Skiing in The States is Boring.. - Page 5

LOL best troll  cast EVER!

Though to be fair, the best on-mountain food I've had was at Whitewater, which is at least North America...

The only Europeans you meet in North America are the ones who love North America, so of course they're going to spend as much time there as they can. It's just like the Americans (of which I am one) and Canadians you meet in Europe are those that love Europe, so they try to spend a lot of time there. All you're going to get from either group is biased opinions, like asking Trekkies for their opinions about the best TV shows. Not surprizingly, you'll hear all about Star Trek, Stargate, etc.


One notable thing I've found having grown up skiing in CO but having spent the last three winters skiing Europe: in the really good resorts in Europe, you're skiing with the other skiers rather than around them.

When skiing on-piste in the Rockies (Steamboat, Winter Park, Crested Butte, etc.), before I ever started a run, I would always have to wait for everyone to fall over and come to a stop just to make sure they wouldn't clatter into me mid-wipe out. After that, I would ski around them as they gathered up their yard sales. In places like Verbier and Val d'Isere, I don't have to wait for everyone to wipe out before I feel safe starting my run. Most of the people there stick to the runs they are able to handle, rather than going completely out of control down a trail they've got no business skiing on.

Just depends. I've seen a lot of bad skiing on both sides. Perhaps more dangerous in the Alps, since it's more crowded (leaving the eastern US out for the moment) and more likely to be icy.

Also, Europeans are more influenced by racing (this goes for the way people drive too), so tend to equate speed with quality. You see a lot of not-very-good skiers here skiing fast. In Italy, at least, grooming is something of a religion, which only exacerbates the situation.

BTW, best skiers I've ever seen inbounds at a resort: hands-down, Crested Butte.

I don't know. I think groomed runs make those skiers less likely to lose control and wipe out, even though they are going faster. Plus, the groomed surface gives me more line choices and more escape routes (I know I won't hit a snow-covered VW and go flying if I have to take evasive action into an unchecked line to avoid a yard sale).

In CO, I just remember the loads of tourists skiing way out of their depth on ungroomed blacks and double-blacks, traversing the whole width of the slopes and wiping out as they hit some bump or icy patch they couldn't handle. Because of the terrain, there were fewer lines to avoid these people. Hence my practice of waiting for them to crash before getting started myself.

To be fair, I did have to ski CO at peak times because I was still in school, whereas I can easily avoid peak times here. Different crowds at different times; maybe apples and oranges. Hopefully, I won't ever have to experience peak times at a European mega resort.


That said, I do miss the care-free ease of jumping into the trees and such in the Rockies. Too many cliffs, craters, and creek beds in the middle of European resorts to go off-piste without fully scouting out the terrain from top to bottom.

For me, it was Verbier (actually, the entire Four Valleys area). 10-yr olds riding boards and skiing like pros, intermediates skiing under control in their comfort zone rather than testing their imagined abilities.

I remember losing a ski after crossing tips and wiping out, only to have a 10- or 12-yr old girl ski down the same line (though not as fast), pick up my ski, and bring it down to me. Truely humbling.

 Come visit us in Georgia ... once on the top you'll never find the end of the hill :)

check this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW338Bb_WM4

Verbier gets special mention for the sickest tracks I've ever seen. I saw tracks -- didn't witness the descents -- going down stuff that looked f'ing impossible even to get to. Nice tracks, too.

 

There are good skiers, and horrible skiers, at a lot of hills, though.

To me some of the European "home runs" (St Anton and Verbier, in particular) rank as the scariest descents I've ever done. Hundreds of people concentrated on one trail. What a nightmare.

BTW, I totally disagree with the above analysis on groomer safety. Bad skiers just can't pick up the kind of speed they need to become dangerous skiers if, for example, bumps are allowed. to form.

I appreciate the insight from Prickly and WTFH.  I would love to ski Europe someday, not because I believe the skiing will be any better but because it will be a totally different experience than skiing in the states.  My perception is that Whistler has the closest thing to a European feeling experience with their large amount of terrain and great village.  Maybe someday I will make it to the Alps.  For now I can live vicariously through the internet.

Got to do Europe too.  Heard about the wonders and the differences for a lifetime, must go ski them for myself.
-----------------------------------
The Food!
Love to hear the English on snowheads.com complaining about the food in NA.  How in the world would they know the difference? 

The Alps impart a majestic visual effect that exceeds anything I’ve seen in the US, basically because of VERTICALITY: the valleys are lower and the mountain tops are higher. The vertical differences are often 10,000 feet or more. I ski a variety of terrain, but probably my favorite at this stage is the long int-adv run with big vertical and scenic surroundings, for example Chip's Run at Snowbird, UT or Wildcat at Wildcat, NH. The Alps are full of such runs, truly a touron's delight. I enjoyed the cultural differences too; language, food, customs, history. American recreational skiers shouldn't go to the Alps just to pound vertical inside a white room. You can find that, but there is so much more.

Vicarious foto fun:

Les Arcs, France, top of Aguille Rouge run:

 http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1066704374039051892xduJbW

Davos, Switzerland, The Parsenn Run:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2440113510037576164nSHghl

 

St Anton, Austria, The Valluga:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1035459627001033432eSpLHz

 

Jungfrau region of Switzerland, Schilthorn/Piz Gloria:

 http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2488398350043327096IwPbrE

That's only half true, actually. The valleys are lower, but the peaks are not higher, at least not higher than Colorado resorts like Breckenridge or A-Basin.

Let's cut to the chase: the big constraint is visibility. Traveling anywhere to ski is a crapshoot, due to snow, etc. But the Alps adds the whiteout element to a degree not matched in the Rockies. There's just so much more above treeline here (even though the treeline is lower). You can't ski as confidently and aggressively on gray days here as you can in the western US and Canada.

They eat a lot of stinky cheese. 

I wish skiing in Brazil were just as boring as it is in the States...

This is really the best way to deal with whiteout conditions. You can always sense where other skiers are.

I was lucky to miss the biggest crowds in Verbier and St. Anton, always going after the holiday breaks rather than during. But I know what you mean about scary descents, escpecially in St. Anton, where the only route home from certain parts of the mountain is that long, narrow blue that has two really hairy intersections with other slopes. I had to do that run on one ski once after cracking a binding; frightening stuff. I definitely don't recommend trying that.

I understand what you mean about safety groomers. I think the reason I dislike bad skiers on ungroomed trails is that those slopes are usually much narrower. So, even a couple of people who are way out of their depth can block up the whole thing for me (it's challenging enough for me without them there), whereas it takes a lot of bad skiers to block up all the lines for me on a wide groomer.

So I agree that they actually are more dangerous on groomers, but I feel like they are easier to avoid there (probably a false sense of security). They still make me paranoid about slowing down or stopping before I reach the bottom though.

The "home run" thing is a particularly Alpine phenomenon, which goes right to the heart of how resorts in the Alps are set up vs. their NorAm peers. 

Skiing in the Alps grew up from existing towns toward the mountain peaks above. If the best skiing, or snow, was 1500 or 2000 meters higher than the town, lifts (or, in the earliest cases, trains) had to go from town to that level. And naturally, trails all the way back down.

This created some tremendously big verticals, though some of it only marginally fun to ski. Think about Engelberg, Zermatt or St Moritz, where the real skiing ends a good 500 meters (at least) above town level, but still requires a run home back to town. 

I often take the Sunnegga underground lift home at the end of the day at Zermatt, for example, to avoid the windy, icy road back to the resort.

North American resorts were largely built from scratch, so "villages" were built higher, closer to the actual skiing (think about a place like Keystone). Vertical drops are smaller, bases higher. Generally no "home runs," as actual skiing takes place all the way to the base (off the top of my head, I'm thinking about something like High Rustler at Alta, which ends quite near base level if memory serves me well).
Edited by prickly - 10/8/09 at 4:22am

There are some good home runs (Talabfahrt in German), though. Garmisch has two that are classics, and if you like skiing fast, they are by far the best runs in the resort. You just have to ski them when they're not crowded.

The one in Engelberg, on the other hand, is long, flat, and dull.

You certainly right about the vertical figures being distorted by this. The Engelberg website claims its longest run from the top of the Titlis to the village with something like 2000 m vert and 7 km in length. Anybody who's actually been there, however, knows that it is not possible to ski directly from top to bottom, though. Not that it matters; it's just false advertising.

Of course the problem with most of these runs is that at 3:30 they are packed-full of out of control drunks.

It's OK, those are the people who put the "bump" in "bump skiing".

Still going.. best troll thread EVER.  snowblader I salute you.. wherever you are..

Yeah, and did you see that his home hill was like a snow dome somewhere? Ah, whatever, this has been a fun diversion.

The last time I skied Whitewater, I stopped for lunch twice.  
....On a powder day!

But to be fair, there wasn't much competition, especially in the afternoon when most Nelson locals decided they should head back to town and show up for work.

Quote:::>Why do I need to go to Europe? I can read. I know the scene. Late start, ride a slanted train or a rotating tramcar to a four star summit restaurant, long lunch with wine, followed by a sunbath/nap, then the unforgettable ski, yodeling down the eight mile long Kookschpitz in the setting sun, then off to the bar...<<<.

Ooooh, you make me long to go back on a winter VACATION to Lech/St. Anton again!!! You can ski anywhere anytime but if you want to experience a real ski VACATION it's as you describe, fun.

Though I grew up in Europe and think the skiing is great, it is the whole vacation experience is what keeps me going back about every three years, a couple of runs before a two hour lunch on the mountain with crepes prepared just for you and sitting on the Valluga restaurant deck in St. Anton watching the nuts jump off into nowhere whilee sipping your favorite drink is so much fun.

The run from Zuers via the Madloch will give you a workout  that calls for a Gluehwein at one of the sidewalk bars  and a quick nap at your room before preparing for a night of partying.

THAT is a vacation. I can always ski at home or on my annual three week western ski trip but the ambiance there is different, even the partying. So we do much more actual skiing.

....Ott

 Ott, when I skied with you at Seven Springs, I think we made one run before repairing to the summit restaurant. What was that stuff PJ brought? A clear fluid in a glass bottle with a wooden cross submerged in it? Most of us needed beer to wash it down. We were back on the hill by noon.

Ott, you're preaching to the choir, buddy. He is talking about what may be the best all-around ski resort experience in the world. As much as I love skiing in North America -- and I've made myself clear, for pure skiing, I prefer NorAm -- I'm not sure anything ticks as many boxes as the Arlberg.

Forget Gluehwein, take the chair up from Zug!

I don't know about everyone else, but I just love to ski.  Period. 

You know, it's interesting. I think American skiers generally have a very favorable impression of skiing in the Alps. Maybe because they read SKI magazine articles that go like:

We schussed the 7000 meters down to Pret de Champagne in the sun, toasted our day with a fine wine, and were serenaded by our guide Jean-Paul until sundown. We then danced the night away until whisked home by the chalet boys/girls we met at the disco.

European skiers, on the other hand, seem pretty agnostic about the NorAm skiing experience, perhaps because ski magazines here are full of stories like: 

We schussed the 7000 meters down to Pret de Champagne in the sun, toasted our day with a fine wine, and were serenaded by our guide Jean-Paul until sundown. We then danced the night away until whisked home by the chalet boys/girls we met at the disco.

Most Euro types have never heard of the resorts North Americans think of as important...

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.  The mountains are always better on the other side of the pond.

This thread will never die.  Long live snoblader, king of the trolls!

FWIW, the two places that are top of my would most love to ski but haven't list are:

Chamimix
Jackson Hole

Chamomix
Jackson Hole

Ach, that's nothing. The thing would be to ski them both in the same season. Not that I have...

BTW, people ask me all the time: "Prickly, you're a ski God of sorts, and a damned good-looking, dashing, modest devil, who attracts bargirls like flies and still has most of his teeth. What do you think are the two best places to ski in the world, all things considered? And a drink on me just for taking time out of your busy day to answer."

And I tell them St Anton and Jackson Hole, then prattle on about some other forgettable crap, like how everyone needs to buy a copy of Where to Ski and Snowboard, and don't you think Staropramen is the most underrated beer in the world? Then I usually fall asleep for an hour or two before the game starts.