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Strength and conditioning for skiing - Page 2

post #31 of 87
9/26/08 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post
The problem with cycling without other training is that it can create an imbalance between strong quads and weak hamstrings. That puts you at risk for an ACL injury. Cyclists also also tend to develop stiff backs and weak upper bodies, neither of which is good for skiing.

BK
you dont mountain bike do you?

since i started road biking its hard to make my legs tired MTBing, my upper body normally craps out first that normally happen at like 20ish mile at cruising pace.

ACL injury, I am pretty sure my chance are pretty low
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post #32 of 87
9/26/08 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
you dont mountain bike do you?

since i started road biking its hard to make my legs tired MTBing, my upper body normally craps out first that normally happen at like 20ish mile at cruising pace.

ACL injury, I am pretty sure my chance are pretty low
You are right that I haven't done mountain bikes much, but why do you think you are not at risk for an ACL injury?

BK
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post #33 of 87
9/26/08 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skimottaret View Post
BK dont disagree with that and i wasnt implying strength is everything. The strength coach was saying that in the contet of instructors who are trying to pass the Eurotest which is a GS race against pacesetters who are typically ex WC or Europa cup guys and his view was that you wont be as technically gifted as them and if you are not nearly as strong as them you stand no chance.. With strengthtraining being something you can do to help level the playing field.
Actually, the weights you stated seemed pretty reasonable to me, and they don't contradict what I was trying to say. My point was that coaches measure fitness now by how long an athlete can hold the weight, as well as by the maximum weight, and the emphasis changed from maximum to endurance a long time ago

BK
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post #34 of 87
9/26/08 at 8:12am
]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post
When you are doing a 1 leg DL, what do you do with the free leg?

BK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92wjWXU6sH8
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post #35 of 87
9/26/08 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skimottaret View Post
lots of core exercises he thought useless and termed them dying beetles with people laying on their backs thrashing around trying to touchtoes and knees.
This is because most of the exercises termed 'core' have little to do with what needs to be done. It's not about crunches and six packs.
It's about Mid-line stability.Wedding the spine to the pelvis to work as one functional unit. It is the key to unlock athletic movement.
Over-head squats top list for developing mid line stability.
OHS is also the bottom position of the Snatch.
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post #36 of 87
9/26/08 at 9:58am
Two more things. That article I can't retrieved mentioned that alpine skiing involves a lot of co-contraction of opposing muscles. So while a strong lower body, balance, explosiveness are great, and can be improved by exercise, there's no substitute for actual skiing. Those of you blessed to live near snow (not me, unfortunately) can get the right muscle combos firing well just by skiing. LUCKY YOU!

Also, a trainer told me that hip muscles (or the smaller muscles around the glutes) help stabilize your knees. So, using a resistence band around the ankles, and doing sumo type squats (not deep) while you sidestep is another good one.

Question for Lobo (or anyone else who does free weights) -- when using a squat machine (cables and a stack of weights), I'm usually at 120 pounds and can do 140 with lower reps. I can't see that the smith machine will do much more in terms of balance and core. Would it be reasonable to try squats with just the 55 lb bar?

Thanks.

DEP
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post #37 of 87
9/26/08 at 10:08am
Here's the Beachbody video Tony Horton told me about - Power 90 Master series plyo/legs. I plan to do this once I'm done with my current round of P90X.

P90 Master Series Plyo Legs An explosive lower-body workout with Tony's breakthrough plyometric moves to strengthen, sculpt, and shape your legs, hips, and glutes. (49 minutes)

Here's a direct link to the store. If that doesn't work, go here and click on the shop for products button. It's under Power 90/P90x tab.
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post #38 of 87
9/26/08 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEP View Post
Two more things. That article I can't retrieved mentioned that alpine skiing involves a lot of co-contraction of opposing muscles. So while a strong lower body, balance, explosiveness are great, and can be improved by exercise, there's no substitute for actual skiing. Those of you blessed to live near snow (not me, unfortunately) can get the right muscle combos firing well just by skiing. LUCKY YOU!

Also, a trainer told me that hip muscles (or the smaller muscles around the glutes) help stabilize your knees. So, using a resistence band around the ankles, and doing sumo type squats (not deep) while you sidestep is another good one.

Question for Lobo (or anyone else who does free weights) -- when using a squat machine (cables and a stack of weights), I'm usually at 120 pounds and can do 140 with lower reps. I can't see that the smith machine will do much more in terms of balance and core. Would it be reasonable to try squats with just the 55 lb bar?

Thanks.

DEP
You really should make the transition to free squats.
You will need to start with just air squats ,no weight. Make sure your technique is sound before adding a bar.
Here is a quick how to/check list

How to Squat
Here are some valuable cues to a sound squat.
1. Start with the feet about shoulder width apart and slightly toed out.
2. Keep your head up looking slightly above parallel.
3. Don’t look down at all; ground is in peripheral vision only.
4. Accentuate the normal arch of the lumbar curve and then pull the excess
arch out with the abs.
5. Keep the midsection very tight.
6. Send your butt back and down.
7. Your knees track over the line of the foot.
8. Don’t let the knees roll inside the foot.
9. Keep as much pressure on the heels as possible.
10. Stay off of the balls of the feet.
11. Delay the knees forward travel as much as possible.
12. Lift your arms out and up as you descend.
13. Keep your torso elongated.
14. Send hands as far away from your butt as possible.
15. In profile, the ear does not move forward during the squat, it travels
straight down.
16. Don’t let the squat just sink, but pull yourself down with your hip flexors.
17. Don’t let the lumbar curve surrender as you settle in to the bottom.
18. Stop when the fold of the hip is below the knee – break parallel with the
thigh.
19. Squeeze glutes and hamstrings and rise without any leaning forward or
shifting of balance.
20. Return on the exact same path as you descended.
21. Use every bit of musculature you can; there is no part of the body
uninvolved.
22. On rising, without moving the feet, exert pressure to the outside of your
feet as though you were trying to separate the ground beneath you.
23. At the top of the stroke stand as tall as you possibly can.
2
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post #39 of 87
10/2/08 at 12:39pm
I thought I had a good routine at the gym for the last 8 years. It was given to me by a former coach of the National ski team Can't remember his name. Then my son talked me into trying crossfit. I took some initial traing sessions from Eva Twardokens. Her opinion was that all the machines in the world are not going to cut it. Another fellow to look into is Mark Rippitoe a serious strenght coach with numerous books. Since switching to Crossfit my strength and flexibiltiy have shown huge improvments. They do not like the low fat high carb type of diet. I changed to their Zone Diet and lost 45lbs. Their results are tough to ignore.
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post #40 of 87
10/2/08 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyof View Post
I thought I had a good routine at the gym for the last 8 years. It was given to me by a former coach of the National ski team Can't remember his name. Then my son talked me into trying crossfit. I took some initial traing sessions from Eva Twardokens. Her opinion was that all the machines in the world are not going to cut it. Another fellow to look into is Mark Rippitoe a serious strenght coach with numerous books. Since switching to Crossfit my strength and flexibiltiy have shown huge improvments. They do not like the low fat high carb type of diet. I changed to their Zone Diet and lost 45lbs. Their results are tough to ignore.
Congrats on your weight loss! I can certainley relate to these comments.After years of traditional bodybuiding I discovered Crossfit.It is amazing what you can bring yourself to do in the span of 20 to 30 minutes.While I like the metcon wod's I still like the basic strength days.Love training heavy!!

Another note I follow a very loose zone type diet.I still like sweet potatoes,rice and of course my coronas!

Terry
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post #41 of 87
10/2/08 at 3:54pm
Problem with the heavy training only I was doing is I got hurt, which is easy to do.

I switched over to P90x. Lost 35 pounds in 90 days. I'm a believer!

Here's my transformation thread.
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post #42 of 87
10/2/08 at 4:31pm

My current conditioning

Running - Lower body development and endurance. Twice weekly.

Biking - Lower body development and endurance. 3x weekly.

Gymnastics - Develops air-sense, explosive power, and range of motion. Good for park and cliff-hucking. Twice weekly.

Skier's Edge Big Mountain Machine - I train with ski boots and wrist weights (to simulate the leveraging effect of the ski poles). This effectively coordinate the muscles for carving. Every day.

The downside to this program is that it is so time consuming that I have to base my lifestyle around it...
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post #43 of 87
10/2/08 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyof View Post
They do not like the low fat high carb type of diet. I changed to their Zone Diet and lost 45lbs. Their results are tough to ignore.
Not just the Zone,but Paleo/Zone.
Paleo for the right types of food,Zone for the right portions at the right time.
True Zone also has a bit to many carbs.
Although if your doing a chipper or something that takes a long time you will need to replace some glycogen.
Sweet Potatoes are great for that.
Looks like we're getting a few Crossfitter's here that's great
Just remember,It's not a cult
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post #44 of 87
10/2/08 at 5:32pm
A question for those here who do CrossFit.
Do you ,or your Affiliate follow the main page WOD or do you do your own thing?
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post #45 of 87
10/3/08 at 3:18am
We typically follow the main page.Jason will scale the workouts for those who have limitations.Everyone gets a kick-ass w/o!

I have not yet graduated to 3 on 1 off.Right now I am doing 4 days of CF and then I run on the others.

T
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post #46 of 87
10/3/08 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcarey View Post
We typically follow the main page.Jason will scale the workouts for those who have limitations.Everyone gets a kick-ass w/o!

I have not yet graduated to 3 on 1 off.Right now I am doing 4 days of CF and then I run on the others.

T
3 on1 off is tough to maintain for us old guys.
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post #47 of 87
10/3/08 at 7:42am
tcarey is relatively new to CF. It takes time and conditioning to attain the training level that Lobo is talking about. For example, swimmers train everyday, even double sessions. Their trainning is rigorous but does not stress the muscles like weights and the exercizes that CF uses. Running is similar though more stressful, lots of runners will run daily ie 5 days a week.

You have to be in shape to do Helen on the clock and turn in a performance. Your best training results will come once you are in shape. You can take more punishment in return for conditioning.

An example might be those kip chins that CF is famous for. If I can only do 5 x 3 vs 20 x 3 when I'm in shape the difference in results will be noticeable. There is a point where you cross a threshold and your trainning kicks in.
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post #48 of 87
10/3/08 at 10:07am
[quote=Paul Jones;966055] Running is similar though more stressful, lots of runners will run daily ie 5 days a week.


quote]
Take a look at this.
Might save some of those 5 day a wk runners from a slow and agonizing death.


http://www.theiflife.com/2008/10/02/...eping-you-fat/
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post #49 of 87
10/3/08 at 2:36pm
Your right Paul I am new to CF so I am listening to my body.I could easily find myself doing this on a daily basis.However you need to take the recovery time so you can come back and exceed.I used to run alot of milage but I have scaled that way back.Nutrition is the key that unlocks the door to ridding unwanted bodyfat.

While I am not in the best shape of my life I have certainly found a mor efficient way to get there!

I have always been intersted in the P90x glad to see you have had so much success!! Keep it up!

Terry
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post #50 of 87
10/4/08 at 1:33pm

hamstrings on the bike

if you use cleats and ride out of the saddle a lot you will get your hamstrings as much or more than your quads. or try single speed.

also, p90x is sometimes available at my favorite store the pirate bay et al
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post #51 of 87
10/5/08 at 2:00pm
Loboskis,

I've been starting squats with no weight -- now part of my warm-up along with variations of walking lunges. Your guidelines are GREAT, and the straight-legged dead lifts and freemotion squat machine that been part of my routine are totally consistent with good form doing "air squats". But a question: when I go low, my arms go straight out in front to maintain balance (like DB raises for front delts). Is this okay, or will this make it hard to transition to squatting with a bar across the back of shoulders?

Duke, what is p90x?

Thanks!

DEP
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post #52 of 87
10/5/08 at 2:28pm
P90X

It's a fairly intense exercise program designed for home use. Not as hard core as Cross Fit but you don't need an Olympic weight set and a garage gym to use it either. Sort of a Cross Fit light
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post #53 of 87
10/5/08 at 6:26pm
Here's a woman from CrossFit doing Over Head Squats using her body weight. FKNA. I use the bar plus 20# on a good day

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...leBWx15OHS.wmv
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post #54 of 87
10/5/08 at 9:59pm
I've taken to doing lots of snatch-grip (wide grip) deadlifts and one-legged squats as deep as possible. I'm not doing overhead squats because of wrist issues from doing overhead squats.

Anyway, hip flexibility and strength is very important, especially in skiing because you can't use your foot as much to balance. Lifting and squatting in a deep position (if your knees can take it), and doing one-legged work is beneficial for this. Along with some leg raises like DoWork was saying, it's hard to do much better for core strength.

You definitely have to work up to getting the range of motion, though.
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post #55 of 87
10/6/08 at 3:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEP View Post
Loboskis,

I've been starting squats with no weight -- now part of my warm-up along with variations of walking lunges. Your guidelines are GREAT, and the straight-legged dead lifts and freemotion squat machine that been part of my routine are totally consistent with good form doing "air squats". But a question: when I go low, my arms go straight out in front to maintain balance (like DB raises for front delts). Is this okay, or will this make it hard to transition to squatting with a bar across the back of shoulders?

Duke, what is p90x?

Thanks!

DEP
Yes ,Your hands in front is fine. As flexibility increases, you should get you arms straight over head with your air squat.
Then the ultimate test for flexibility would be feet together ,arms overhead ,vertical torso,in a full squat.
Not that you would do your normal squatting in that position,but a great test for flexibility in your shoulders hips,ankles.
And keep hitting those walking lunges,great training tool.
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post #56 of 87
10/6/08 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassnowboarder View Post
. Along with some leg raises like DoWork was saying, it's hard to do much better for core strength.

You definitely have to work up to getting the range of motion, though.
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html
Scroll down to 'Knees to Elbows Demo' for the CrossFit version of those leg raises and there variations
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post #57 of 87
10/6/08 at 7:09am
Couple thoughts...

#1 Not much here on roller blades / hockey.

#2 Try this. Instead of hitting the lazy boy when watching the tube, try sitting on the Bosu ball. Good Stuff.

#3. Ditto for the balance board. Want an added challange? Toss a tennis ball off the wall above the TV. Alternate hands. Throwing with your off hand is a silly challenge! I you are a racer, try dropping into a tuck and holding it for 60 seconds on the balance board.
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post #58 of 87
10/6/08 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html
Scroll down to 'Knees to Elbows Demo' for the CrossFit version of those leg raises and there variations

I liked that video! I do as many as I can with straight legs and bend my knees to get more reps in. I might try some bent knee raises with ankle weights, and I need to add the wiper and mogul variations.

I forgot about lunges, I just started doing them recently.
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post #59 of 87
10/6/08 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wassnowboarder View Post
I liked that video! I do as many as I can with straight legs and bend my knees to get more reps in. I might try some bent knee raises with ankle weights, and I need to add the wiper and mogul variations.

I forgot about lunges, I just started doing them recently.
I do knees to elbows, not well though
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post #60 of 87
10/6/08 at 10:26pm
Leg raises are difficult. I haven't tried knees to elbows, but I am finally getting to where I can touch my feet to the bar on the straight raises, at least for a few. Today I did 4 sets of 8 straight raises, with the final ones getting just above parallel to the ground.
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