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Adding a second ski to the quiver for powder/crud

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
I currently have a set of forgettable all-mountain skis that are adequate, but now have a real job and would like to add a second pair with more float. I live in CA and do most skiing here, but try to get out to the Rockies and beyond a couple of times a year. I do a lot of off-piste and pretty much all of my friends are snowboarders, so I'm jealous of the extra float they get in powder and crud, and the lighter weight they carry hiking. I can't always pick my days, because I live on the coast, so I'm leaning away from the really fat boards. But on the other hand, I already have an all-mountain set, and would like to get more into backcountry/touring. No interest in park aside from the occasional funbox or tabletop while watching my crazier aquaintences hit the big stuff.

So, enough background. I'm 6'2", 210 lbs., expert (20+ years experience, former patroller). I've been looking especially at the Volkl Gotama and Mantra, but am open to other suggestions (if there's some Gotama vs. Mantra thread in the archives somewhere, point me to it). Are the 193's too big for me? I also need advice on bindings. Thanks for any help.
post #2 of 29
Here's a couple links to threads.

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=66512

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=44130

FYI there is a Google search of the forums box at the top of each page.
post #3 of 29
6'2" 210#, former patroller skiing in CA? a 190ish ski is what you should be looking at... but there is no 193cm Gotama or Mantra. It's a 190cm Gotama or 191cm Mantra. The Mantra is 'racier' feeling, it has an edgier feel and can rail turns, the Gotama is more free spirited, it feels light and quick and it skarves and smears better than the Mantra, it also gets deflected a bit in heavy chop.

Do you want a 'Big Mid-Fat' (Mantra) a ski that does just about everything well but nothing exceptionally or a 'Versatile fat Ski' (Gotama) a wide ski that can handle a bit of everything. It sounds like a subtle difference but they are very different skis.

Maybe, call me crazy, but maybe, you should decide on what characteristics you want before picking a brand.
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
get out to the Rockies and beyond a couple of times a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
I can't always pick my days, because I live on the coast

Keep your skis for all mnt use and just rent something for the days when you need a fat ski. For the hassle of traveling with more skis, tuning them, mounting them, maybe not liking them etc, for the $40 a day rental, I'd do that.

Then if you find a pair that you love buy em, or find a pair that are OK at a smoking deal get them.

If you do buy volkl listen to what has been said
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the inputs. I am kind of on the fence about exactly what performance point I'm looking for, having never owned two working pairs of skis simultaneously. I've read the other threads, and am leaning more towards the Gotama (of the two skis I've mentioned). Again, I'm open to other brands, but haven't heard a whole lot of suggestions to date...
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
but try to get out to the Rockies and beyond a couple of times a year.
What is beyond the rockies? the alps?
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
What is beyond the rockies? the alps?
From the East it would be where you ski or the Sierras
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
From the East it would be where you ski or the Sierras
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics
I live in CA and do most skiing here,
......
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
......
ok. Alps.
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
......
East coast ? Go north and seek your snow.
post #11 of 29
post #12 of 29
I like what has been said on the Mantra/Gotama.

But, If you are looking for float (compared to a snowboard) and already have a all-mtn ski, maybe looking at the fatter Katana would be good idea.

111mm is not really that fat anymore with 100mm skis being call allmtn.
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
I did actually get to Chamonix this season, but that was sort of a fluke. I was thinking more of stuff like Montana and western Canada...

Any advice on good bindings to go with this style of ski? I haven't seen much on that topic in other threads, and am not up on the latest bindings.
post #14 of 29
if you like a damp, powerful, large turning radius ski, then at your size i would DEFINITELY say the dynastar lp xxl is a ski you should consider. it is just STUPIDLY powerful, yet incredibly maneuverable in a way that NO other ski with similar specs can even come close too. it just makes no sense... it is a monster... a monster that is always on YOUR side. not trying to fight you or bite your head off.

and fyi, the specs on the lp xxl are very close to the gotama. just add lots of metal for an incredibly damp and chargin ride that is somehow not very demanding at all. either length (187 or 194) will do ya. i've skied 'em both. 187 is a GREAT all-mountain ski for mammoth, and 194 would be good if you don't like a lot of trees and bumps (they certainly handle those just fine, though) and want a slightly better powder ride. but you really couldn't go wrong in either length. oh, and they have a very long rising tip and a slightly upturned tail, so these really ski much shorter than the indicated length. i was riding the 194's with no problems at around just 165lbs.
post #15 of 29
oh, and fwiw, i have NOT skied the gotama, but i owned the 191 mantra for a while this season. great ski. just couldn't fall in love with it. the second i demoed the xxl's, i knew what was missing (and then i went and bought xxl's and sold the mantras). the mantras feel every bit their length (as in no surprising maneuverability), and despite their power, they just lacked that EXTRA oomph. but as far as the mantra's performance envelope: it's pretty high. it will float decently well, blast crud, ski larger bumps decently, rip big and medium arcs on groomers, and it just has NUTS edgehold for its width. so, yes, it can do it all. it just didn't disappear underneath me like the xxl's did. the xxl's just feel so organic. even in 194 they were more maneuverable than my 191 mantras, AND they had that EXTRA oomph i felt i was missing.
post #16 of 29
4frnt EHP too
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
4frnt EHP too
2nd...ed

never skied, but highly curious
post #18 of 29
Seems like you already have a ski in the, uh, high 70's to mid 80's? So if you're going for a actual powder/deep crud/big arc ski, and have your background/size, not clear to me either the Mantra or the Goat qualify (I love 'em both and own both, but IMO they're both very fat very versatile all mountain skis). Agree strongly with rec about XXL, demoed it once, I'd call it more of a pure big mountain type, bred for Chamonix, Jackson and Whistler style open spaces. Would also think about:

Katana (IMO probably best of this bunch for Calif type slopes)
Bro stiff or their new Lhasa Pow (so much positive about Bros from users here and TGR; gotta be great)
Movement Goliath (friend says they'll bust through solid steel but can turn; suspect more big mountain than floaty)
Head Supermojo (TT alternative to XXL for stability at speed, also BM)
Pontoon ( float for those serious Tahoe dumps; never skied them but many here worship at their alter)
Kuro - Harkin Banks is usually dead on about everything except length.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
Agree strongly with rec about XXL, demoed it once, I'd call it more of a pure big mountain type, bred for Chamonix, Jackson and Whistler style open spaces.
while i agree that these are absolute charging MONSTERS in the wide-open, what surprised me most is how well they handle in the bumps and trees. they are, imho, very versatile at different speeds


Quote:
Katana (IMO probably best of this bunch for Calif type slopes)
Bro stiff or their new Lhasa Pow (so much positive about Bros from users here and TGR; gotta be great)
Movement Goliath (friend says they'll bust through solid steel but can turn; suspect more big mountain than floaty)
Head Supermojo (TT alternative to XXL for stability at speed, also BM)
Pontoon ( float for those serious Tahoe dumps; never skied them but many here worship at their alter)
Kuro - Harkin Banks is usually dead on about everything except length.
katana- never skied, but agree you should check it out
bro- skied the 188 SOFTS, and don't think they are in the same category as the rest of the skis listed by beyond, and i don't think that stiffening them would help tremendously. i think you should forget about these, as they are in the same category as the mantra (which, as beyond said, you should be looking BIGGER). ALSO skied the lhasa pow's (aka, brockers), and, while there is definitely something to this ski, i wouldn't say that it was automatic and instantaneous MAGIC for me. i would definitely demo to see if rocker is for you (and your application)
goliath- never skied, but hear that it is VERY similar to the xxl (more-so than any other ski)
supermojo- make sure that it's the 105 or the brand new 102mm waisted versions. i haven't skied any, but the old 103mm skis were WAY to burly for all but the most charging of skiers
pontoon- would definitely demo before buying to see if rocker and non-traditional sidecut is/are for you and your needs
kuro- would definitely demo before buying to see if rocker is for you and your needs
post #20 of 29
Just an opinion/data point but if you're skiing Sierras mostly get something that can handle crud and heavy pow. That would lean more towards Mantra I think. But it's skinnier too so ....

People love both of those skis actually you'd probably find you like them too over other older skis as far as versatility in various snow conditions.
post #21 of 29
yea i know a great pair for you. i would recomend that you get the k2 extreme or the volkl gotama skis. they are both big mountain skis whitch mean that they are not quite as fat as some of the pow skis and much lighter, and can also still be used in crud and around the mountain. here is a link to the extreme. and here is a like to the gotama.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
4frnt EHP too
Great suggestion, as is the Movement Goliath.
I know, I sound like a broken record.
post #23 of 29
Best crud ski I have ever owned or tried is the Rossi B-Squad. It turns crud to powder.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrullo177 View Post
yea i know a great pair for you. i would recomend that you get the k2 extreme or the volkl gotama skis. they are both big mountain skis whitch mean that they are not quite as fat as some of the pow skis and much lighter, and can also still be used in crud and around the mountain. here is a link to the extreme. and here is a like to the gotama.
NEITHER the extreme or the gotama is a BIG mountain ski... you might say that they are both ALL mountain skis. and, fwiw, the extreme and gotama would make an AMAZING two-ski quiver... but that's for another thread
post #25 of 29
Not a backcountry board, but a really, really good big mountain ski which slays crud is the Stöckli DP Pro (125/94/111). I'm an inch shorter and 35 pounds lighter and ski the 193s.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDay View Post

111mm is not really that fat anymore with 100mm skis being call allmtn.
Since I'm kinda drunk, so I want to rant about this a bit.

[RANT=volantaddict]I have Spatulas (125mm waist) and have skied them back to back with the original Chubb (89mm waist). Though the Spats do float more than the Chubbs, after the first run, the difference becomes inconsequential. So, I feel that a lot of this sort of talk about 100mm "being called allmtn" is about as silly as hats on pigs.

Anything over 90mm will ski well in powder, as long as it's not super stiff, or mounted too far forward, and as long as you have actual skill (aren't relying on your skis to do it all for you). The same skis will also ski well in most crud too. The distinction is all just mental confusion brought about by advertising and over opinionated members of internet message boards. [/RANT]
post #27 of 29
well, I've skied my Sanouk and Mantra/LP/XXX back to back and it does not match your Spat to Chubb experience.

And that was done in CA "powder" and crud. Snowboards and very big ski really do make a difference in heavier snow.

If you are comparing float to old straight ski, say Rossi 4S's, yes anything 90mm or great get the job done. I has very happy with my Rossi XXX when I got them.


[note] I have not even had too much coffee this morning. or maybe I have...[/note]
post #28 of 29
Debating the finer points of huge skis is a great off-season activity. What amuses me the most is that if I happen to be on the mountain on a great powder day, any skis over 90mm waist will have me in heaven. The differences in skis are there, but hey, it's a great powder day!!

Now under less than ideal conditions (crud, etc.) the differences in skis matter more because the challenge is greater. Heavy sierra cement is better handled with stiffer skis. I can see why rockered skis are taking off; they can do powder and other terrain well.
post #29 of 29
I was thinking about this - don't you always ski with two skis in the powder especially?

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