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So I went to the ski store today - Page 2

post #31 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Richie, we all know you've been car shopping. I'm guessing you aren't the one guy on earth who pays the price on the window sticker...

Point well taken, but cars are a different animal, pricing is crazy with factory incentives, special models, extreme demand, and mark-ups or downs, union issues, recalls....oh its nuts. You dont have that with skis and so it is not justified to have the price game...also cars are sold on comission, unlike most skis. Take the new Challenger I have heard prices going at $20k over MSRP, you wont find a ski being sold over MSRP or even at MSRP.
post #32 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
My point was that it is not the price of materials that accounts for the high price of skis, as was suggested by Trekchick.
What 'high price'?
post #33 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Point well taken, but cars are a different animal, pricing is crazy with factory incentives, special models, extreme demand, and mark-ups or downs, union issues, recalls....oh its nuts. You dont have that with skis and so it is not justified to have the price game...also cars are sold on comission, unlike most skis. Take the new Challenger I have heard prices going at $20k over MSRP, you wont find a ski being sold over MSRP or even at MSRP.
Find me a 'deal' on a DPS Lotus or a Bro Model... the price is the price. The big company's are like car manufacturers... and price structure reflects that.
post #34 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
What 'high price'?
I believe the high price that started this thread was $1100. Of course for me, the $350 that i paid for my RX8s was high. And the $450 i paid for my goats was highway robbery
post #35 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Find me a 'deal' on a DPS Lotus or a Bro Model... the price is the price. The big company's are like car manufacturers... and price structure reflects that.
DPS, BRO, and other boutique, start-up, and or limited distribution skis do not count....this applies for cars as well. Try to get a deal on a new Ferrari Scuderia....try to even get your hands on one for that matter. The new Buggatti Veyron spider sold for $900k more than its asking price....but there is currently only one available for sale. But you can get employee pricing on new GM vehicles that are piled up in the lots. No matter how many Ferraris the dealer has on his lot, you will have to take a number and pay big no haggling, no nothing.
post #36 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Richie, we all know you've been car shopping. I'm guessing you aren't the one guy on earth who pays the price on the window sticker...
I will say, when i sold cars, the people I made the biggest profit on were the happiest customers (and I was happier too). The ones how nickeled and dimed for every last cent were the most miserable to deal with even after the sale, no matter how much of a discount, they always think, in the back of their mind, that they left money on the table. On the flip side, on most purchases, I will ask for a discount, because if you don't ask, you don't get. College is a good example, tuition is negotiable.
post #37 of 89
Does anybody in their right mind buy skis at full retail? I am usually using my rock skis until after the first of the year anyway, and by then prices are already starting to fall. Many models are exactly the same as last year's except for different top sheets, or minisule changes that are done for marketing purposes, so you just need to do some research. A perfect example are this year's Fischer Wateas. You can get last year's 101s for 50% off from Sierra Jim or several other places right now. How out of it would you have to be to go into a shop and pay double for exactly the same ski with the new top sheet?

Every year the ski marketing departments try to make you believe that everything you own is obsolete, but how many incredible advances in ski technology have actually occured in the span of one year, and even so if you wait for a year or two they usually shake the bugs out so you get an even better ski. The Mantras are a good example of a great ski that originally had delam and topsheet problems that were fixed the second year they were out. Beware the "revolutionary" new ski, it probably hasn't been perfected yet.

I may be a jaded cheapskate, but IMHO anybody in Christmas lift line with this year's new skis is either an idiot, made an ego buy, has money to burn, or got a pro deal. Since I'm not in any of those categories I'll be holding out for 50% off, which is what I bought my last two pair of new skis for at end of the season sales.

I believe that it's at the point now with pricing where 30% off full retail is not any kind of a deal, it's the maximum price for starting to consider buying a ski.
post #38 of 89
OK I give up.

Here's a little known Ski Industry secret:

We sneak into your houses at night, steel your spare change from the dresser, siphon some gas from your car and fart on your pillow.

Now you know.
post #39 of 89
I knew it!!!!!!!! I have been blaming my gal and it was the ski industry-bandits all along.
post #40 of 89
These ski companies are making so much money that companies are going bankrupt every year. The motto for producing skis is... "You loose money on every pair, but you will make it up in volume"
post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I knew it!!!!!!!! I have been blaming my gal and it was the ski industry-bandits all along.
But this doesn't mean that she doesn't fart on your pillow.
post #42 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
What 'high price'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
OK I give up.

Here's a little known Ski Industry secret:

We sneak into your houses at night, steel your spare change from the dresser, siphon some gas from your car and fart on your pillow.

Now you know.
I don't think anyone is saying that ski shops are out to rip people off (except maybe with the footbeds, but that's a different thread). Most companies other than Walmart don't have much power over the price they pay from the manufacturer or distributor. The fat profits margin on high end gear ends up in the manufacturer's pocket. I mean seriously, do you really think it costs more to manufacture a race ski than it does for something like a PE? And before you say that the race ski is handmade, consider that there is no legal definition of "handmade" In many cases, all it means is that someone touched the product with their hands at some point in the manufacturing process, if that.
post #43 of 89
Whiteroom you crack me up to no end. I would definately buy from you because you're as honest as they come. And, you know your stuff as well as anyone here. Your posts are beyond hilarious cuz you tell it like it izzzz!

Folks, if you hate paying high prices for the HOT new ski models so much just get a job as an instructor or partol.

Got two words for ya...

"Pro Form"!
post #44 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
But this doesn't mean that she doesn't fart on your pillow.
A lady will never fart, she fluffs.
post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that ski shops are out to rip people off (except maybe with the footbeds, but that's a different thread). Most companies other than Walmart don't have much power over the price they pay from the manufacturer or distributor. The fat profits margin on high end gear ends up in the manufacturer's pocket. I mean seriously, do you really think it costs more to manufacture a race ski than it does for something like a PE? And before you say that the race ski is handmade, consider that there is no legal definition of "handmade" In many cases, all it means is that someone touched the product with their hands at some point in the manufacturing process, if that.
I dunno about the race skis vs. regular skis, but I am 100% confident that race boot pricing is legalized larceny.

Let me pay double for less features, less comfort, less gadgets, less colors, less materials, but the plastic is a little harder.

For those about to compare a race car with a street car.....dont even go there.
post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Let me pay double for less features, less comfort, less gadgets, less colors, less materials, but the plastic is a little harder.

For those about to compare a race car with a street car.....dont even go there.
Exactly. The outrageous prices of pro gear exist solely to justify the merely unreasonable prices of consumer gear. Because pros don't pay for their gear.
post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that ski shops are out to rip people off (except maybe with the footbeds, but that's a different thread). Most companies other than Walmart don't have much power over the price they pay from the manufacturer or distributor. The fat profits margin on high end gear ends up in the manufacturer's pocket. I mean seriously, do you really think it costs more to manufacture a race ski than it does for something like a PE? And before you say that the race ski is handmade, consider that there is no legal definition of "handmade" In many cases, all it means is that someone touched the product with their hands at some point in the manufacturing process, if that.
Seeing the materials that go into producing a race ski? YES!

Would you say that all a BMW is over a Nissan is the blue and white propellor?
post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Would you say that all a BMW is over a Nissan is the blue and white propellor?
No, they have lots of other shiny stuff too (or fit and finish in marketdroid speak).
post #49 of 89
I hate to rain on everyone's gripe fest, but I'll give you a little secret of the business, economics and marketing "scammers." Not every product is priced based solely on what it costs to produce, ship and market - some things are priced based on what the market will pay for it.

If I make a ski and my costs after sales, R&D and other overhead are $400/pair, and I know most people will pay $600 for them, why would I sell them at $450 just because that happens to net me a "resonable profit margin" (whatever that is)?

How much the skis actually cost to make is just a small part of the equation.
post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
Well, guys, you can rationalize it how you'd like. I do happen to be a card carrying economist, and a practicing one at that, and it seems highly unlikely to me that the increases in the price of transport, commodities, and fall in the dollar account for the increase in ski prices that we see this year, which by my estimation is at least 40%. There's not that much petroleum product in a ski (even considering transport); sure the dollar has fallen by 20% this year, but other consumer goods imported from abroad are seeing price increases less than those associated with skis. And skis are discretionary purchases for most of us.

Mike
Well, I'm in the transportation business, and the cost of transporting a container from both Europe and Asia has gone up over 100 % in the past three years. In fact heavy machine goods have become so expensive to transport from Asia to the U.S. that many manufacturers are bringing production back to the states. Maybe K2 will reopen on Vashon, WA. (One can hope.)

As everyone has stated, retail sales are all based on demand. I would imagine there won't be too many Volkl Grizzlies sold at retail price. Besides, who pays retail for anything? All the preseason sales start this Friday, Aug. 29th. Buy last years Volkl Karma and save yourself $600.

When the XXL 187 first came on the market, they were asking $899. I got mine end of season for $449. I know some folks got theirs for a few dollars less. Besides, everyone feels good when an over priced MSRP gets marked down 30%-50%.
post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Find me a 'deal' on a DPS Lotus or a Bro Model... the price is the price. The big company's are like car manufacturers... and price structure reflects that.
If you cruise TGR, you'll see that Pat routinely offers end of season or preseason deals on Bro skies. I know Bkluehosue is announcing preseason sales and that boutique ski shop has been in biz all of 2 years. You just need to do research and common sense dictates when the best time to buy seasonal goods happens to be when things are not in season.
post #52 of 89
Whiteroom, I'm sure your numbers are right on the models that have been around for three years. I suspect the significant increases are on the new models and the newer concepts. The Volkl 10' and 12' were probably significantly higher than the 6 Star and Allstar they replaced.
In general I agree with you and I don't think skis are going up any faster than similar goods manufactured in similar locals around the globe.
Like with most other stuff, if you really want to save look for slightly older and lightly used. If you insist on buying the latest and greatest then you know you're buying at the top of the market.
post #53 of 89
I gave up at post #38.

You guys can continue to whine about the shocking prices, you can make ridiculous statements, you can ignore reality... leave me out of it. I'm done.
post #54 of 89
As pointed out before, if you think skis are getting expensive and seeing rapid price rise, compare them to road & mountain bikes. I'd say they're in-line with most recreational equipment.
post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckInstructor View Post
Inflationary issues aside, there's no doubt that if you want new skis at the start of the season, you either pay a premium, or if you're lucky enough to have a good connection through reps, stores, etc. For everyone else, this whole forum is a testament to the readily available nature of good deals if you're willing to wait til mid-late season.
I have always bought all my equipment when the good mark downs happen. I am thinking Aprilish through summer. I bought 4 sets of new skis this year for no more than $400 a pair. The Nordica's included bindings. Just wait, spending even $600 a pair is tough for me to justify the way I go through equipment
post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Seeing the materials that go into producing a race ski? YES!
You also presumably have extra R&D/development costs that get amortized over a much smaller number of units. Maybe also manufacturing startup costs if they have to retool assembly lines, use different processes, etc. Low-volume products are almost always significantly more expensive to produce, even if the actual material cost isn't that much higher.

But it's all speculation unless you actually have the budget numbers from a manufacturer and can see exactly what everything cost them.
post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
I gave up at post #38.

You guys can continue to whine about the shocking prices, you can make ridiculous statements, you can ignore reality... leave me out of it. I'm done.
First time I saw a Metron in person (5 years ago??? is that about right) I thought who in their right mind would spend $1,100 with bindings.

Now a new model, 5 years later , comes with a price tag of $1,159(ish) with or without bindings was not specified.

That does not strike me as 30 or 40% increase---especially considering the impact of inflation.
post #58 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_j View Post
First time I saw a Metron in person (5 years ago??? is that about right) I thought who in their right mind would spend $1,100 with bindings.

Now a new model, 5 years later , comes with a price tag of $1,159(ish) with or without bindings was not specified.

That does not strike me as 30 or 40% increase---especially considering the impact of inflation.
$1159 was the discounted price -- the MSRP was over $1500.

Mike
post #59 of 89
I love new gear and over the years have been fortunate to be able in some years to barter through a retail organization my wife is a member of, so the gear I get hasn't been my money being spent. I now have a bunch of skis al in pretty good shape that are like 04-05 vintage and plan on skiing on them again this year. I did buy a pair of K2 PE's last year off ebay or $225 that probably will be the only ski I take when going west. The good news is there is so much equipment out there waiting to be sold that is a year or two old that tremendous deals exist and you can get a really good ski for a couple of hundred dollars if you don't insist on getting this year's model. I'm not a member of the skiing subset that will pay $1200 for a new model ski. Fortunately you can ski on some really good stuff for a lot less. I think a more prudent purcahse would be the best boot you can afford and custom fitting and you'll have something that will endure for many seasons.
post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
$1159 was the discounted price -- the MSRP was over $1500.

Mike
As an example of what we've been talking about, I bought my Metron M:EXs on e-bay. They were brand new, but two years old. I paid $400 for skis and Neox bindings, which was about 1/3 of the retail price of the year they were made.
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