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Boot and Performance

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Uncertain about how to set up my boots for high performance skiing and club SL and GS racing. Im on Nordica Doberman Pro 130's. Ramp angle is almost flat. I can eather tighten the boots up real tight or allow for more forward flex by easing off the buckles and the booster strap a thad. That is forward flex if Im not misstaken. Then I can tilt my foot forward more or less by inserting or taking out the spoiler at the back. That forward lean if Im not misstaken. Any advice much appreciated.
post #2 of 17

boot setup

Hi tdk6,

Where to start???

1st. find a bootfitter, there is a list at the top of the bootfit section

2nd. go see the bootfitter, there is a lot more geometry going on inside that new boot you just purchased, you will want to be able to use it to it's best advantage.

3rd. You probably paid a fairly large amount for these boots, It would be a shame to rely on the few words we could write in here, and think we could convey all the aspects for getting a good fit/setup out of it.

4th. Please don't ski with your buckles and power strap loose and think that softens the flex---you will get shin burn ouch!!!

5th. For you to be competitive you will need your fore/aft balance checked, your lateral alignment set, determine and set your boot board ramp angle correctly, determine and set your boots forward lean correctly,(these last 2 items will determine your center of mass "COM" position). If I had your feet and boots sitting here in our shop I'm sure we could help, but over the internet. Do you have custom insoles?

On the Olympics this week there is a commercial about a little girl gymnast doing the pommel horse event with a broken ankle, I think In 2004. She was successful, even with the injury--she overcame the pain and pushed through the punishment of doing that tumble---for the reward(she used up a ton of athletic ability credits to do that). I doubt she preferred to do it that way. What I mean to say is, don't hamstring your self by trying to set up your boots your self, there is to much involved. It will be like trying to ski with a broken leg,---a lot of pain and punishment.

Miketsc

PS, I wonder if the boots you have purchased are the right size??????????
post #3 of 17
What Mike said.
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Mike, thanks for your reply. Where I live in northern europe there are no competent bootfitters. The most experianced ones Ive contacted simply told me to stop reading the internet and jam my foot into a 2 size too small boot and stop wining. They never even heared of alignment and told me that ramp angle is set at the factory and if its good for wc racers its good for me too.....

Maybe I should become a bootfitter myself..... anyway, thats why I ask these questions. I thaught maybe somebody could give me some input.
post #5 of 17
If you can get over to the UK you could go see Colin Martin @ Solutions 4 Feet! His listed among the bootfitters on this site and is very knowledgeable.

miketsc
post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketsc View Post
If you can get over to the UK you could go see Colin Martin @ Solutions 4 Feet! His listed among the bootfitters on this site and is very knowledgeable.

miketsc
Thank you for the tip. I will contact him.

Tom
post #7 of 17
What size boot are you in Mondo size and what does your foot measure?

Lou
post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Rosenfeld View Post
What size boot are you in Mondo size and what does your foot measure?

Lou
Mondo size 29.
post #9 of 17
What size is your Nordica Doberman? They are not marked with mondo sizes (at least here in the US), what size Euro are they? so your foot measures 29cm?
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
What size is your Nordica Doberman? They are not marked with mondo sizes (at least here in the US), what size Euro are they? so your foot measures 29cm?
Here are my foot measurements:
Length: 29,6cm
Width: 10,25cm
US size: 13
Mondo point: 30,6 (dont know what that means)
Boot width: B
post #11 of 17
your actual foot measures 29.6cm

and your boot is a 29 also?
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
your actual foot measures 29.6cm

and your boot is a 29 also?
Sounds a bit strange doesent it but 29 and 29,5 are actually the same outside shell. It must measure 29,5 I guess.
post #13 of 17
Definition of Mondo point is foot length in cm. So your foot is Mondo point 29 and typically your boot would be Mondo 29.

Lou
post #14 of 17
So your Nordica's are a size EU 9 or 8? 9 would be comfortable fit probably and an 8 would need some grinding. Anything bigger than a 9 is probably a little big.

Next, realize any small change in angles is very noticeable for a good skier like you. So to say "my ramp angle is almost flat" is a gross overstatement. One degree difference in ramp is huge! It is important to understand the reasons to change and the affects of changing the various angles your boots determine and experiment with each independently and in combination to feel the affects. So again, just using the example of ramp angle, as little as 1.5 mm bontex shim under your heel or toe inside your boot will create a noticeable difference in your fore/aft plane.

There are numerous posts here on Epic that discuss alignment issues, so rather than write a book here, I would encourage you to search here to see some of the other parameters that should be considered and optimized to your particular needs.

Good luck TDK6!
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
So your Nordica's are a size EU 9 or 8? 9 would be comfortable fit probably and an 8 would need some grinding. Anything bigger than a 9 is probably a little big.

Next, realize any small change in angles is very noticeable for a good skier like you. So to say "my ramp angle is almost flat" is a gross overstatement. One degree difference in ramp is huge! It is important to understand the reasons to change and the affects of changing the various angles your boots determine and experiment with each independently and in combination to feel the affects. So again, just using the example of ramp angle, as little as 1.5 mm bontex shim under your heel or toe inside your boot will create a noticeable difference in your fore/aft plane.

There are numerous posts here on Epic that discuss alignment issues, so rather than write a book here, I would encourage you to search here to see some of the other parameters that should be considered and optimized to your particular needs.

Good luck TDK6!
Thanks for your above post. Just checked the ramp angle on my newest SL and GS skis and they are not almost flat as I remembered:
SL
Toe 51mm
Heel 55mm
Ramp 4mm

GS
Toe 51mm
Heel 54mm
Ramp 3mm

Boot size is 10

Forget a smaller boot size. Ive tried a smaller one and no can do. Even this is tight and had to have the shell blown out in a couple of places to allow for comfortable fit:
- on both feet where little toe starts left worse
- on both feet on the outside half way I have a bone sticking out
- on my left foot outside heel 4-5cm up a bump

The length is barely long enough.

But my original question here in theis thread was how to set up the for aft tilt of the boot and if the boot should be buckled up very tightly or not. I know that it has to do with ramp angle as well but now you know my ramp angle. How do you guys set your boot for high performance skiing? After experimenting, why did you end up like you did?
post #16 of 17
So you are on the same page as the boot fitters here let's get some definitions straight.

Ramp angle is the angle created inside your boot by the boot board or zeppa. This angle affects ankle fore/aft balance as you suggest but it is most important to match ramp and forward lean to create a net forward lean to match your specific ROM needs taking into consideration dorsiflexion abilities.

Delta angle is the angle created by your bindings and the stand height differential they create which you have correctly identified above. This angle affects where your knee plumbs over your toes and your overall fore/aft body position.

Mounting position is another factor in the fore/aft senerio that affects where you are over the sweet spot of the skis and determines where your neutral stance has to be over the skis to turn most efficiently.

Forward lean is the fourth parameter that affects fore/aft balance is used in conjunction with ramp angle to create the "net" forward lean. If you have a hyper mobile ankle you will need more net forward lean and if you have minimal dorsiflexion you may need less net forward lean.

These four parameters are the ingredients which need to be blended together to find your optimal set up. I start with the foot and ankle checking the dorsiflexion range to help determine ramp and then net forward lean. Then I will click the skier into their bindings and look at the static neutral position created and make any delta angle adjustments needed to get a good static stance. Then it's out on the snow to test dynamically with some small shims in my pocket to change delta on the hill. You can do this with pieces of bontex insoles cut into 1 inch strips. They make both 1.5 mm and 3 mm thick insoles which is the maximum I would use between the boot and binding interface. You will notice as little as 1mm change in the delta which creates way less than a degree difference in delta angle, so it doesn't take much to feel a difference to a good skier.

As far as the boot size I am a bit confused as you stated your foot measures 29.6 but you also said you wear a US size 13. These are two different measurements. My foot measures loaded 29.6 and I measure a US size 11.5 on the brannick device, and wear a Nordica EU size 8 (with lots of grinding) and a EU 9 comfortably out of the box. You may be surpised that with a good fitter you could get into a size 9 quite comfortably after some grinding on the lateral sides and heels and toes for your bumps. That boot has quite a bit of plastic available to grind away and sculpt to your foot's shape.

When you go out and test with the shims you are looking for a spot where you can make a series of short turns and feel it is relatively easy to stay centered. You should be able to feel slight shin pressure when neutral to be able to apply tip pressure at the top of the turns. As for buckle tension, personally I don't like any delay in time from being able to apply pressure to my shovels or to my tails so I keep the upper cuff fairly tight though I will loosen the power strap and top buckle slightly for powder days.

Technique wise, getting your boot's alignment dialed in will certainly eliminate compensatory movements but will not change some basic techique issues in your skiing. You mentioned in another thread here that you want to get your hips more forward in the turn entry. I believe you need to move your hips across the skis or over your feet laterally more rather than forward toward the tips IMO.

hope this helps some
bud
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Bud, thanks for your long reply.

Ramp
I have never deliberatly been adjusting my ramp angle since I thaught messing inside the boot had to do with fit only. And I need to have heaters inside so I kind of choose insoles depending on weather. My custom insoles are higher at the heel but also at the toe (snug fit). However, they are so totally different I cannot really make any conclusion conserning the ramp angle. For racing I use the custom footbeds. BTW, my linear is comming apart. Is it possible to order new ones?

Delta
This is what I have been calling ramp. I kind of like to stand as tall as possible for good edging so in that sence less delta suits me well.

Mounting position
I have tried to mount my boots according to BOF. On my Blizzards Im slightly forward of the centermark but on my Heads Im up to 40mm forwards. The Blizzard centermark is set more forward. Im more over the sweetspot and the longer tail holds the skis in a stronger carve.

Forward lean
I have tried to take the spoiler out at the back. It changed my forward balance. It put me more in the back seat. I do not know if its a good thing or a bad thing. I must continue testing.
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