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Olsson training with Bode - Page 3

post #61 of 101
RayCantu,

When I try to click on the article, all I get is a message that I don't have 'permission to view'. Is there another way I could access the article?

Thanks
post #62 of 101
NE Racer,
I think one way is to become a Epic supporter. Possibly if the moderators thought it was relevant possibly they could post it for those who would like to read it.
post #63 of 101

JO skiing pretty well now down in NZ:

http://www.jon-olsson.com/?p=2727

post #64 of 101

if you look closely you will notice that Jon has some very unique boots on his feet.

 

wonder if those boots have anything to do with Jon's great results this summer in nz?

 

jim

Reply
post #65 of 101

Or with Warner Nickerson's two consecutive 6 pt. results. WCN's skiing took a dramatic leap when he changed his footwear. I'm a believer.

post #66 of 101

For those of you who don't follow Warner, he won a GS in NZ, finishing ahead of a couple of guys named Ted and Bode.  Mule and I keep an eye on him because he is a credit to the Colby ski program we hail from.  He is wearing a unique all carbon boot from Dodge (the ski family, not the car)

 

http://dodgeskiboots.com/Index.htm

post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Bell View Post

JO skiing pretty well now down in NZ:

http://www.jon-olsson.com/?p=2727


Haha, I make a cameo in the background of that at around 8.19.

post #68 of 101


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

For those of you who don't follow Warner, he won a GS in NZ, finishing ahead of a couple of guys named Ted and Bode.  Mule and I keep an eye on him because he is a credit to the Colby ski program we hail from.  He is wearing a unique all carbon boot from Dodge (the ski family, not the car)

 

http://dodgeskiboots.com/Index.htm


Most under-rated US skier, ever. I honestly don't understand how the USSA can keep shafting him when he does nothing but score.

 

As for his boots, when I saw them a couple years back I was quite amazed at how thin they were. At the race I was in with him, he was given the nickname "boots".

post #69 of 101

To be honest, I wouldn't really say he does nothing but score ;) If you check his results (this New Zealand thing is far far from objective to show real strength), he's not really all that great. Few European cup races finished in top 15, in Soelden he finished all the way down on end in first run, and not much better in Kranjska Gora (with DNF in first GS), and those were only 3 WC races he did last year. He does better in Nor-Am, but at least in skiing, Nor-Am is not really something you can consider as factor on overall level ;) And on top of that, he's everything but young... at least when it comes to top level skiing.

post #70 of 101

I'm fairly familiar with Warner's situation, and by extension have read a bit about Jon's. What I am frankly waiting to see is whether this truly is a long awaited breakthrough by Warner. For years he has been a very consistent 10-12 point skier, with world rankings in the 60-70 range. He has never had a second run in a WC, and his EC results are nothing special. Depending on how you view things, you can form a number of opinions as to where he has been. This is not a guy who came up as a junior through the USST system, was never a "chosen one", and  there are plenty of opinions out there as to how the USST might have handled him differently.  A equal number of people were saying that he was an amazingly consistent skier, but not at a level that would do a thing on the WC. It's kind of heard to argue with that. Everbody likes him, admires his work ethic, etc.  I think one question was "Is this a WC skier?"  That's a very different stage.

 

If he has made an enormous breakthrough, with a new world ranking in the low thirties, he should have different results on the WC. To lower those six points, he will likely need a top five WC finish. That is a very tall order. Enormous. He can only do it with WC results and sub 6 point penalties. Not sure he can do that, but I am convinced that a start in the top thirty is going to be a whole lot different than a start in the high 50's, in particular for this guy. Might not be as big a deal for a Tommy Ford. I think it will be for Warner. Just my opinion. I think he will at least be getting second runs, and scoring points.

 

The real interest to me is how much of this is driven by the Dodge boot. Warner's skiing began to "pop" as soon as he got in the boot late this spring. First career sub 10 point result. This summer, with a lot of boot work and refinement, he really appears to have jumped. Primoz is right, in that I don't think we can look at those 6 point results as being like 6 point WC results. But the argument of how and where people "got their points" is always there, beginning in the JII years. Forget that. Warner has skied in those races for years, and has never had those results. Something is different, and i don't think it's the skiing. It's not the skis.

 

Personally, I think it's a combination of the boots, and his head. He had a very firm goal of skiing in the 2010 games, in GS, and he fell just short. I think his tank was just drained. This has not been easy to do this on his own, raising money, pinching pennies, managing all of his own program details, etc. I sense from what I hear that he's relaxed, very fit, and the boots are working. Whether they work perfectly for him, based on his size, technique, etc, who knows?  I think it's pretty clear from pictures that Head would love to have "lost" that Jon's new breakthrough results are in the boot. That's awkward as he is evidently a HUGE Head athlete.  If you start to see others making big and sudden gains, it's going to be telling.

 

I overheard another boot company race rep dumping all over the Dodge boot "gimmick" this spring. Reminded me of a many years ago {like 45} when my brother was one of about 4-5 skiers in this country to give up their custom fitted Hierling leather boots {which all the USST skied in at that time}, for these ugly black plastic things built buy some guy named Lange in his garage. My dad thought he was nuts. Everybody will always ski in Molitors or Heirlings {and we'd all race SL on 205cm wood Kastle's}. Fords will be black. World is flat. They were ugly, cheap looking, cold, and they broke. But they were faster.

 

From what I hear, I have a hunch that it's the boots. Such a breakthrough could be very interesting in the day where all top racers are under equipment contracts, and there are national team pools, and all that good stuff. Not as simple as "I want those boots."  Not quite that easy.

 

Fun to watch. I like it when things get a bit shaken up. And yes, Newf and I, former teammates and fellow alums  WCN do take a special interest in him. Tremendous person. If he's part of what is in fact a breakthrough, all the better. Very cool for Dodge.

post #71 of 101

post #72 of 101

Read Greg Needell's latest blog, "In Search of Sixes", on his site or skiracing.com.  Explains WCN's situation. I forgot that the WC start list is based on WC results, so if WCN gets a WC start it will be outside the top 30. From my rumor mill, he's pretty much been assured a lot of WC GS starts. Keeping your country's second ranked GS skier out of WC starts would be a problem for the USST, I hope. Grande suggests so. And yes, I do think it's about the "ski shoes."

post #73 of 101

I would still reconsider a bit this "country's second ranked GS skier", just as well as Olsson being now Sweden #3 GS skier. The way FIS counts FIS points, this is of course perfectly fine and totally correct statement, while in real life, things are most likely totally different. We were just talking about this two days ago after our ice hockey session with friend, who was down there in New Zealand  for last month. All those guys were down for training, not racing. This means they were everything but in racing form, tired, with whole lot of runs in their legs, and then they went to those few races. So beating them in condition like this doesn't mean much. But on the other side, FIS doesn't care about this when they calculate points. If there are people like Ligety, Miller, Neureuther etc. points will be extremely low, even if their skiing is way off top level. So technically he is second ranked GS skier, but when real races will come, I honestly doubt he will be anywhere near USA's second ranked GS skier. 

PS: But no matter what, don't understand me wrong. Beating Ligety and Miller, even if they are in "training mode" is big deal, so all respect for that. And it doesn't matter if it's about shoes or skis or not. On the end, you still have to ski great to do this, no matter what equipment you have.

PS #2: WC start list is done by WC points, and only after number 30, low FIS points come to play. So even with really low FIS points, he won't be starting in top 30.

post #74 of 101



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

. All those guys were down for training, not racing. This means they were everything but in racing form, tired, with whole lot of runs in their legs,.and then they went to those few races. So beating them in condition like this doesn't mean much. But on the other side, FIS doesn't care about this when they calculate points. If there are people like Ligety, Miller, Neureuther etc. points will be extremely low, even if their skiing is way off top level. So technically he is second ranked GS skier, but when real races will come, I honestly doubt he will be anywhere near USA's second ranked GS skier. 

PS: But no matter what, don't understand me wrong. Beating Ligety and Miller, even if they are in "training mode" is big deal, so all respect for that. And it doesn't matter if it's about shoes or skis or not. On the end, you still have to ski great to do this, no matter what equipment you have.

.

 

Primoz is on target here.  These off season races are skied rather charitably by the top skiers to help out teammates. Warner has tested skis for Bode for the last few years, and Bode, finding that the race situation was ripe, paid him back.  From Warner's blog: 
 

 

Quote:
 So I pushed out of the gate, snapped off a couple good turns, and struggled some on the upper section. The snow wasn’t holding up very well, but I just tried to keep it together. I was switching my edges too early in a couple places and wasn’t being patient enough. I crossed the line and moved into the lead two-hundredths ahead of Ted. Bode came down and made a mistake/shutter down across the finish line. I gave him a big high five, thanked him, and walked away with the best result of my career. The best possible point race you can score outside of world cup competition, a 6-point race.

 

This is a game played by all skiers and teams.  As Primoz correctly states, you have to ski pretty well to pull it off.  Had Bode rested for the race and charged to the line, he might have knocked his 6 point race back to an 8, still pretty good.

 

Warner may not be our second best GS skier, but he is certainly third or fourth. He has been on the podium in both the Canadian and the US National Championships.

post #75 of 101

Agree 100% that these two six point results are NOT like two 6 point WC results, EC results, or even NorAm wins. No debate. One point is that WCN now has a 6 point profile which is a heck of a lot different than where he was a year ago. And while he won't be in the top thirty on a WC start list, now, he will not be starting in the high fifties or sixties, so he might have a shot at a second run, and scoring some WC points. Might. As we know he has had exactly six WC starts to date. But back to my original observation, WCN has skied in the Continental Cup races in NZ for about 5-6 years, and has never had these results. Same general lay of the land, with legit WC skiers dialing in, in training mode, and yep, maybe even throwing them sideways at the finish. But even with that levelized playing field, WCN has never had a win there in the past. He is skiing faster. And what I am suggesting is that the one difference in his overall "program" is the boots. It just bears watching. That's how this discussion came about. I'm not debating how "legit' the 6 points are.  I'm not debating where Warner falls in the rank order of US skiers. For example I would bet on Bode, regardless of current point profiles. It will be interesting to see WCN head to head with Tommy Ford. Jit, who knows?  What I'm interested in observing is whether it's a breakthrough. I'm also going to be watching anybody else that I know is on Dodge boots to see for similar strides, as the gearhead side of me tells me that there is something there. It's harder for me to draw the same conclusion about Jon, yet, as he has be steadily improving since re-entering the alpine world.

 

I guess it's a simple as Warner seems to be a lot faster on this very different boot, and that seems to be the word {regardless of the 6 points}. Wonder how much the boots have to do with it? We'll see. Guess we need to wait a while.

post #76 of 101


This is kind of where I come out on this discussion.  Bode is constantly dinking around with his setup to optimize his setup.  Maybe he doesn't know everything, so fine...all of you folks who feel otherwise, don't tell us, tell him.  The subtext of this whole thread is "Does alignment matter?" (Easy answer:  "Yes, of course it does"), but as far as what good alignment is...well, there's lots of theories, and because we're all built differently, and ski differently on different stuff, it's hard to come up with a bunch of hard and fast rules when it gets to the level that Bode is at.  You can look at all the data and theorizing you want; I, like Ron LeMaster, am an empiricist when it comes to my own setup.  I got a new pair of Atomic CS 130s last year which were generally about the same as the pair I had been skiing on, but the plastic was different and the stance/alignment was a little different.  Larry, at Larry's in Boulder, ground/fitted the boot for me and helped me with the initial cuff cant setup, which is all I need plus the stock insoles.  My coaches and I tweaked the cuff cants a little more and got that pretty well wired.  One of my coaches had us doing a variation of the sideslip/roll to an edge drill, where you're not supposed to move backward or forward, just leave a clean, skis width path down the hill, and I kept sliding forward.  Maybe technique, but my coach felt like I was standing too far back from the sweet spot, so he had me stick 1/4" of dense neoprene between my liner and cuff.  Crude solution, but it seemed to work fine, and my skiing picked up immediately...

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLATZ View Post

Many times I've heard Bode mention "I changed my cant ...." As I understand it he is constantly fiddling with his boots and equipment. I know for sure that when his slalom started to fall off a few years ago he had increased his shaft angles forward. Just before the Olympics when his slalom improved he had straightened his boots. I figured this out by comparing video frames (in the neutral position) between him and others on the same equipment. I also recall a writer or someone telling him not to mention those things because "people don't care". Only Ski Racing and places like that publish those kind of remarks. Sometimes you have to read between the lines to figure it out.
post #77 of 101

Mule's point:  Here's where his points started coming down:  the day he switched to a radical boot 

 

 

Wednesday, March 17, 2010

 
Yesterday, I raced on the Dodge Ski Boot, which is made by Dave Dodge, Peter Dodge’s (Dartmouth ski coach) brother, and Bill Doble. It’s a boot made mostly out of carbon fiber. There is some plastic keeping it together, but basically it’s entirely made of carbon fiber. Carbon isn’t temperature sensitive, it is very torsionally stiff, and is very low volume so booting out (when your boot hits the snow rather than just your edges) is almost impossible. It’s very solid in the turn and creates a great platform at the top of the turn. If you want to know more check out: http://dodgeskiboots.com.

I’ve been testing it here and there and decided to race Nor-Am Finals on it without much comparative timing. First run, the snow was very soft. I started 11th and put down a very solid run and never booted out. I won the first run by half a second over Chris Frank who started 1st. My run was not miraculous, it was good and I was up by 5 tenths with a solid field so I was pretty pumped. Second run, the organizers did a great job salting the course to firm it up. I killed the upper section of the course and then on the harder snow I took a conservative line and slid the top of the turn too much. Tommy Ford ended up taking the victory, while I was 14 hundredths behind him. He put down a great run. I scored the best result of my career an 8.83 point race.
post #78 of 101

Thanks for the assist, Newf. That's it. Too early to tell, but I have a hunch. No more, no less.

post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muleski View Post

 

The real interest to me is how much of this is driven by the Dodge boot. Warner's skiing began to "pop" as soon as he got in the boot late this spring.


He's been in Dodge for longer than a year. I saw him on a handful of occasions in the 08-09 season in those boots, though it probably took a little while to get the boots "right" for him.

post #80 of 101

David Dodge races in our Tuesday race series, so we've been watching the boot evolve for a while now. People are in and out of them as they change. I think as of last spring they only had a 26.5, so not everyone that wants to has been able yet.

post #81 of 101

They'll have 24.5 - 27.5 in the upcoming season.

post #82 of 101

Considering how much every aspect of his skiing is scrutinized, I doubt we could offer Bode any set up advice that he hasn't already considered. The bottom line is most of us could learn more from him than we could ever teach him. His high risk, high reward style isn't for everyone (especially the less gifted) but it works pretty well for him. All of those suggestions that he would be more consistent / successful if he changed what he does, ignores why he has been so successful in the first place.

post #83 of 101

.

post #84 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post

According to a magazine article Olsson is the worlds highest paid skier....I think the number was like $2m a year....he's not getting paid because he sucks.



Dude, he made the most money because he knows how to whore himself.  Not that I think that's a bad thing, nor do I think he's being paid because he "sucks"...  But there are several people I believe to be better freeskiers that make way less because they haven't submersed themselves in the media aspect of being a pro skier the was Olssen has.  Not trying to take anything away from the man- quite the opposite, I admire him for pushing himself in another discipline- just sayin'. 

 

post #85 of 101

How many free skiers are needed to change a light bulb?

The correct answere is 11.

1 to change the light bulb and 10 to say they could have done it better.

 

And Olson clearly proved that no world class free skier is automatically shaped up for eather GS or SG not to talk about DH. BTW, he was supposed to ski in the Olympics. What happened?

post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

How many free skiers are needed to change a light bulb?

The correct answere is 11.

1 to change the light bulb and 10 to say they could have done it better.

 

And Olson clearly proved that no world class free skier is automatically shaped up for eather GS or SG not to talk about DH. BTW, he was supposed to ski in the Olympics. What happened?


I'm pretty sure he was talking about Sochi. He's realistic enough to know he would never make Vancouver.

post #87 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




I'm pretty sure he was talking about Sochi. He's realistic enough to know he would never make Vancouver.


Yes, it was not Vancouver that was his target. It would have been close to impossible to get enough FIS points to be on the Swedish national team in time. He's pretty close now though.
 

post #88 of 101


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

 

And Olson clearly proved that no world class free skier is automatically shaped up for eather GS or SG not to talk about DH. BTW, he was supposed to ski in the Olympics. What happened?


Nobody expected it to be an easy transition.  And the 2014 Olympics haven't happened yet.

post #89 of 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

And Olson clearly proved that no world class free skier is automatically shaped up for eather GS or SG not to talk about DH. BTW, he was supposed to ski in the Olympics. What happened?

Are you kidding ????

 

He's skiing pretty darn well against the best skiers in the world... I'd say he is proving the exact opposite.

post #90 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Quote:

Are you kidding ????

 

He's skiing pretty darn well against the best skiers in the world... I'd say he is proving the exact opposite.



BWAHAHA.  I still remember this one time at the big end of season ski hill party they had GS race that all the gurus, ski school directors, race team coaches, top 2 NASTAR pace setters and about a dozen other folks competed in.  Out of all that, I can tell you who won that race.  It was the USSA Junior Freestyle Champion (moguls and ballet specialist)  and assistant coach of our Freestyle Team.  This was back when many hills had racers versus freedoggers feuds.  Many were completely in disbelief.  Frickin' hilarious!

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