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Do you give people a head's up when you lower the foot rest? - Page 2

post #31 of 61
Don't worry about the Chicken Bar SCSA. Watch out for the guy in the Green Logger pants. All this time I thought it was like all about me. Damn Vortex.
post #32 of 61
I always use the bar. I can't say that I ask, I just say "Watch out, here comes the bar". But I certainly do make sure everyone's ready before it actually comes down.

Guess that comes from skiing with the kids. I also learned late in life, so I can remember those first chair rides! I'm cool now, but early on, it was quite an adjustment. I can still remember stiffening up and grabbing on when the chair stopped suddenly.
post #33 of 61
I don't have a problem using the bar I just don't, on alot of chairs the foot rest is to short so it is not comfortable to use for me. However, I would never tell some one they could not use it. People that bring the bar down with out warning are MORONS I would say that most people in Colorado do NOT use the bar but I ticks me off when some one brings it down with out warning and hits me on the head with the bar. I am much nicer when some one appologizes when they do it and just ask them to give warning next time but I usually have a few choice words for the MORONS who do not appologize.
post #34 of 61
i'm not anti-safety bar, but i've never heard this much talk about the importance of them before.

do people regularly fall out of chairs? are children or people with shorter statures more likely to fall?

i have no trouble seeing how the bar could provide psychological security, but i have difficulty imagining a situation where i would fall out.

what would be the various cases when one could fall out of the chair where the bar could have prevented it?
post #35 of 61
Most safety bars on lifts in CA don't have foot rests and very few people use them. But it makes me uncomfortable when I see small kids on the lift with no bar in front of them. They can't even sit back all the way because their legs are too short. Speaking of psychological security, I used to ski with a friend who was a certified instructor, good skier... and at times afraid of heights. He just felt better with it down. Only had one 'dork' yank the bar down on my head, and he got an ear full.
post #36 of 61
skiing in colorado you never know who wants to use the bar it seems a lot of people don't,I always do if my kids are on the chair but otherwise I go with the flow unless I want to rest my legs & loosen my boots & move my feet to help them keep warm,but pretty much everyone who does want it down ask if anyone else minds & I don't remember anyone ever objecting to its use. bteddy
post #37 of 61
I can't believe that at least 3 of you said that the bars are required to be used at your local mountain. This seem absurd to me. HOWEVER, last year I had a friend fall right off the chair when not paying attention. I think the lift slowed and he slid forward. We were on a small lift at right at the top, so he fell only about 7 ft down into powder just before the top.

I rarely use the bar, but hate that they often make them too low for taller people. My knees cannot always fit under the bar, or they are pressing hard into my leg.

Runs in the midwest are too short to get tired on, so when I am all alone I try doing "wall sits" using the bar and the back rest. I hold it as long as I can on the way up and then practice skiing tired on the way down. Good conditioning if you stay safe.
post #38 of 61
OK, so this is the bi-monthly bar debate!

In Europe, where lift passes are less expensive, and litigation isn't a way of life, bars are a requirement, and in some places there is a liftie in place to bring the bar down.

If you have a problem with being hit on the head, then the solution is for you to be the one to bring the bar down!

Take some responsibility for your problem!

How many thimes do I have to say that. We seem very quick to blame others, and very slow to find a solution to our problems within ourselves.
Calling someone a dork, because they are doing what they see as right, and they see you as some weirdo not interested in safety, solves nothing! But those comments of mine don't help with the problem.

So, I get round it this way. I get on the lift, and reach up to the bar. If someone goes to bring it down, then I'll feel the movement in my hand before my head, alternatively, if no one has moved it, I will ask them if they want the bar down.

As for it restricting your movement, unles you ride up in the aircraft "brace" position, i.e. with your head jammed between your legs, there is plenty of room to lean as far forward as you want, and, in general you have somewhere to rest your legs. It's not like the bar in a rollercoaster, it is designed to give you plenty of room for movement.

But, go on ahead, blame everyone else, and do nothing about it yourself, apart from stirring up strife here!


S

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 13, 2002 01:37 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Wear the fox hat ? ]</font>
post #39 of 61
The foot bar, leg rest, run extender, wussy bar, whatever you want to call it, as soon as the chair is away from the loading point I grab the bar, but hold it and the ask politly, if we can lower it.

I see no point in waiting to see what will happen, I grab it first and then we can talk about it. Never had a problem since.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 13, 2002 06:19 AM: Message edited 1 time, by wink ]</font>
post #40 of 61
Just don't be too quick putting it down please!!! if one of the riders is carrying a rake ( with very long handle) and a shovel. I was course crew for a race and before I knew it the bar was coming down. Just a "coming down" is not enough time. I ended up wacking the lady in the head with the rake handle. Well sorry, well sort of but use some comman sense. She was much safer with the bar up!!!
post #41 of 61
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the replys, its always interesting to see something you are so familiar with looked at differently in different areas of the country. This must be a "West" thing based on the answers. We just never really even think about putting the bar down, most of the time we are hanging off the edge of the seat fantasizing about jumping off the lift on to the run below the lift that for some reason always seems to have 2 feet of un-skied powder covering it. If you ski in Colorado you probably know exactly what I'm getting at. I've never thought of the bar as a saftey device, just something some people like to lower, and something you have to raise when you are about to get off. I can't imagine ever falling off the lift, but I'm sure it happens. Personally I would just like a little common curtesy from someone sharing the lift with you and people realizing that lowering the bar is an option for some of us and not your God given right just because you bought a lift ticket. A little politeness goes a long way in life and is appreciated more and more since there seems to be so little of it left.

SCSA - Let me know what the dues are for the new club, I know a half dozen people who want to join.

Now, how about Europeans who pretend to not know the meaning of the word "alternate" in lift lines?
post #42 of 61
OK, so as a European, I'll jump in here.

For fellow Europeans who prefer English, we're talking about lift queues.

As I can see it, it all boils down to the Great War, and then the Second World War. Basically, you protect the land around you as carefully as possible, or the Krauts will invade, and take your space, so if you find a gap in the queue, occupy it before Gerry invades!

Corporal Jones: "They can't abide the cold steel, sir! no, sir! They don't like it up 'em"


What is more interesting is the English take part in these lift queue scrums, yet they are well known to queue for anything. e.g. at a supermarket if there are two check-outs open, and one has three people at it, the other has none, the English will join the queue with 3 in it, and leave the other till empty.

End of xenophobic rant.

S
post #43 of 61
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wear the fox hat ?:
OK, so as a European, I'll jump in here.

For fellow Europeans who prefer English, we're talking about lift queues.

As I can see it, it all boils down to the Great War, and then the Second World War. Basically, you protect the land around you as carefully as possible, or the Krauts will invade, and take your space, so if you find a gap in the queue, occupy it before Gerry invades!

Corporal Jones: "They can't abide the cold steel, sir! no, sir! They don't like it up 'em"


What is more interesting is the English take part in these lift queue scrums, yet they are well known to queue for anything. e.g. at a supermarket if there are two check-outs open, and one has three people at it, the other has none, the English will join the queue with 3 in it, and leave the other till empty.

End of xenophobic rant.

S
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or, you can be like the Irish and stay nuetral.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 13, 2002 09:36 AM: Message edited 1 time, by irul&ublo ]</font>
post #44 of 61
Austrian children are the ones you have to be careful of in lift queues.

The only stranger who's ever struck up a conversation with me on a lift was American.

I have never knowingly met an Irish person while skiing. Is Fox the only one?
post #45 of 61
Do you think that two pages is enough to completely cover this topic?
post #46 of 61
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by powderhound:
I've never thought of the bar as a saftey device,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting that you've never thought of it as a safety device. There were very few bars on chairs in Colorado before a lift accident at Keystone in the late '70s severly injured several people and killed a few. The bullwheel broke off at the top of a chair. The resulting "snap" of the cable threw people out of the chair, not at the bottom of the oscillation but like a slingshot as they became weightless at the top of a 75 foot oscillation. There were several similar accidents about the same time (although one I personally witnessed was negligence on the part of a couple of lift operators). Prior to that I had never thought of the bar as a safety device and didn't really care about putting the bar down until I had kids to ski with.

I don't want to start any flames but I fail to understand the logic of people who say they'll never fall off a chair. "Accidents" are not what we plan for but the unexpected.
post #47 of 61
Queue? Italians do not queue. We fight our own way to the gate, and then to the chair. With teeth and nails.
Personally, I hate it. But I do participate, this or I'll spend the whole skiing day waiting at the bottom.
post #48 of 61
Thread Starter 
PowderJunkie,

I've never thought about it that way, I've never really thought about a lift accident and what it might do to your chair. Maybe that bar might be a good idea after all?
post #49 of 61
I always sing out, and have been known to chastise fellow riders that don't. I've heard the klunk on my helmet one too many times. If I'm perceived as rude, so what? It may save a youngster or oldster from a real headache!

TS
post #50 of 61
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frances:
I have never knowingly met an Irish person while skiing. Is Fox the only one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frances, you haven't lived until you've skied with us, eaten with us, got drunk with us, and then woken up the next morning hoping never to meet any Irish people skiing again.

There are a few skiers in Ireland, but cause we're such a small country, you're not that likely to meet us on the slopes.

Tell you what, let's have a trip to the London snowdome when it opens!


S
post #51 of 61
I do believe that the bar is indeed a safety device- and people do fall off chairs, especially kids. Last week I anesthetized a boy for orthopedic surgery who fell an estimated 40 feet off a chair; he sustained multiple long bone fractures, a splenic injury, and a closed head injury which would have been much, much wiorse had he not been wearing his helmet. I have an aquaintance who's son fell off a lift at Park City a few years ago- his injuries were limited to a femur fracture. Neither were using the bar. A number of years ago there was a death at Crystal Mt (WA) of an adult who fell off the chair; it was thought that he had a seizure, which caused him to fall; his death was attributed to the fall, not the seizure or whatever precipitated it.
post #52 of 61
dp,

that sounded like a plaintiff lawyer's closing argument

if I were defending the ski area, here's what I would say --

"Ladies and gentlemen, White Peak did all it could to assist these poor folks. It had safety bars on the chairs. It has lift operators helping folks load onto the chairs. When a skier or boarder loads onto the chair and then commits horseplay or basic carelessness, resulting in a fall from the chair, that is not White Peak's fault.

"The safety bar's presence, use or misuse is not what caused these injuries. Rather, it was the carelessness of those who fell from the chairs and were injured. Skiing is a high-risk activity. Carelessness often results in injuries. If we sanitize skiing to the point that injuries cannot occur, it will cease to be enjoyable.

"Do not blame White Peak for these unfortunate injuries. Look at what really happened here. Then draw your own conclusion, based upon personal responsibility. Thank you."



<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 03:27 PM: Message edited 1 time, by gonzostrike ]</font>
post #53 of 61
Here at Mammoth it is officially the "restraining bar" not the "safety bar" and just about everyone ignores it. This is because it never gets windy in Mammoth. Curiously enough, children's group lessons are not supposed to normally use the bar. The reason for this is that it was made for adults, not kids, and if you put it down, the kids slide forward to handg on to it, are much more likely to slide under it forward. We would rather teach them to sit all the way back. Also, smaller kids can fall off trying to pull it down. We have to retrain all of our Aussie instructors, as they have to use the bar with kids.

Acouple of years ago, there were some locals that found it amusing to pull the bar down behind them when they got off. No one at the bottom expects the bar to be down as it comes around, and people would get pushed into the pit befor the lifties could figure out what was going on.

Recently, I got to train a bunch of English blokes on a 7-12 week instructor's course. One of the first things I had to teach them was not to put the bar down. Gotta act cool.
post #54 of 61
Very interesting this.
If you get on a chairlift in Europe and don't cooperate in pulling the bar down, your fellow passengers will be very disconcerted.
Probably we need a UN conference on this.
post #55 of 61
OK, after five days' of intensive, hands-on research into this matter I return from Switzerland to ask only this:

What are you guys who keep getting bashed on the head DOING when the bar comes down?
post #56 of 61
...thinking of the lawsuit for being hit by a safety device.

(a bit like suing for injuries caused by a seatbelt)


S


(duck - I can feel the flames from here)
post #57 of 61
I got hit in the head on Friday by a bar being pulled down too quickly. We had barely started to move and my feet were still on the ground. It was my first run of the day, I hadn't fastened my helmet because I planned to make a call from the top of the lift and I can't hear the phone that well through my helment. (The top is the only place the phone works) The bar caught my goggles and pulled my helmet off, fortunately, I was able to grab it before it fell to the ground. If I had warning that the bar was coming down, I would have been sitting so that the bar could not hit me. Fortunately, this bar did not have a foot rest.
post #58 of 61
I love it when somebody about to pull the bar down says, "Watch your head!"

Have you ever tried to watch your own head?
post #59 of 61
Matteo. I love the Euro lift lines. It's the heat of the combat that makes the day so much fun!
post #60 of 61
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scotski:
What are you guys who keep getting bashed on the head DOING when the bar comes down?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sitting there.
What the hell are you doing?
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