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Intuition, analysis, mastery

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
When building mastery at any level in skiing, how do you see the roles of intuition and analysis? These two processes seem to be at odds with each other. Do you find them both to be indispensable in the learning process, or is one more important than the other?
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
When building mastery at any level in skiing, how do you see the roles of intuition and analysis? These two processes seem to be at odds with each other. Do you find them both to be indispensable in the learning process, or is one more important than the other?
i ll say analysis is more important for learning. But there are two types of analysis. Analysis made by the skier himself or analysis made by experts. Intuition is one level up but less important because when you r not there you wont be able to get it anyway. You probably have to be crystal clear before you can get your intuition right?
post #3 of 14
Interesting comparison liquidfeet, my initial thought was one is the touchy feely experiential learner while the other is the thinker talker. I will put my money on the intuitive person every time to be the one who succeeds sooner. A person who is athletic and has done many sports or is very proficient in one particular balance sport will intuitively do what they need to do to balance most efficiently, I would think.

I can give multiple examples, but here is just one. I had a one hour private years ago with a world famous prima ballerina who had never skied but wanted to learn. Long story short, in one hour she was making parallel turns with a pole plant on beginner terrain!!!! I did not teach her anything, I merely said watch me try this and we went through the whole milestone progression in one hour. Her body knew intuitively how to balance and her total body awareness and coordination was amazing. If we would have stood around analyzing the skiing mechanics where would we be?
post #4 of 14
Enhanced feel/intuition is gained from experience and practice; it becomes "natural".
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
I can give multiple examples, but here is just one. I had a one hour private years ago with a world famous prima ballerina who had never skied but wanted to learn. Long story short, in one hour she was making parallel turns with a pole plant on beginner terrain!!!! I did not teach her anything, I merely said watch me try this and we went through the whole milestone progression in one hour. Her body knew intuitively how to balance and her total body awareness and coordination was amazing. If we would have stood around analyzing the skiing mechanics where would we be?
Well, I ain't no prima ballerina, but that's pretty much how I learned. Never skied until college. Friends took me to the top of the hill and let me go. By the middle of the second run I was making reasonable parallel turns, and by the end of the day I was skiing with the rest of the (probalby not very experienced) group. Long long time ago.

Call it intuition if you want. For me it's more visualization. I knew for a week I was going skiing, and I visualized the movements and internalized them. This is how I learn most activities I do -- watch, visualize internally, then do. Usually works, as long as you have a good example to visualize.

Edit to add that when something doesn'tn feel right, I visualize that too, so I can see in my head what I"m doing wrong. I don't th ink everyone learns this way, but it's alway been the way I learn.
post #6 of 14
As coaches, we provide the task, and the skiers mind/body have to discover internally how to make it happen. The discovery process will be different for everyone. We coaches can only provide little hints for the mental side of the equation to help the students body self-discover the solution.

In Bud's example, his job was easy. That's not the norm. But what is the norm is that if you focus on leading the student to developing foundation skiing skills, that ability to spontaneously duplicate any demonstrated technical variation becomes similar to what Bud saw demonstrated. She came with foundation balance skills not even directly related skiing, and see what they did for her. When the skill base becomes ski specific, it's even more impressive.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Well, I ain't no prima ballerina, but that's pretty much how I learned. Never skied until college. Friends took me to the top of the hill and let me go. By the middle of the second run I was making reasonable parallel turns, and by the end of the day I was skiing with the rest of the (probalby not very experienced) group. Long long time ago.

Call it intuition if you want. For me it's more visualization. I knew for a week I was going skiing, and I visualized the movements and internalized them. This is how I learn most activities I do -- watch, visualize internally, then do. Usually works, as long as you have a good example to visualize.

Edit to add that when something doesn'tn feel right, I visualize that too, so I can see in my head what I"m doing wrong. I don't th ink everyone learns this way, but it's alway been the way I learn.

Who knows? you could've been a great ballerina if you applied yourself!!
post #8 of 14
It's a cycle. Do without thinking, think, do while thinking until thinking becomes unnecessary, Do without thinking, think, do while thinking becomes unnecessary.

Intuition improves with practice. Thoughtful practice makes the motions good, but typically motion cannot flow freely when it is encumbered by thought.

After enough cycles you can start breaking the rules and thoughtful action and thoughtless motion are equally at your disposal.

The things you do by intuition improve the most when they have benefited from thoughtful analysis and more practice.
post #9 of 14
Great post Ghost!
post #10 of 14
unconscious incompetence
conscious incompetence
conscious competence
unconscious competence

Or Goethe...

"Once one knows what really matters, one ceases to be voluble. And what does really matter? That is easy: thinking and doing, doing and thinking---and these are the sum of all wisdom...Both must move ever onward in life, to and fro, like breathing in and breathing out."
post #11 of 14
ditto Matt!
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
unconscious incompetence
conscious incompetence
conscious competence
unconscious competence
!!
post #13 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
unconscious incompetence
conscious incompetence
conscious competence
unconscious competence
"
You forgot, repeat ad infinitum
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

unconscious incompetence
conscious incompetence
conscious competence
unconscious competence
"

You forgot, repeat ad infinitum
Right! Or life would get boring.
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