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# FIS Point Question

I saw in the post from +mike+ on FIS rule changes. He stated that a kid he coaches has FIS points in the mid-200's indicating by Mike's note that this means the kid is good.

I'm curious to know what the current standard is today. I raced back in the early 80's. After I quit, I never thought of FIS points again. I know a lot has changed, so help satisfy my curiosity. What does a good racer's FIS points look like today? I'm not talking US team level or World Cup, but rather what you might expect a strong junior racer (15-19 years old) on their way up.

For reference my FIS points were something like: DH - 75, GS 90, Slalom 102. Give or take a few (it's been a long time). I was a top 10 - 20 finisher in most GSs and SLs and top 5-10 in most DHs. The guys around me who went to the US Dev. and B teams had points in the 40's.

In relation to the points, how have things changed?
First, you must be a great skier with your results. At my best I had my points in the 90's in GS about 12 years ago.

The name of the game is still to get your points as low as possible. As a refernce, in WC sl last year, Ivica Kostelic finished the season in first place with 0.00 points. Bode was second with .56 and the top 10 are all below 4 points. One of my kids started the season in the 90's and fished with about 70 points, good for a rank of about 1200. Very impressive.

This should make things crystal clear for you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Calculation
- The FIS points or the maximum value of the best five classified competitors
ranking amongst the top ten of the race concerned (= sum A), and the best five
competitors who started in the FIS points ranking (= sum B) are added. Now the
race points of the best five classified competitors are added (= sum C). No race
points will be calculated which are higher than the maximum of the
corresponding competition (310, 145, 200, 250).
- Now the sum of the race points will be subtracted from the sum of the FIS points
of the best five classified and the best five competitors who started. The
resulting figure shall then be divided by ten (sum A + sum B – sum C:10)
- At the end of each penalty calculation, the correction value according to Art
4.3.2 must be taken into account. Note: If the "z" value is positive the absolute
value is subtracted, and if negative then it is added. This ensures that all results
can be compared to each other from list to list.

The details of such calculations are best left to those with pocket protectors and slide rules.
Thanks Mike this helps. I posted the question because I suspected that the level of competition had increased significantly over the past 20 or so years (as one would hope).

To put things in perspective, the DH points I had put me in the top 70 in the US, GS right around 100, SL around 120. This is US rankings, not world. Based on your guy's ranking, my original thought was confirmed. Competition is much fiercer now than it was in the early 80s.

Thanks.

[ September 25, 2002, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Bullet ]
I checked points from a couple people I know.
A USST development team skier DH/SL/GS/SG 112/34/36/51
A top junior olympian J1 slalom skier DH/SL/GS/SG 207/71/87/119
All the point results are online at http://internal.ussa.org/aps/public/...eteHistory.asp
Bullet and Mike have just been officially removed from my Epicski list of people to race against.
I don't like losing by as much as I'd probably lose against them.
Over the years the FIS keeps fiddling with the formula but the baseline stays pretty close. 70s are still pretty good for a regional FIS racer. 200 is a pretty good entry level, most of my kids usually start around there when they get into the Mid-Ams.
Just out of curiosity, how do FIS points compare to USSA points? Are there 'convergence points' that generally apply? (e.g. would 100 USSA points in a discipline generally translate to 200 or 300 FIS points?)
FIS and ussa points are calculated the exact same way. Usually when a racer is just getting involved in racing, their FIS points are higher because they race in a fewer number of FIS events, and when they do, get a horrible start position. If you look at the points of anyone who starts top 15 at mid-ams, I would bet that their national and FIS points are about the same.
Bullet, as far as the level of competition, it's frickin' brutal! I wondered the same thing as you and I wanted to gauge myself against today's hot kids. We race in an adult race league every week on our FIS hill and its a pretty legitimate GS. There are two guys in the league who race ussa. I'm real close to both of them and can beat them on any given day. They both have GS points in the 80's.... I looked up their national ranking....... in the 500's. Unbelieveable.
By the way, its a really competitive league, we wax, strip down, the whole works. Not an exact science, but it gives me an idea.
Quote:
 Originally posted by U.P. Racer:FIS and ussa points are calculated the exact same way. Usually when a racer is just getting involved in racing, their FIS points are higher because they race in a fewer number of FIS events, and when they do, get a horrible start position. If you look at the points of anyone who starts top 15 at mid-ams, I would bet that their national and FIS points are about the same.
That's interesting. I always assumed FIS points were more difficult to get (or get rid of, actually) just because all the racers I knew were concentrating on USSA points. Thanks.
You have to qualify for FIS events by lowering your national(ussa) points. Any FIS event has a point cutoff - if your points are too high, you don't qualify for the event. When you qualify for your first FIS event, your FIS points will be 990.00, since you don't have any FIS results yet. Therefore, your start position will be at the back of the pack.
As of the end of last year...

With USSA Points:

With 102.04 points in DH you are ranked 100 (all ages, all regions)
With 45.93 in GS points you are ranked 100
With 42.63 in SL points you are ranked 100

=============

With 26.16 FIS points you are ranked 98 in the world and 7th in US

With 17.10 FIS points you are ranked 86 in the world and 10th in the US

With 17.4 FIS points you are ranked 97 in the world and 8th in the US.

[ October 02, 2002, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: WVSkier ]
I think you meant with your points at 102 you would be ranked 1000? Not 100.
At the begining of each season USSA points are "zeroed" to generally bring them in line with FIS. The "0" racer usually ends up with negative points and that much is added to everyone to bring bring them up to "0".
Around the mid-80s the formula that involves your time off the winner was changed to linear instead of log. This had the effect of increasing everyone’s points. But then around the mid-90s the formula that involves the penalty was changed to incorporate the points of top-seeded racers who started yet didn’t finish in the top 10 (or at all). This tended to lower lower points. Then almost every year they fiddle with the discipline-specific multiplier, but that just seems to go up and down over time with no clear trend (or at least not clear to me).
During the first season after implementing the change to account for the best skiers at the start, a friend of mine went back and recalculated the penalty for several races from the previous season. As I recall, he found that the new method only lowered the penalty 2 to 5 points. (He did not have much to do that year).
Although I do have a spreadsheet to calculate penalties, I never thought of doing before/after comparisons. But that sounds about right.
UP Racer
Quote:
 think you meant with your points at 102 you would be ranked 1000? Not 100.
See my edit. I neglected to put in which disciplines. With 102 pts in downhill you are indeed ranked 100th in the US. It's by far the toughest category to get good points.
Ohhhh, now I get it. Sorry.
I just brought this up again to "highlight" it for ed green.
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