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How often do you lower the bar on the lift? - Page 5

Poll Results: How often do you lower the bar on the lift?

 
  • 46% (67)
    Always
  • 35% (51)
    Sometimes
  • 18% (26)
    Never
144 Total Votes  
post #121 of 169
Never occured to me not to lower the bar. Footrests take pressure off my knees and I'm not a big fan of heights when hanging over a treeline on a cable.
post #122 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Alta. 2003. Supreme lift. I am riding the lift with a friend and his 13 year old son. The son has 2 seasons of Mass. skiing and 3 Snowbird days under his belt.

Problem: he can't sit in the back of the chair and put his knees over the lip.

Problem2: he can't reach the footrest

Problem3: he is sliding under the bar being pulled forward by his feet, boots and skis.

Problem 4: he is holding onto the bar but can't keep up the strength to do a full push up

Problem 5: Panicking as the lift hops over Piney Glade. We are both holding onto his coat at this point.

I talked him down Big Dipper for about an hour. (The kid had just spend several days bombing down Regulator Johnson and Gadzooks, mind)

The kid never skied again.

Adult restraining bars + footrests = useless.
Proper chair design = money.
I didn't follow how the bar contributed to his dilemma. Is it somewhere in Problem 3?
post #123 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
No No Garrett, gotta be looking them in they eye and catch the facial expression when ya do that. That's where the REAL entertainment value comes in ! Wouldn't want to miss it.




You are invited to Tahoe. Every lift is different, even at the same resort.
thanks for the invitation however, the more then 20 hours of flying will kill my legs, i pass
post #124 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Because it is of doubtful utility when needed (see above story) and constant, grating, hassle when not needed.
1) I fail to see how the safety bar contributed to a problem that was always gonna be there.

2) Even if you doubt the utility, it can't do any harm to pull the bar down. It might, just might, save someone a nasty fall or even death. Why take the chance?

3) What "constant, grating hassle"? Bar down, bar up, no hassle.
post #125 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post
I didn't follow how the bar contributed to his dilemma. Is it somewhere in Problem 3?
I'm guessing that due to the short legnth of his femurs he coudln't sit up in the chair because his torso is so far forward he has to lean back cause the bar is above right in the middle of where he would be sitting if it weren't down. Maybe he could sit at the back of the chair with his legs straight and skis verticle? I guess I'll see this this year when my little ones take their first lift rides.
post #126 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
2) Even if you doubt the utility, it can't do any harm to pull the bar down. It might, just might, save someone a nasty fall or even death. Why take the chance?
In America, we haven't all given up on the idea that our personal safety is our own responsibility. Knowing that this bar does little or nothing for my personal safety, I find laws regarding its use capricious. They were passed based on feelings rather than science.

In America, a good portion of us believe laws limiting our freedom on the basis of safety must have compelling evidence supporting them. Remember that things like helmets on motorcycles aren't compulsory in all our states, and firearms are a 10 minute background check away. These facts are inconsistent with a mandate to lower a bar that merely provides comfort to irrational fears and legs.
post #127 of 169
Airria - I'll take photo's & post them for you. uh, yeah.

Garrett-Thanks. I wasn't paying attention to nationwide mandates. We don't have one here. The same resort can have lifts without safety bars, with safety bars, with/without footrests, etc. The inconsistency in itself is a lesson in common sense safety, but tends to freak out kids at times. They like to know what to expect when they get on for the ride. It turns out to be a chance to learn adaptability & coping w/the unexpected. I've gotten on lifts with kids I don't know, who have freaked & shed tears over the fixed grips, no safety bars. I teach them the ski pole trick & what all they can hold onto for that mental security. Then I make really stupid jokes to help them lose the tears. Plus, just don't move around. Sit still child, sit still. Hard for some.
post #128 of 169
I force the kids to get all the way back and legs straight, skis pointed up. If I rode with a little one on a chair without safety bar I would have my poles wedged into the armrest forcing the kid back. Heck, I sometimes wedge myself in with my poles.

I feel bad now for the times I shared a chair with Comprex. I'm sure I lowered the bar everytime without asking him if it was OK. He never complained.
post #129 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post
I didn't follow how the bar contributed to his dilemma. Is it somewhere in Problem 3?
I'm not following either. Aren't all the chairs about the same seat/seat back shape dimensions ?
post #130 of 169
To those who say the bar doesn't provide any safety, prove it.

To those who say it's a big hassle to lower it, put your arm over your head, now put it down on your lap. Was that a hassle?

To those who say it's bad for kids because they can slip under it (like the story above), I've had my two little ones on skis since they were three. For a long time they couldn't sit at the back of the chair, so they'd slide forward until their skis rested on the footrest. It gave them a stable base. They held onto the bar, with their butts halfway back on the seat. It was the most stable way for them to ride. Sometimes I'd put my poles in front of them if I was worried they might slip (like if the footrest was icy), but they have strong little arms and hands and never had a problem.

As long as the bar doesnt' break off (and if the chair is sound and well maintained it shouldn't), it clearly provides some level of safety to someone who might slip off or out of the chair. Assuming I could fit under the bar to slip out, I could easily grab on and pull myself back up. So could my kids. If the bar will break under something less than 200 lbs hanging off it, then it's value is lessened.

I have no fear of heights, at all. 20 feet, 200 feet...doesn't matter. I've been on lifts where the seats were icy and if the lift stopped suddenly you would slide forward...mayb only a couple inches, but without a bar, who knows how far?

Quit whining about being pinched by the bar, or bumped in the head. I've been hit. People say sorry. It doesn't hurt that much. Pinched. WTF...is getting pinched among your worst pain experiences?

Screw you guys, I"m going home. Someone should lock this thread and all the others that contribute nothing to this site.
post #131 of 169
i am a fan of footrests. Especially on long slow lifts
post #132 of 169
These are the late summer threads, Billy.

"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
connection... " ~ Howl, Allen Ginsberg
post #133 of 169
Doing some googling to see just how effective the restraining bars might be...no real info so far, but found an interesting article:

http://www.chalathatten.com/CM/Articles/Articles35.asp

Especially interesting part starting well down the page...search for "restraining"

"Pursuant to regulations adopted by the Passenger Tramway Safety Board, restraining devices were required during summer operation of the lifts but not during winter operation"
post #134 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstocksez View Post
I didn't follow how the bar contributed to his dilemma. Is it somewhere in Problem 3?
He could not stand on the foot rest as billyymc's kids apparently could because his thighs couldn't straighten out. Attempting to do it wedged him out of the seat even more and almost launched him down onto the mountain until Mikey did a 140 lb one-hand lift from 3 feet away.

Gotta love the overweening moral superiority of the fortunately sized.
post #135 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
These are the late summer threads, Billy.
I know, but can't we have some new ones, instead of the sames ones we had this time last year?
post #136 of 169
No, they're mostly only about safety bars. If you've got something better, start a new thread.
post #137 of 169
The image of a 3 year old using the foot rest is going to keep me up at night.
post #138 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911over View Post
I'm not following either. Aren't all the chairs about the same seat/seat back shape dimensions ?
If only. Newer ones, probably, but there are some weird outliers out there. Most commonly of the rickety old variety.
post #139 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
If only. Newer ones, probably, but there are some weird outliers out there. Most commonly of the rickety old variety.
You simply CANNOT be talking about Pete No.Idaho's ?? ! Very Cool lift chair. I didn't think the "growing size of America" and increasing size of seating options had reached ski resorts yet.

In reality when it comes to kids, there are few safe methods for riding a lift regardless of size/features of the lift. Sit back, hold still. If there is a bar, you may put your hands on it. If no bar, side of chair, parent's ski poles hook in across the lap w/arm behind on jacket collar.

Billymc - the lack of uniformity, consistency of chairseat setups/features is what is at the crux of all this. What to expect from each lift, each resort, state to state, country to country. Local customs, mandates, etc. just cause an unending variety of usage, confusion, expectation, emotion.... feel free to add to this list if you've ventured out from home again.

Garrett's bending over on a lift ride experiment worked better than this one did http://cbs13.com/local/ski.lift.death.2.598567.html
post #140 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
He could not stand on the foot rest as billyymc's kids apparently could because his thighs couldn't straighten out. Attempting to do it wedged him out of the seat even more and almost launched him down onto the mountain until Mikey did a 140 lb one-hand lift from 3 feet away.
I'm still not getting it. Did the chair design somehow force him to try to put his skis on the footrest? Or was it just a matter of him thinking that's what he was supposed to do, so he tried to do it, with nearly disastrous consequences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
Gotta love the overweening moral superiority of the fortunately sized.
If this is directed to me, I think you've got way too much emotion invested in the use of chairlift bars, which I've always thought to be pretty much of a triviality.
post #141 of 169
Comprex, we get the picture of the 13 yr old submarining under the bar. We just don't understand how come ? It could happen to our kids too. Why'd it happen? Draw us a picture for those of us, like me, who don't quite get the hows & would like to understand.

Nevermind - re-read it - footrests-got it. I can see that happening. Wonder if that & other issues is why some resorts don't have any footrests or cut them off.
post #142 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by duh
To those who say the bar doesn't provide any safety, prove it.
Sure, that'll be easy. Why don't you prove I didn't eat cherries for lunch today?

Unlike you, I know what B77.1 is. If restraining bars were a compelling safety feature, they'd be required. They aren't. Not by industry standards, not by the Forest Service, not by most states...including states that have gone to the trouble of establishing tramway boards to better regulate the safety of these conveyances. Just some silly nanny states like yours.

If you live in the nanny state long enough, the silliness starts to permeate your character. The only treatment is quick removal to a place where sanity prevails. Perhaps, surrounded by real mountains with tremendous natural hazards, nanny-staters would recognize how bizarre commitment to the idea that this feature provides "safety" is.
post #143 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
The image of a 3 year old using the foot rest is going to keep me up at night.
Actually, at 3, she probably sat with her feet straight out and skis pretty much vertical. When that stopped working she (actually both of them) would sit on the first half of the chair, and their feet could reach the footrest. Yes, I had to whack them a couple times when they actually stood up on the footrest (kids will be kids...no fear), and they stopped that pretty quickly.
post #144 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
Sure, that'll be easy. Why don't you prove I didn't eat cherries for lunch today?

Unlike you, I know what B77.1 is. If restraining bars were a compelling safety feature, they'd be required. They aren't. Not by industry standards, not by the Forest Service, not by most states...including states that have gone to the trouble of establishing tramway boards to better regulate the safety of these conveyances. Just some silly nanny states like yours.

If you live in the nanny state long enough, the silliness starts to permeate your character. The only treatment is quick removal to a place where sanity prevails. Perhaps, surrounded by real mountains with tremendous natural hazards, nanny-staters would recognize how bizarre commitment to the idea that this feature provides "safety" is.
Like I said. Prove it. You can't, anymore than I can prove you had whatever for lunch. Brilliant arguement, btw.

Yes, I can see how a bar that you could grab onto if you were somehow slipping out of the seat could fail to provide safety. That's really clear.

I can also see how someone like you might have trouble raising your arm, and then lowering it...perhaps 20 times a day. Exhausting.

I have no idea where you live, nor do I care. I could care less what law my state, or yours, makes about lift bars. I have no problems riding lifts without them either, but if it's there i use it. Until my arm gets too tired.

Edit -- forget it. I just looked at your profile. You're 24. Now I understand.
post #145 of 169
Thanks, I'll sleep better now. Footrests that a little kid can reach might be the same height as the ones Comprex finds torturous. I have long legs, but freeheel bindings allow me to fit any height footrest. Snowboard is heavy on one leg, so I make that fit too. It's probably easier to comfortably balance a snowboard on a footrest than alpine skis. Alpine snowboard is probably the worst.
post #146 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Like I said. Prove it. You can't, anymore than I can prove you had whatever for lunch. Brilliant arguement, btw.
Thanks. For your next trick, please prove that God doesn't exist. Proving a negative...so easy.

I can see that this makes you very emotional. Relax, it's just the intertubes.
post #147 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
To those who say the bar doesn't provide any safety, prove it.
To those of you who think it does contribute to safety, prove it.
post #148 of 169

Comprex' post about Alta #117

What is wrong with this post about safety bars on Alta's Supreme lift?

Here is what is wrong... there are no restraining bars on any Alta lift, so the story cannot have happened there.
post #149 of 169
^^^^
Yeah - plus he's talking about Regulator Johnson. Comp - Supreme is at Alta, Reg Johnson is at Bird.

How do you guys feel about gapers who cut low traverses?
post #150 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan from Pa View Post
What is wrong with this post about safety bars on Alta's Supreme lift?

Here is what is wrong... there are no restraining bars on any Alta lift, so the story cannot have happened there.
Exactly what I was thinking!

I voted never. I have no problem if someone wants to lower it, but I have never felt the need to do it myself.
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