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So I went to the ski store today

post #1 of 89
8/23/08 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
and I was shocked at the price they were asking for new skis. It seems that the increase in price in each of the past three years has been at least 30%. The asking price for a pair of Grizzlies was $1159!

Is it just me, or does it seem to everyone that the ski companies are a bit unrealistic about what they are asking for skis these days?

I did find a pair of AC40's for $679, and if they drop the price with the sales beginning next weekend, I can get the lower price. That was at least an ok deal.

Mike
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post #2 of 89
8/23/08 at 3:02pm
You have to start pricing somewhere. So why not offer them to early buyers at a premium. ? It seems like good business practice if it is expected to be a top seller or rated ski.
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post #3 of 89
8/23/08 at 3:10pm
Does anyone really pay full price for skis these days anyways?
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post #4 of 89
8/23/08 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
Full price is $1500. The discounted price was $1100.
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post #5 of 89
8/23/08 at 3:50pm
While at the start of the season prices are always higher, dont forget the skis all (or most) come from over seas, the dollar is in the dumpster so everything from across the ponds, is going to cost more. Even the few domestic brands will cost more due to the meteoric rise in oil prices.
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post #6 of 89
8/23/08 at 4:54pm
Have you seen how bikes have gone up for 09? Well over 10% in most cases. All petroleum based products are all going up.
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post #7 of 89
8/23/08 at 6:50pm
Petroleum based products as well as steel..............that's a recipe for price increase. Its happening everywhere, so I'm not surprised that its hitting the ski market.
Sad but true
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post #8 of 89
8/24/08 at 12:25am
New skis have always seemed ungodly expensive to me, even back in the '70s. Of course this year, as with most consumer goods, the nervousness of the economy is exacerbating the situation.
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post #9 of 89
8/24/08 at 8:22am
It gives you greater reason to be a smart shopper. Prices will drop they always do, just resist the urge to buy now. Unless of course you are RR. Hey someone has to stimulate the economy.
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post #10 of 89
8/24/08 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYSkier55 View Post
It gives you greater reason to be a smart shopper. Prices will drop they always do, just resist the urge to buy now. Unless of course you are RR. Hey someone has to stimulate the economy.
We'll see. The place I went, Boulder Ski Deals, generally does not drop their prices until February, as they heavily discount from the get go. But even with a heavy discount, the asking price is more than the list price of top skis three seasons ago. Their asking prices are less than the street prices quoted on the net at places like Ski Depot, etc.

Doesn't matter that much to me -- I still bought two pair (of last year's skis for an even greater haircut).

Mike
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post #11 of 89
8/24/08 at 8:53am
All the smart shoppers are looking for deals on left-over equipment... very savvy.

We're not stupid, we raise the price on this years stuff so that we can 'discount it' and still fleece you*.



*yes, I'm joking... really, I'm kidding. Seriously. It's a good idea, but unfortunately it's not what is happening, RR nailed it in his post.
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post #12 of 89
8/24/08 at 12:50pm
Exchange rates and raw materials costs associated with petrolium based products are big factors. Shipping also went way up with the price of oil and refined oil products. Transportation costs are often the single largest cost of goods sold with products made in Asia, Add to that the cheap labor is becoming more "developed". Workers are trading their bikes for cars and trading their cardboard huts for apartments. It all adds up to

Seriously though, good for them. We've enjoyed ridiculoulsy low priced durable goods at their expense for the past 15 to 20 years. Things are just now falling back towards equalibrium. Maybe in 20 more years as Asia labor costs and international shipping costs continue to rise it will be feesible and cost effective to move production from Asia elsewhere where folks are willing to work for pennies, like here!
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post #13 of 89
8/24/08 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Exchange rates and raw materials costs associated with petrolium based products are big factors. Shipping also went way up with the price of oil and refined oil products. Transportation costs are often the single largest cost of goods sold with products made in Asia, Add to that the cheap labor is becoming more "developed". Workers are trading their bikes for cars and trading their cardboard huts for apartments. It all adds up to

Seriously though, good for them. We've enjoyed ridiculoulsy low priced durable goods at their expense for the past 15 to 20 years. Things are just now falling back towards equalibrium. Maybe in 20 more years as Asia labor costs and international shipping costs continue to rise it will be feesible and cost effective to move production from Asia elsewhere where folks are willing to work for pennies, like here!
Well, guys, you can rationalize it how you'd like. I do happen to be a card carrying economist, and a practicing one at that, and it seems highly unlikely to me that the increases in the price of transport, commodities, and fall in the dollar account for the increase in ski prices that we see this year, which by my estimation is at least 40%. There's not that much petroleum product in a ski (even considering transport); sure the dollar has fallen by 20% this year, but other consumer goods imported from abroad are seeing price increases less than those associated with skis. And skis are discretionary purchases for most of us.

Mike
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post #14 of 89
8/25/08 at 4:06am
Well, looking at your side, Mike. You are using the very high end of a product line in your argument. The mainstream line really didn't go up that much. There are probably a few extra percentages built into the pricing of the Grizzly that you mentioned because of anticipated demand. This was no different with various models high end models from years past. It has always been, if you want that cutting edge model, you would have to pay to the nose for it.

I really feel we are going to see a bigger price increase for the economic reasons mentioned...next season. Most of the reasons said above took place after 08-09 Product was designed and priced out. Manufactures will end up with a lower profit margin than figured for this season and will try to make it back up next year.
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post #15 of 89
8/25/08 at 4:53am
Phil, that begs the question of how much hedge against currency float during the run of the ski is built into MSRP. Bad plan for the importer to wind up holding the bag on that.
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post #16 of 89
8/25/08 at 6:01am
Almost $1200 for a new set of Volkls? Somebody is smoking PCP. My '09 preorder PM Gear 183 stiffs were I think $650ish? Buy domestic and save! Now the 12ft powerswitch is only a bar tab's worth away from the new Kastles? That's rediculous.
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post #17 of 89
8/25/08 at 6:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Well, looking at your side, Mike. You are using the very high end of a product line in your argument. The mainstream line really didn't go up that much. There are probably a few extra percentages built into the pricing of the Grizzly that you mentioned because of anticipated demand.
...
That's fair.
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post #18 of 89
8/25/08 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoWork View Post
Almost $1200 for a new set of Volkls? Somebody is smoking PCP. My '09 preorder PM Gear 183 stiffs were I think $650ish? Buy domestic and save! Now the 12ft powerswitch is only a bar tab's worth away from the new Kastles? That's rediculous.
so don't buy them: nobody will kill you if you will not.
BTW: almost EVERYTHING in skis is related to oil: transport, material, even steel, wood or bindings: if not directly (plastic materials) it is indirectly related to oil (transportation, energy cost to make a pair of skis).

grizzly will be first year on themarket, with high anticipated demands (not from me cause I allready have one pair).......

it's like the iPhone: nobody believes the phone should cost $1,700.00 dollars ($300 for the phone plus at least 24 months contract for at least $60 / month)

why do we pay for it??? it's cool and hype...........
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post #19 of 89
8/25/08 at 6:52am
Inflationary issues aside, there's no doubt that if you want new skis at the start of the season, you either pay a premium, or if you're lucky enough to have a good connection through reps, stores, etc. For everyone else, this whole forum is a testament to the readily available nature of good deals if you're willing to wait til mid-late season.
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post #20 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound View Post
Does anyone really pay full price for skis these days anyways?
NO.

I buy late-season, or I buy last year's model.
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post #21 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
I do happen to be a card carrying economist, and a practicing one at that,

increase in ski prices that we see this year, which by my estimation is at least 40%.
I'm really sorry, but you should practice your economics more.

You are comparing apples to watermelon and still not getting the math correct.

The ski in your example, the Volkl Grizzly is a brand new model (with a brand new ipt wide motion binding system), it didn't exist last season... so there is no 'price increase' associated with it.

so let's look at some skis that are comparable to last season, I'll stick with Volkl to keep it simple:

AC30- 2007 MSRP= $1065 MAP= $899
2008 MSRP= $1065 MAP= $899
2009 MSRP= $1065 MAP= $899

Gotama- 2007 MSRP= $765 Map= $649
2008 MSRP= $795 MAP= $699
2009 MSRP= $825 MAP= $699

Racetiger GS- 2007 MSRP= $1200 MAP= $999
2008 MSRP= $1200 MAP= $999
2009 MSRP= $1200 MAP= $1019


I'm no ECONOMIST (and I use a calculator to add more than 3 numbers...) but I'm not seeing a 40% increase... I'm not seeing ANY noticeable increase.

Enlighten me if I'm wrong, I'm not very good at 'advanced math'.
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post #22 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:38am
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post #23 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:40am
First mistake folks make is considering MSRP to be a real price anywhere. I worked in retail management for 10 years and everything we sold that came with a MSRP and a EDLP (every day low price) -guessing MAP is Whiteroom's term Man Adjusted Price being similar.. -sold pretty much everywhere for the EDLP all the time. That pricing strategy is deceptive and intended to make folks think something is on sale or discounted when in fact it really isn't.
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post #24 of 89
8/25/08 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
First mistake folks make is considering MSRP to be a real price anywhere. I worked in retail management for 10 years and everything we sold that came with a MSRP and a EDLP (every day low price) -guessing MAP is Whiteroom's term Man Adjusted Price being similar.. -sold pretty much everywhere for the EDLP all the time. That pricing strategy is deceptive and intended to make folks think something is on sale or discounted when in fact it really isn't.
I agree, nowhere have I seen this more than in the ski industry. You step into a ski shop and the skis they are unloading from the pallet are put against the wall and immediatly marked down from the MSRP......how can they be marked down if they are newer than new? Its deception to make the consumer feel a false sense of value.
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post #25 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
Its deception to make the consumer feel a false sense of value.

Wait a minute...you mean..oh,no... DAMMIT!!!

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post #26 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
Petroleum based products as well as steel..............that's a recipe for price increase. Its happening everywhere, so I'm not surprised that its hitting the ski market.
Sad but true
The idea that materials are a significant part of the price is patently absurd. Especially for bikes, you pay more for components that use less material. And for skis, I doubt there's more than $100 worth of materials in any pair of skis you're likely to step into. It's that Volkl, or K2 or Atomic label that costs the other $1000. Of course, rising commodity prices give them some cover, because most people won't analyze exactly what goes into a pair of skis. It's like Chrysler with the "Corinthian Leather", nobody had any idea what it was, but it sounded good when Ricardo Montalban said it, so it commanded a premium.
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post #27 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by epl View Post
The idea that materials are a significant part of the price is patently absurd... And for skis, I doubt there's more than $100 worth of materials in any pair of skis
I doubt there's more than $35,000 of actual material cost that goes into any $500,000+ home... where is your point?

That ski company's charge money for R&D?
That they charge money to actually assemble the material?
That advertising expenses get passed on?
That distribution costs find there way to the end user?

EVERY industry works this way, what exactly are you saying about the 'Ski Industry'?
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post #28 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
I agree, nowhere have I seen this more than in the ski industry. You step into a ski shop and the skis they are unloading from the pallet are put against the wall and immediatly marked down from the MSRP......how can they be marked down if they are newer than new? Its deception to make the consumer feel a false sense of value.
Richie, we all know you've been car shopping. I'm guessing you aren't the one guy on earth who pays the price on the window sticker...
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post #29 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
I doubt there's more than $35,000 of actual material cost that goes into any $500,000+ home... where is your point?

That ski company's charge money for R&D?
That they charge money to actually assemble the material?
That advertising expenses get passed on?
That distribution costs find there way to the end user?

EVERY industry works this way, what exactly are you saying about the 'Ski Industry'?
My point was that it is not the price of materials that accounts for the high price of skis, as was suggested by Trekchick.
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post #30 of 89
8/25/08 at 8:56am

'nother reason to stop moaning

Paying more makes you happier:
Study Links Price, Enjoyment in wine drinking

Quote:
A joint Stanford-California Institute of Technology (Caltech) research study has demonstrated that “marketing actions, such as changes in the price of a product, can affect neural representations of experienced pleasantness.”...

The authors of the study had participants drink samples of wine, differentiated only by price. The same wine was labeled as both “$10 wine” and “$90 wine,” and another wine was used as both “$5 wine” and “$45 wine.” A third variety was priced as “$35 wine.” fMRI scanning of the patients’ brains showed increased pleasure for the subject with wine labeled at a higher price.
But not for long:

The Futile Pursuit of Happiness

Quote:
If Daniel Gilbert is right, then you are wrong. That is to say, if Daniel Gilbert is right, then you are wrong to believe that a new car will make you as happy as you imagine. You are wrong to believe that a new kitchen will make you happy for as long as you imagine. You are wrong to think that you will be more unhappy with a big single setback (a broken wrist, a broken heart) than with a lesser chronic one (a trick knee, a tense marriage). You are wrong to assume that job failure will be crushing. You are wrong to expect that a death in the family will leave you bereft for year upon year, forever and ever. You are even wrong to reckon that a cheeseburger you order in a restaurant -- this week, next week, a year from now, it doesn't really matter when -- will definitely hit the spot. That's because when it comes to predicting exactly how you will feel in the future, you are most likely wrong.
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