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Binders for wide skis

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Guys,

Will be riding some fairly wide skis this year....115mm underfoot. There's so much debate both here and on TGR around bindings. In fact, bindings seem to instill more passionate gear discussions than skis or boots. The main themes have to do with safety, of course, as well as durability.

What do you recommend for a Level 8 skiier, 185 pounds...6 foot 3...so fairly long and lean. The skis are the Praxis Pow RX which have a medium flex in a 189 length. Ski fairly aggressively in bowls, chutes, steeps and trees. Most of my skiing is the 'Bird, Alta and the Park City back bowls. I do some slackcountry but am a bit too lazy to need a full touring binding. My Din setting is typically around 9.

My mind is open to suggestions but the early list of candidates include:

Head Mojo 15
Marker Jester/Griffon
Salomon STH 16

I would love some thoughts and feedback on those choices and others if you have some so I can pull the trigger on these fairly soon.

cheers
post #2 of 23
That's a great list of worthy bindings, add the Rossi SAS 150 wide and you have 4 great choices...

Can't go wrong with any of them.
post #3 of 23
another vote for the 8-15 din rossis/looks/dynastars. and let me really quickly place a quick vote AGAINST the mojo 15's. otherwise, just go with the cheapest, most readily available, most easily mounted (jig availability) option out of the remaining 3 aforementioned bindings
post #4 of 23
You could also look at the new Saloman STH14 which will be available very soon.. At your height/weight with a 9 din should be fine.. I just bought a pair of thunders that will be mounted with these binders... I'm 5'11" 180 9 din as well....
post #5 of 23
Jester/Griffon -With Jester being all metal, I think it will hold its resale value better and potentially make it easier for you to sell the setup later.

Mojo 15: I have Mojo 15's a on couple pairs of skis. One of which is 110mm under foot.

I would highly recommend the Mojo 15's. No pre-release issues and I have come out when I should have. Also, I haven't have any durability issues. I run my DIN at 10 (weigh 225# and been know it carry a little speed.)
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDay View Post
Jester/Griffon -With Jester being all metal, I think it will hold its resale value better and potentially make it easier for you to sell the setup later.
the jesters are not all metal.
post #7 of 23
ok, more metal than the griffons.
post #8 of 23
At a DIN 9 you will be fine with a stanard 12 din model like the Look PX12. Only problem with this sort is they tend to not last as long as metal bindings especially if you do 100 days a season. I am not sure you will want Solly 916 if you only run a din of 9. Many people seem to be sketched out running either the top or borrom number on the scale. Also just fyi, the Look / Rossi 15 din with the race toe do not have upward release. Just keep that in mind if upward toe release is important to you.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post
Also just fyi, the Look / Rossi 15 din with the race toe do not have upward release. Just keep that in mind if upward toe release is important to you.
personally, the only time that i would want upward toe release would be in a slow, backwards, twisting fall. and the only time that i could think of where that might happen is skiing park
post #10 of 23
I second StormDay's recommendation of the Mojos. I have a pair on my 195 Praxis Powders. The 115mm brakes should work perfectly. And he's being very modest about his speed.

If you want to go Salomon, it looks like some folks are reporting problems with the STH16. You can buy the 916 Equipe from Level Nine for $220.

Look/Rossi 14+ DIN clamps are also a very good option.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Good comments and feedback guys..thx. LukC...why the vote agains the Mojo15? Have you had a bad experience with it? SDskiier...is the STH14 like the 16 just lower Din and lighter? Griffon is supposed to be the same as Jester just lighter is what I've read.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
If you want to go Salomon, it looks like some folks are reporting problems with the STH16. You can buy the 916 Equipe from Level Nine for $220.
unfortunately, after extensive research, those are in fact the sth16 toes. i actually scored a pair from level 9 when they originally mispriced them at like ~$160 or something, but due to a combination of not really having the money at the time (attempting to live beyond my means) and confirming that the toes were sth16 toes, i cancelled my order before they shipped.

i remember reading about some shortage of race bindings or whatever and the quick importation of all red sth16 toe pieces... details aren't too fresh in my mind anymore, but i'm 100% positive on this.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknload View Post
Good comments and feedback guys..thx. LukC...why the vote agains the Mojo15? Have you had a bad experience with it?
i've never skied the actual 15 din tyrolia/head bindings, but i've skied railflex bindings at 10 din before on the demo pm gear skis and they were not very secure at all. in fact, on that same day, splat (the guy behind pm gear) was heading back in, covered with snow saying how he had just "walked out" of the bindings himself... TWICE!
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukc View Post
unfortunately, after extensive research, those are in fact the sth16 toes. i actually scored a pair from level 9 when they originally mispriced them at like ~$160 or something, but due to a combination of not really having the money at the time (attempting to live beyond my means) and confirming that the toes were sth16 toes, i cancelled my order before they shipped.

i remember reading about some shortage of race bindings or whatever and the quick importation of all red sth16 toe pieces... details aren't too fresh in my mind anymore, but i'm 100% positive on this.
In that case, I'd suggest checking in with Level Nine before finalizing the order. However, the listing suggests that this is a new item in their stock, so your concerns may be misplaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukc View Post
i've never skied the actual 15 din tyrolia/head bindings, but i've skied railflex bindings at 10 din before on the demo pm gear skis and they were not very secure at all. in fact, on that same day, splat (the guy behind pm gear) was heading back in, covered with snow saying how he had just "walked out" of the bindings himself... TWICE!
So what you're saying is that, because you had problems with a different pair of bindings made by the same company, that you borrowed, not owned, these must suck?

Let's run through the facts.

The bindings you were on presumably use a different toe and heel than the Mojo 15s.

They also were Railflex bindings, which means they use a different attachment interface.

They also were demo bindings, which takes you another leap away.

Finally, you have no way of knowing whether the problems were with the specific pair of bindings, rather than even that model. (The fact that Splat continues to mount Tyrolia bindings on PM Gear demos suggests that this was a specific problem.)

StormDay and I both have Mojo 15 and similar bindings (FF+17s and d10s) installed on multiple pairs of skis. I have stopped using Salomon, and now use only Tyrolia and Look. In fact, the only reason I use Looks is that my usual shop doesn't have a Tyrolia jig. The only other advantage of the Looks over the Tyrolias is being able to lift the heelpiece to clamp in when it's too difficult to make a platform. I ski hard, with my DIN set between 9-10, and my Tyrolias have given me zero problems with premature release, failure to release, or sloppiness, even in seriously adverse conditions (e.g., maneuvering a loaded toboggan over a cornice or through a steep mogul field).

I understand that, having had a bad day on these, you would likely be reluctant to purchase them yourself. That's fine. But a single day on a pair of bindings you know little about really isn't adequate information to advise others.


Now that we've gotten that out of the way... cue Phill!
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
In that case, I'd suggest checking in with Level Nine before finalizing the order. However, the listing suggests that this is a new item in their stock, so your concerns may be misplaced.
i'm still almost completely certain that these are the same bindings that i ordered. it happened about a month ago and the mis-marked price was due to the fact that they had not officially loaded the item onto their site (as in, if you searched their website, you would NOT have found them), but they somehow came up in a google search. they were in the process of adding those very bindings to their website at a HIGHER price, but they honored the sales made at the unintended, lower price.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
So what you're saying is that, because you had problems with a different pair of bindings made by the same company, that you borrowed, not owned, these must suck?

Let's run through the facts.

The bindings you were on presumably use a different toe and heel than the Mojo 15s.

They also were Railflex bindings, which means they use a different attachment interface.

They also were demo bindings, which takes you another leap away.

Finally, you have no way of knowing whether the problems were with the specific pair of bindings, rather than even that model. (The fact that Splat continues to mount Tyrolia bindings on PM Gear demos suggests that this was a specific problem.)

StormDay and I both have Mojo 15 and similar bindings (FF+17s and d10s) installed on multiple pairs of skis. I have stopped using Salomon, and now use only Tyrolia and Look. In fact, the only reason I use Looks is that my usual shop doesn't have a Tyrolia jig. The only other advantage of the Looks over the Tyrolias is being able to lift the heelpiece to clamp in when it's too difficult to make a platform. I ski hard, with my DIN set between 9-10, and my Tyrolias have given me zero problems with premature release, failure to release, or sloppiness, even in seriously adverse conditions (e.g., maneuvering a loaded toboggan over a cornice or through a steep mogul field).

I understand that, having had a bad day on these, you would likely be reluctant to purchase them yourself. That's fine. But a single day on a pair of bindings you know little about really isn't adequate information to advise others.


Now that we've gotten that out of the way... cue Phill!
ok, so this may all be fair enough...

but just as a 10 din marker biometric toe is not much better than a 20 din marker biometric toe, i don't think i was comparing apples on mars to oranges on venus here. i always assumed that the pm gear guys used those bindings just because of how good they are for adjusting the mount point, since your typical pm gear patron likes to play around with that kind of thing. and i doubt that the problem had anything to do with the bindings interface with the ski. rather, i suspect it was their proprietary "diagonal" release feature, which is something that the bindings i was on an the bindings in question have in COMMON. and you are probably right that they toe/heels are somewhat different than the model i was on, but, to my understanding, there is no SIGNIFICANT construction differences between the higher din tyrolia/heads than their lower din models (like an all metal 916/920 vs. your standard 912/914, for example).

not trying to argue. and sorry if it seemed as though i was trying to rant against the mojo 15's. i wasn't trying to act like an authority on them, as i still defer to those who actually ride on them (such as alpinedad and stormday)... all i did was place my own, PERSONAL vote against them, because, as alpinedad said, i have my OWN reasons for not wanting to buy them
post #17 of 23
The Marker comparison is inapposite. The Railflex bindings presumably used the LD (light diagonal) toe. The Mojo uses the Aero (race) toe.

But again, you have no idea whether that particular pair of bindings was failing -- which sometimes happens -- or whether it was endemic to that model.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinedad View Post
But again, you have no idea whether that particular pair of bindings was failing -- which sometimes happens -- or whether it was endemic to that model.
once again, you have a point here. so in the name of "personal enrichment," i did as much research on tgr as i could on the higher din tyrolias/heads/fischers/elans... and it seems that there are not too many major gripes, but, in all fairness, a recurring theme was that these bindings are more sensitive to forward pressure than most bindings, and that it wasn't a bad idea to go at least 1 up from your usual din.

i know there are people that believe din is universally standardized, but i still have a hard time believing that. a lab bench is different than the ski hill. and very NOT inappositely, that's why it's so hard to accurately measure the horsepower of a car on a dyno. because a fan in the shop is different than airflow on the road. all the forces (in this case: torsions, vibrations, jarring blows) that are relevant and that realistically come into play are probably not being captured by the standardizaton tests.
post #19 of 23
IMO...this is not worth all the agonizing.

The binding systems that have the most solid reputations out there are the Sollie Race models and the various LOOK derivatives.

Just buy one.

SJ
post #20 of 23
Did the same research on TGR and Epic for bindings on my new Katana's, also 115mm.
Yesterday I pulled the tricker on the Jesters. They seame to be the one binding that nobody has problems with.
Also, at the shop they felt the most solid and durable and somehow appealed to me the most.
They also have the widest platform, wich looks logical to me.
However, I'am "just a little bit" taller and heavier than you.
post #21 of 23
I remember reading about at least a couple of people who are on dukes (or jesters) still having to run 2-3 DIN points higher to keep from "markering out". Basically said that they could easily walk out of them when set at their standard chart seting (8 or 9). I think the theme was that the bindings are burly and ski well but still are markers. Just something I read on TGR. Also I had heard about a number of breakage issues with the duke.

I still sort of think that these questions asked in the OP are silly since bindings are so standardized and which are biased toward retention and release is fairly well established if you do a search, I don't see how questions like what binding do I want really get asked or answered, What what brake width you need is fairly cut and dry and what din you like it so personal its really just up to you. Besides if you do walk out of the bindings easily at your regular chart setting many people will just crank it up until they are comfortable. Its not rocket science.
post #22 of 23
On my wider skis, I have used Sollie STH 16s as they go up to a 130 width brake with no issues.
On skis 109 and less I have used Railflex bindings with no issues. Hell, I have Railflex bindings on my Thunders and that is my hardest charging ski. I have all my bindings set between 9-10 and none have pre released ever. I would be curious to know if guys that pre release have a worn heel or toe on their boots and do they have their equipment tuned and checked out ever season by a pro? I guess I am lucky not to have binding issues, but my gear is usually well taken care of.
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
IMO...this is not worth all the agonizing.

The binding systems that have the most solid reputations out there are the Sollie Race models and the various LOOK derivatives.

Just buy one.

SJ
a... men
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