the snow has plenty of time to leach out water content.
post #38 of 58
More air in the mixture? Lighter and fluffier.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
More air in the mixture? Lighter and fluffier.
Definately works when cooking an omlet..... Making snow, a wee more complicated.
post #40 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
More air in the mixture? Lighter and fluffier.
There's a lot more to snowmaking than that. There's also economics. When your wetbulb is >20F and you're trying to set a base, lighter and fluffier isn't the answer. It's inefficient, and does not set up nicely for the season.

Snowmaking is a science, and an art. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
There's a lot more to snowmaking than that. There's also economics. When your wetbulb is >20F and you're trying to set a base, lighter and fluffier isn't the answer. It's inefficient, and does not set up nicely for the season.

Snowmaking is a science, and an art. There is a lot more going on than meets the eye.
I am sure there is. But I've been around enough to know that mountains that blow snow on bump runs tend to groom them out a lot.

The base that you refer to is actually the same type of base all mountains lay down in early season. I am no expert at all about snowmaking, but it seems like the bumps form wider and harder than with natural snow. Bear Mountain as an example.
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMogulMaster View Post
Not if you use a wide-dispersal method. For example, two seasons ago (when Mt. Ellen still opened first) the mountain opened with man-made snow and zero grooming. Makes a better product, because the snow has plenty of time to leach out water content.
Does that allow for a softer more powdery snow. I have skied Sugarbush with blown powder early season in bumps and it was excellent. If they do that at the top of Ellen at least there will be one good day
post #43 of 58
*Hijack about making snow
A while back Boyne Mountain installed under ground water lines (Air lines too, I think) to feed their snow making equipment. They have a difficult time making snow earlier in the season because the ground temps insulate the lines.
At the other resorts, the line temps drop with the air temps, and thus make it easier to make snow.
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
If they use their snowmaking, that would pretty much require grooming. MRG has no snowmaking and no grooming on the steep trails.
You can also snowmake just to get a base down and cover the rocks. Groom it out so you have a reliable base. Then, let natural takes it's course, a bit of snow, a few skiers, and you get natural bumps.

Keep in mind at on good years, you don't even need snowmaking in that part of VT. In mediocre years, just snowmaking enough for a base would make a lot more terrain skiable early and late in season. In really lousy years, you just give up on the concept of semi-natural bump trails.

I've also seen a dusty to a few inches done over bumps without grooming out and it works. Just gets skied right back into bumps. Only if you try to lay down whales in one night would it be a problem.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
What he said.

I wish they'd do that at plain old Sugar Mountain too. Alas that is a big snowboard haven so they will never allow bumps to survive there.
Lots and lots of bump runs Sugarbush proper. All of castlerock, half of heaven's gate and 3 or 4 runs off of the lincoln peak double have bumps year round.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
If they use their snowmaking, that would pretty much require grooming. MRG has no snowmaking and no grooming on the steep trails.
Not true. They have a couple of guns and can run them pretty much anywhere on the lower third of the mountain.
post #47 of 58
No reason to even bother with Mad River now that North is laden with bumps.

I bet MRG goes out of business because of it.
What do you think??
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treewell View Post
No reason to even bother with Mad River now that North is laden with bumps.

I bet MRG goes out of business because of it.
What do you think??


post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treewell View Post
No reason to even bother with Mad River now that North is laden with bumps.

I bet MRG goes out of business because of it.
What do you think??

This is a joke right? There is not a ski area in the world with a more devoted group of skiers then MRG. People donated over $1mil just to keep the main lift a single chair.

The only thing that could put MRG out of business is Global Warming.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosen View Post
This is a joke right?
Yes.
post #51 of 58
Thread Starter 
The season is near!



post #52 of 58
I love the bush ... will make it up in a few weeks hopefully.
post #53 of 58
Where are the bumps

I plan to be there this season
post #54 of 58

Anyone know how this all went for 08/09?

 

Anyone know if they're planning to do it again for 09/10?

 

Me, I hope so.  Haven't been to SB in too long and might actually get there this year.

 

post #55 of 58

I've had a timeshare there since '84, and we used to ski Glen Ellen into May most years. Our week was the 2nd or 3rd week in April, and back then the Basin area closed by early April, now it is the other way around. THis is due to the fact that most of the base area development is at the Basin.

So, as far as touting GE as the mogul side of the Sugarbush equation, that is why we bought there in the first place. April bump skiing there is the best in VT, hands down. The remote location it has kept the crowds down, way down, th to Killington's location to the south. Anyway, with trails like Upper FIS and Exterminator, to name a few, the snow would soften to a perfect SL ski round-mounds.

I'll try and scan a few picks and post them today.

By the way, those same soft bumps could be icebergs in mid winter, but the east exposure helped to soften them even on cooler days as long as the sun was beamin'.

Yep, the spring is the time to get there IMO, but if it POWs, head to the Basin area.

Mad River Valley is the home of the Egan brothers, and alot of great ski memories. 

I wish they would bring back the gondola, sorry for my flashback!

post #56 of 58

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post

Anyone know how this all went for 08/09?

 

Anyone know if they're planning to do it again for 09/10?

 

Me, I hope so.  Haven't been to SB in too long and might actually get there this year.

 

The MRV had an up and down season as a whole. Mutha nature you know!

The MRG goin' down is funny, real funny. April Fools joke right?

 

Here are some old pics of GE or Mt. Ellen for those of you who haven't been there.
Once off the top chair you have Rim Run which drops you into everything on the upper & mid-mountain.

My bro under the old upper double chair, long gone now. Me in the dark blue T. Also the drive up the mt. in April. Upper FIS and a pic of snow at the t-share.

post #57 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post

Anyone know how this all went for 08/09?

 

Anyone know if they're planning to do it again for 09/10?

 

Me, I hope so.  Haven't been to SB in too long and might actually get there this year.

 



It went great last season.  Traffic patterns altered significantly as a result of several quality learning areas with low-angle bumps.  At first, people tended to avoid the new bumped areas (skiers' left Lookin' Good, and skiers' left Which Way).  However, as the season progressed, these became two of the most popular areas of the mountain.  People were loving the easy bumps.  Cliffs was a huge hit as well, with some of the finest lines I've ever skied.  Near the end of one spring Saturday, I estimated nearly 200 people skiing bumps on Cliffs alone! 

For the vast majority of the season, we had good bumps on Black Diamond, Exterminator, Bravo, Tumbler, Hammerhead, Cliffs, Encore, Lookin' Good, Which Way, and Semi-Tough.  There were bumps on FIS, but as a result of the snowmaking schedule, and lack of skier visits following snowmaking (due to a sub-zero weekend), the snow firmed up such that bumps never formed properly all season.

Overall, I would say it was a great success.  There were naturally a few grumblings. You can't please everybody.  But in general, folks who thought they hated bumps decided that they could be fun!  Especially kids... the kids loved it, and the half/half trails allowed whole families to ski the trail and find something they like.

You can expect an equal (and likely greater) committment to moguls at Mt. Ellen this season.  See ya on the hill!
post #58 of 58
Glad it worked out. Nice part of the equation now is that after GE closes you can go back to the Basin area and hammer it there.
You got to love spring bumps!
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