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So I went to the ski store today - Page 3

post #61 of 89
8/25/08 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
...College is a good example, tuition is negotiable.
Huh? Are you referring to "how" you pay being negotiable? ... as in grants, loans, or scholarships?

I've never heard anyone say they negotiated their tuition. But it wouldn't be the first time I was missing something.

I can see negotiating a tuition at the phd level if one was to dedicate his or her research to benefitting that institution, but not college tuition in general.
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post #62 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
$1159 was the discounted price -- the MSRP was over $1500.

Mike
I have no idea if 1100 was discounted or not---that was the price i saw, for all I know MSRP WAS 1500, I don't recall if this was the first model year or not---I do remember it was summer in mid VT at a store that was mostly bikes at that time of year and I actually had two thoughts---the first was about cost, the second was "these things are clown shoes!!"
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post #63 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:19pm

$$ Skis

Habacomike, did you see the Gear Issues of Ski and Skiing. Pretty steep prices. Send me a PM and I can tell you about a possible good source. OR you can become a ski instructor and get ProForm prices which are pretty darn good.
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post #64 of 89
8/25/08 at 10:49pm
If you're paying more'n $600 for a new set of high end planks then you are getting shook, took, and rooked.

Shop around for last year's models or wait until after January when most shops start slashing prices.

2 seasons ago I purchased 3 pairs of new, high end planks and never paid more than $500 (plus tax) for any of them.

If you're paying full price I really don't have much sympathy for you.



also, it continues to amaze me how much people gripe about the expense of the sport. Hello!... skiing is an expensive sport. You either deal with it or find another, cheaper sport. It's pretty plain and simple. It ain't gonna get any cheaper. I gave up booze and comic books so I could afford to ski. And I shop around for deals on skis and boots and other necessary equipment. Also it amazes me the amount of folks who feel the necessity to buy new gear and clothes every year. I may not be fashionable (actually I am in a sick and twisted and totally cool retro way), but my 3 season old Volcom pants still do the job. And until somebody swiped 'em, I was rockin' 20 year old Kerma rental poles. They did just as well as somebody's $200 carbon ditties.

Anyway, shop around, be thrifty, and deal with the $$ (again, if you're thinking about paying $1500 for skis, then that's on you, baby).

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post #65 of 89
8/26/08 at 5:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookey67 View Post
If you're paying more'n $600 for a new set of high end planks then you are getting shook, took, and rooked.

Shop around for last year's models or wait until after January when most shops start slashing prices.

2 seasons ago I purchased 3 pairs of new, high end planks and never paid more than $500 (plus tax) for any of them.

If you're paying full price I really don't have much sympathy for you.



...
$500 ??? … Holy crap, there are new $200 high-end skis on eBay. You’re getting hosed!
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post #66 of 89
8/26/08 at 8:48am
Yeah I could also sell you a Univac top of the line fastest computer on earth that originally cost millions for only $100....oh yeah its from 1951 hope that doesnt matter.

You guys are warping this, you can get discounts but at $200 you are NOT getting last years top of the line, not without a good hook at least.
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post #67 of 89
8/26/08 at 8:58am
RR the point is the OP posted some unsupportable % increase numbers.

As is typical, the thread morphed into something else.

My only point was 5 years ago the Metron was the top of the line new thinking from Atomic and it had an MSRP right around 1500 with bindings. Now 5 years later, Grizzlies (which I presume are the latest and greatest from Volkl???) have an MSRP of 1500 ish.

I don't see the exponential price increase the OP does.
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post #68 of 89
8/26/08 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
I do not believe the Metrons had an MSRP of $1500. 5 years ago the top of the line Volkl's had an MSRP of about $1000, and you could buy them discounted at the beginning of the season for $600. 4 years ago the top of the line Volkl was the AC40, and it had a MSRP of $1065, and you could get them discounted at the beginning of the season for $650.

What I wrote the OP about was the escalation in the top of the line new all mountain ski.

Mike
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post #69 of 89
8/26/08 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
I do not believe the Metrons had an MSRP of $1500. 5 years ago the top of the line Volkl's had an MSRP of about $1000, and you could buy them discounted at the beginning of the season for $600. 4 years ago the top of the line Volkl was the AC40, and it had a MSRP of $1065, and you could get them discounted at the beginning of the season for $650.

What I wrote the OP about was the escalation in the top of the line new all mountain ski.

Mike
Since this is back on point...

5 years ago $1000>>>4years ago $1065 = $65 increase, 4 x $65 = $260. Grizleys retail for right around $1350 at the high side of street price.
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post #70 of 89
8/26/08 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Since this is back on point...

5 years ago $1000>>>4years ago $1065 = $65 increase, 4 x $65 = $260. Grizleys retail for right around $1350 at the high side of street price.
OK, but look at the increase in the street price. I will admit that it is less than I thought, only 15.5% per annum, but that's compounded over 4 years.

Based on your data, Whiteroom, it would appear that the price increases are less than I perceived. They would, however, appear to be well beyond the level of general inflation in the economy.

Mike
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post #71 of 89
8/26/08 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
OK, but look at the increase in the street price. I will admit that it is less than I thought, only 15.5% per annum, but that's compounded over 4 years.

Based on your data, Whiteroom, it would appear that the price increases are less than I perceived. They would, however, appear to be well beyond the level of general inflation in the economy.

Mike
That as was made clear early on in this thread is due to the unique nature of the product. Imported and petroleum based.
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post #72 of 89
8/26/08 at 1:01pm
I understand your point, here is my side:

Comparing the price of a Volkl Gotama from 2007 to the cost in 2008 is a more accurate way to see 'pricing increases' then looking at a new models price.

You have choosen a ski that is surprisingly expensive, it's also a very new model... and arguably a 'new catagory' of ski. The price reflects 'New Technology', any time something new hits the market it will command a premium. This holds true for computers, phones and TV sets. When Sony introduced Plasma television sets "the cost of a TV set" didn't go up... a new Plasma set cost a lot more, sure, but you could still get a great TV for a reasonable price.

You are using this to make a very broad statement about all ski equipment. I'm saying the cost of a pair of skis hasn't increased by much at all, if you use a ski model that is returning you can see whats going on, using 'Something NEW' adds to the shock value but it isn't very accurate.

I paid $499 for a pair of Volkl P9 SL's in 1987, that was a top of the line flat ski. A top of the line non-system Volkl would cost me between $599 and $849 at September store price today... that's a whopping $100 to $250 increase over almost 20 years.

Vist had $1600 systam skis 3 years ago, Nordica had $1400 skis 2 season ago... yes prices go up, I don't think ski prices are out of whack, but I understand your surprise at a $1500 price tag.
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post #73 of 89
8/26/08 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
WR

Understand your perspective. It is my perception that prices for skis in the second-year of their run+ have increased in price as well, but perhaps not at the rate that the bleeding edge skis have. My reaction was also driven by the proliferation of $1500+ MSRP skis. I guess the ski companies are just getting better at segmenting their market.

Mike

PS -- I also am a capitalist, and have no problem with folk attempting to get what the market will bear. Just surprised that with the weak economy that so many models would emerge at these price points. But perhaps the market of those who will pay full freight is broader than I would have expected. (Duh, should have realized that given the number of folk who pay what they pay for a week's ski holiday).
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post #74 of 89
8/26/08 at 3:39pm
this thread just accentuates more reasons to buy small, local, independent, hand-crafted skis or what I am presently referring to as "Slow Skiing" (similar to the "Slow Food" movement out here in Cali).

PM Gear Bros, Moment, AK, Icelantic, and Praxis can all be had for somewhere under $700ish. What you get is a boutique ski that was made by somebody you might actually bump into on the hill, shred a few laps with, and even enjoy an apres beverage at the end of the day in their company.

And if you get in on many of these small company's pre-season buys you could even get 2 pairs for well under $1500.

i'll take a small batched ski, which is easily just as top-of-the-line, over some mass produced ski any day.

but then that's me.
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post #75 of 89
8/26/08 at 4:22pm
Dookey, I hear ya', but...

No one is marketing flat freeride skis that cost $1500... er, well, none of the majors are trying to get more than $750 for any flat (non-system) ski, so the 'boutique small batch' skis aren't really ANY cheaper at all. They also tend to shift production around quite a bit at the start of their business life, so you don't actually know WHAT you might get. It could be a ripping ski made with love by the company owner... it might be made in the old O-Sin factory and be... not so good. Heck, the company might not get you a ski till february (Hello Ninethward!).

Let's face it, at some point a company like Praxis has to make a very serious decision; do I keep working my butt off making skis inhouse, with limited production potential, and accept the cash I make with no chance for more... or do I outsource production, and the increased production potential and start marketing the skis to a wider market which will yeild (hopefully) more income?

We've seen how this works with the snowboard industry back in the 90's... watching it again now with skis is cool, I hope things workout for everyone... but it won't.

As long as you don't have a warranty issue with a defunct company it won't be an issue.
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post #76 of 89
8/26/08 at 9:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
That as was made clear early on in this thread is due to the unique nature of the product. Imported and petroleum based.
sorry RR, but that just doesn't hold water. The variable cost of producing a ski must be pretty low or the ski companies would not produce so many resulting in dumping them the next season at substantial discounts to this years prices. The proportion of price that goes to fixed cost (capital cost, R&d, marketing) must be vast to justify what we see in terms of production decisions - and is consistent with common sense. Sure the weakness of the dollar and the strength of oil have impacted everyone, but we are talking about a product with very high margins (relative to marginal cost) as opposed to one with low margins (say airlines, for example).

Mike
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post #77 of 89
8/27/08 at 12:55am
I don't know Mike, for every Euro exchanged it costs us $0.35 more than a year ago last month (when I assume pricing was scheduled). So a pair of skis that last year cost $1200 will now cost almost $200 more just due to the poor exchange rates...now figure in the higher prices for materials and the shipping and its easy to see why the prices are jacked. To be honest I am pleasantly surprised that they are not higher. But I speculate if the snow fairs poorly in europe, then you might also see some price hikes the following season, they have to please the investors.
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post #78 of 89
8/27/08 at 8:08am
Thread Starter 
RR

you presume that demand is very inelastic. Cost increases cannot be perfectly passed along to consumers unless the demand curve is perfectly inelastic. Even for luxury automobiles, auto manufacturers are not able to pass along all of the cost increases they experience. Note that BMW has not been able to raise the prices on its vehicles anywhere close to the escalation of the euro against the dollar. They have to eat it.

Same with skis. These are high margin goods, so the changes in the cost (oil based or euro content based) may experience a significant increase in price, but the manufacturer will have to absorb some of the cost increase because consumers respond to the manufacturers attempt to raise price by reducing their purchases of skis.

Mike
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post #79 of 89
8/27/08 at 8:44am
Actually BMW is one of the examples that have raised their prices, by as much as 2.1%, but the competiton (asian and domestic) has gotten such that if they wish to sell the volume that they are accustomed to they cannot shadow the exchange rates. BUT, the 2.1% increase in MSRP is not even telling the whole truth, BMW has dramatically increased pricing on popular options and in some cases begun to charge for options that were standard only a year ago. Now save for the boutique and start up ski manufacturers all are based in Europe, so while they do have to contend with competitors they do not have to worry about being drastically overpriced when compared to their direct competition since they are all in the same boat and need to make similar adjustments in pricing. It goes without saying that unlike a BMW you cannot get a premium Logic 7 audio system option on your skis, so the price has to be made upfront and with full disclosure; no way to pile up profit earning costs with those things you know the consumers will need to have.
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post #80 of 89
8/27/08 at 9:01am
While we are on the topic of cost.
Why do high performance boots cost $300 more than ordinary boots?
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post #81 of 89
8/27/08 at 9:20am
The plastic costs more...
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post #82 of 89
8/27/08 at 9:22am
Buckles are platinum filled.
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post #83 of 89
8/27/08 at 9:55am
The liners don't use foam on highend race boots, they use horse hair as a padding, the best boots have Secretariat hair in them... VERY expensive.
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post #84 of 89
8/27/08 at 10:07am
Ill say this much, my liners are beautiful, made of soft but strong leather and quite elaborate. But the rest of the boot is worlds away more simple than the boots I bought my SO and that cost half the price. Her liners, though not leather, are no less elaborate.
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post #85 of 89
8/27/08 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Have you seen how bikes have gone up for 09? Well over 10% in most cases. All petroleum based products are all going up.
Petroleum based bike? Get something that lasts, like steel, Ti, or al.
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post #86 of 89
8/27/08 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Since this is back on point...

5 years ago $1000>>>4years ago $1065 = $65 increase, 4 x $65 = $260. Grizleys retail for right around $1350 at the high side of street price.
In another thread it was asked how cheaply people have been to afford the sport.

I answered and remembered some ski prices of years gone by and one that I had forgotten about.

I have the receipt from purchasing Lange Pros in 1969---they were over 200 as I remember, I'll find that memorabilia drawer and scan a copy of it. Wonder what that translates into in todays dollars

In about 1993 I bought (swapped services really) at a shops retail price, Rossi 7XK's and Marker bindings for just shy of 700. Thats GOT to be a BIG number in todays dollars---15 years later??

Mid 1990's I bought (pro price to be accurate) Tecnica TNS boots for 262.

In 2000 or 2001 I bought Volkl P40's (Yellow and Black) at the sticker on the skis (end of season---so I'm sure they were discounted at least some) with bindings for 585. They would have been a couple hundred more at beginning of season retail I'm sure.

I commented on seeing metrons in about 2005 for 1100 in the summer I'm still not seeing huge price percentage increases over the long haul.

Just my additional inflation adjusted, .02

J
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post #87 of 89
8/27/08 at 11:07am
1969/$200 = $1,191.64/2008
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post #88 of 89
8/27/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
1969/$200 = $1,191.64/2008
$1200 (in todays bucks) for boots when I was in High School!

I guess I should be renamed RR's uncle eh??
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post #89 of 89
8/27/08 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
$1200 (in todays bucks) for boots when I was in High School!

I guess I should be renamed RR's uncle eh??
Boots didn't cost that much for me in 69. They cost my dad nearly half that tho. Which would translate to 600 bucks. Sounds fair.
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