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How often do you lower the bar on the lift? - Page 4

Poll Results: How often do you lower the bar on the lift?

 
  • 46% (67)
    Always
  • 35% (51)
    Sometimes
  • 18% (26)
    Never
144 Total Votes  
post #91 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Getting hit by meteorites is about the same risk as falling off the chair? OK. I can buy that.
No, actually falling off the chair is probably a much higher risk probability wise.

Point is, falling off a chair, regardless of probability, probably hurts a lot more than getting hit or pinched by the bar.

Probability of running backwards into the bullwheel is pretty darn low too.

Oh, and personally, I like to lean over and look straight down when I"m on the lift quite often...the higher the better. Wouldn't do that with the bar up.
post #92 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
My on-chair routine:

1) Hold leg straight out, grab ski tips towards you. Pull and hold for calf stretch. Repeat on other leg.

2) Tip one ski tip to inside to make + with other ski. Reverse and put heelpiece of binding on top of other toepiece for + the other way. Repeat with other leg.

3) Practice flexing the boot with just the toes, up & down, together and alternating, ~20x each foot.

4) Repeat 1-3)
Yeah. I have to do that too when I'm on a chair with no footrest.
post #93 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Oh my god think of the kids!!!


How about teaching them how not to fall off the chairlift? That's what we do.
Hang on, Baker has some high degree of difficulty lifts.

I saw a ski instructor fall off one.
post #94 of 169
The REAL reason people don't put the bar down is so they won't look stupid when they doze off and can't get it up before going around the bull wheel at the unloading station.
post #95 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post
Hang on, Baker has some high degree of difficulty lifts.

I saw a ski instructor fall off one.
That was probably me...

Actually I've seen quite a few falls from chairlifts...but all occurred at loading, before a bar would have made any difference.I've never seen a person fall from the middle of a lift, and I've got a fair few days in riding, operating or maintaining them.

PS...regarding the meteorites...that was mildly sarcastic.
post #96 of 169
Here is a quote by Ron Suskind that pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we cAreate our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."


If growing up on the east coast has taught me any thing its that some times you have to be That Guy. Its not about the merits, morality of ethical issues of pulling the bar or not pulling the bar. The bar is just sitting there waiting to be pulled. Some one is going to do it. It is about pulling the bar when you are ready for it. Just pull the bar as soon as you can because if you wait like a gentleman then when you are admiring the scenery or scoping your next line before you know it whamo, right in the nuts. Next time you will know, just sit down and pull the bar. Quickly becuase if you get the bar first thats one less shot the other guy has at you. Some times you just have to be that guy.
post #97 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrophobia View Post
Hang on, Baker has some high degree of difficulty lifts.

I saw a ski instructor fall off one.
If that's the day I'm thinking of, another quarter inch & that'd have been the TR shot of a lifetime: <name redacted> tangled up in the bottom net at Chair 1. Only quick reflexes saved that one! And cloudpeak just barely managed to avoid dropping off that same slippery chair.

And bar would not have helped...
post #98 of 169
At the S. Ontario areas where I ski, pulling the bar down is mandatory at all times (even when carrying up gate bundles), so I've gotten used to bringing it down all the time, whether I'm on duty or not.

I find the real excitement is at the top when it's time to raise the bar -- I've had people lean on the bar to prevent anyone from lifting the bar before the official sign says so...
post #99 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post
At the S. Ontario areas where I ski, pulling the bar down is mandatory at all times (even when carrying up gate bundles), so I've gotten used to bringing it down all the time, whether I'm on duty or not.

I find the real excitement is at the top when it's time to raise the bar -- I've had people lean on the bar to prevent anyone from lifting the bar before the official sign says so...
Mogulmuncher - I bet that was at mount st louis! They had some kind of official sign awareness campaign a few weekends in a row or something! The liftees would point at the sign, and be like, "...NOW!" and then you could lift! It caught on as a funny thing among some people in our ski club to point to the sign and wait until the exact moment to lift (only when it was us on the lifts of course.)

...but yeah, leaning on the bar to stop from raising it is a bit excessive. Let's not go crazy
post #100 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by manchester81 View Post
Another thread had me thinking about Fortress in Alberta. Their farside lift had a wire to clip in front of you. I don't think anybody ever used it though.

I wonder if that was unique to Fortress?
I remember that! That always frightened me as a kid, thinking that if I fell I'd be cut in half by the super skinny wire.

As for my answer, I usually lower the bar. I wear a backpack and sometimes it kinda pushes me forwards so I'm not quite tucked back on the chair. The bar gives me something to lean on, and a place to put my hands rather than my lift buddies' laps. It's not really a safety concern, as I don't usually use one in the summer when I'm riding a bike without a backpack. Mostly it gives me something to lean on.
post #101 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Oh, and personally, I like to lean over and look straight down when I"m on the lift quite often...the higher the better. Wouldn't do that with the bar up.
I'll bet you are glad your Nanny State has made it law for you to use that bar to quell your irrational fears then.

You don't need a bar to bend over and look straight down BTW. When I was a young, dumb teenager we would stretch our arms straight up and push our hands hard against the back of the crossbar on the bail. Then we'd all release together and swing down and slap our chests against our thighs. On a rickety old triple with a slippery plastic seat. I didn't fall out, though it did scare the piss out of me. Yay physics.

I'm so glad I left upstate NY for land of freedom and personal responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobatt
Mostly it gives me something to lean on
If you trust comfort bars on lifts enough to lean against them, you are a very brave individual. Haven't you ever seen them fall off? I've never seen a rollback for instance, but I've seen a dozen or so bars on the ground over the years...plus a few complete bails.
post #102 of 169
I've never seen a bar fall off, I'll be honest. But I guess that makes me lift macho, then right?
post #103 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
I'll bet you are glad your Nanny State has made it law for you to use that bar to quell your irrational fears then.
I feel dumber just for being in the same internets as you.
post #104 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
Mogulmuncher - I bet that was at mount st louis! They had some kind of official sign awareness campaign a few weekends in a row or something! The liftees would point at the sign, and be like, "...NOW!" and then you could lift! It caught on as a funny thing among some people in our ski club to point to the sign and wait until the exact moment to lift (only when it was us on the lifts of course.)

...but yeah, leaning on the bar to stop from raising it is a bit excessive. Let's not go crazy
I recall racing at Devils Glen, that if you didn't put the bar down they would stop the lift until you did. All the while barking over the intercom. :
post #105 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post
I think in Europe they'd stop a chair if they saw someone hadn't lowered it.
Not too likely. I found many European lifties are totally NOT into their job. They hardly notice someone has fallen off, let alone someone left the bar up.

By myself, I don't bother with the bar. So I would vote "Never". And I did get asked by my British friends why I don't feel scared with the bar open. Well, how can one explain what one don't feel?

Though that doesn't mean the bar is not down when I'm on the chair. I found the a lot of people like to have the bar down. So I never have to do it myself. Just mindful to stay out of the way. Whoever wants it down, they go ahead and pull it down. But if anyone expect me to do it, they'd be waiting till the chair got to the top!

The few times I rode with children, I've been asked (by the little ones) to lower it for them since some of them aren't big enough to do it yet. For that, I do it for them. There's something irresistable about request coming from children, especially ones wearing skis!

In short, if I'm with anyone else on the chair, chances are the bar is down. On my own, I leave it up. I've not had much trouble from the lifties with that either.
post #106 of 169
Yeah, you're right, they don't pay attention to loading or unloading much, do they? But try to ride up without lowering the bar some time...
post #107 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Oh my god think of the kids!!!


How about teaching them how not to fall off the chairlift? That's what we do.
Good idea, Harry. The thing about teaching kids something, though, is that a lot of times they don't do what you're teaching them to do. I think that's in the nature of teaching. And kids.

On this subject, good grief. As I said earlier, I never put the bar down on my own, unless it has a footrest and my legs want a breather, but I can't imagine getting worked up because someone else on the chair wants to put the bar down. Maybe I've just been fortunate to always ride with considerate people (certainly no weirdos), but I don't think anyone has ever bonked me on the head with the bar, or pinched any part of my anatomy (or, if it has happened, it just wasn't a big enough deal for me to remember). I'd sure be irritated if they did, to a greater or lesser degree depending on how much of a self-absorbed jacka$$ they seemed to be, but I'd write it off to people behaving badly rather than any fundamental problem with the presence of bars on chairlifts. I guess I'm surprised by how much of an issue this seems to be for some people.
post #108 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post
Good idea, Harry. The thing about teaching kids something, though, is that a lot of times they don't do what you're teaching them to do. I think that's in the nature of teaching. And kids.
Well, if a 100 foot drop beneath them isn't enough to convince them that your argument is sound, perhaps it's best to let natural selection do its thing.
post #109 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
Well, if a 100 foot drop beneath them isn't enough to convince them that your argument is sound, perhaps it's best to let natural selection do its thing.
Good point. And if a toddler or young child can't understand, or doesn't pay sufficient heed to, the danger posed by cars driving in a roadway, even though they've been warned, and walks in front of a passing car anyway, I say screw 'em. They were just too stupid to live.

I do wonder, though, how you're still around to post.

Wait, where are you riding chairlifts? I don't think I've ever been that high off the ground, but, again, I tend not to remember such things.
post #110 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post

Wait, where are you riding chairlifts? I don't think I've ever been that high off the ground, but, again, I tend not to remember such things.
i'm pretty sure the sugarloaf chair at alta is that high near the top. no safety bar and plenty of children riding it. fear of heights is something that is innate, it doesn't have to be learned like the dangers of crossing the street.
post #111 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
i'm pretty sure the sugarloaf chair at alta is that high near the top. no safety bar and plenty of children riding it.
Oh. I didn't think you were being serious about that kind of outlier. In any event, I don't think that says much about the efficacy of teaching in ensuring appropriate behavior of children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
fear of heights is something that is innate, it doesn't have to be learned like the dangers of crossing the street.
Are you sure about that? In any event (again), Harry was talking about teaching kids how not to fall off a chairlift, not teaching them to be afraid of the fall. A kid (or an adult, for that matter, though I'd say kids are more susceptible) may understand very well that falling off a chairlift is not a good thing, yet fail to take appropriate preventive measures, even if they've been taught what (and what not) to do. You say, tough; I'm not that hardcore.
post #112 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post

Are you sure about that? In any event (again), Harry was talking about teaching kids how not to fall off a chairlift, not teaching them to be afraid of the fall. A kid (or an adult, for that matter, though I'd say kids are more susceptible) may understand very well that falling off a chairlift is not a good thing, yet fail to take appropriate preventive measures, even if they've been taught what (and what not) to do. You say, tough; I'm not that hardcore.
yes, i am sure about that. in developmental psychology experiments, babies that can't even walk yet will refuse to crawl past the edge of an apparent drop off. just in my own observations, i saw a lot fewer kids screwing around and doing things that could potentially be dangerous on lifts without bars versus lifts with them.
post #113 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
yes, i am sure about that. in developmental psychology experiments, babies that can't even walk yet will refuse to crawl past the edge of an apparent drop off.
Well, I'm no expert, but Joseph Campos might be, and he's not sure about that. In fact, he's sure it's not an innate fear:

"As such, one would expect fear of heights to be innate, or under strong maturational control. Indeed, until recently, it was so considered. However, there is now no doubt that fear of heights develops as the result of experience, more specifically experiences linked to the onset of self-produced locomotion. It is not a maturational or innate event."

http://www.bec.ucla.edu/BECSpeakerSeries_2005-6.htm. Scroll down to "On the Epigenesis of Fear in the Human Infant."

Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
just in my own observations, i saw a lot fewer kids screwing around and doing things that could potentially be dangerous on lifts without bars versus lifts with them.
I haven't paid close enough attention to report my experience one way or the other. I'm surprised you have and a little bit skeptical. That experience is also not dispositive with respect to my original point. It does, though, raise what seems to me to be the plausible possibility that the presence of a bar may, perversely, make kids less safe by inducing them to be less cautious.
post #114 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post
Well, I'm no expert, but Joseph Campos might be, and he's not sure about that. In fact, he's sure it's not an innate fear:

"As such, one would expect fear of heights to be innate, or under strong maturational control. Indeed, until recently, it was so considered. However, there is now no doubt that fear of heights develops as the result of experience, more specifically experiences linked to the onset of self-produced locomotion. It is not a maturational or innate event."

http://www.bec.ucla.edu/BECSpeakerSeries_2005-6.htm. Scroll down to "On the Epigenesis of Fear in the Human Infant."
well, at any rate, it's there by the time babies learn to crawl, it's not something kids need to have explained to them. and since it's not exactly raining children at alta, i'm just going to go ahead and remain skeptical as to the value of the bar as a safety device. it's really hard to fall out of a chair unless you jump or are doing something reckless.
post #115 of 169
I'd have to argee there. I never see kids on Baker's chairs fooling around, but I recall quite a few instances of stupidity on chairlifts when i was a liftie in NJ...although that could speak to the childrearing habits of those of that persuasion, or to the quality of instruction given to the children about how to ride a lift.
post #116 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday View Post
yep, years of riding lifts, climbing rocks, and I still like it.
i like to be able to lean on it as well.

i don't like chairs like red dog at squaw w/ over a 1og 00ft exposure and no bar, especially w/ my kids (6 and 8 this year). i turn my poles into a bar.

cheers,
holiday
but Red Dog has a bar, has those dividers an' all
post #117 of 169
Alta. 2003. Supreme lift. I am riding the lift with a friend and his 13 year old son. The son has 2 seasons of Mass. skiing and 3 Snowbird days under his belt.

Problem: he can't sit in the back of the chair and put his knees over the lip.

Problem2: he can't reach the footrest

Problem3: he is sliding under the bar being pulled forward by his feet, boots and skis.

Problem 4: he is holding onto the bar but can't keep up the strength to do a full push up

Problem 5: Panicking as the lift hops over Piney Glade. We are both holding onto his coat at this point.

I talked him down Big Dipper for about an hour. (The kid had just spend several days bombing down Regulator Johnson and Gadzooks, mind)

The kid never skied again.

Adult restraining bars + footrests = useless.
Proper chair design = money.
post #118 of 169
The places I ski I'd probably get banned if I didn't. I never imagined anyone wouldn't lower a safety bar. Why the **** not?
post #119 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
I never imagined anyone wouldn't lower a safety bar. Why the **** not?
Because it is of doubtful utility when needed (see above story) and constant, grating, hassle when not needed.
post #120 of 169
Always, and as soon as the skis are off the ground, I swing it down. And if they others on the quad aren't paying attention, they get whacked in the head. If they are not wearing a helmet, it hurts. If they are, it doesn't.

Pay attention, where a helmet, and/or don't ride with me.
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