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Olsson training with Bode

post #1 of 101
Thread Starter 
Top Freeskier Jon Olsson aims to become the most versatile skier of the world






At the moment Jon is training with Bode Miller and the HEAD Racing team in NZ. He takes his Racing activities very seriously and after he had won a FIS race in New Zealand the skiing world is astonished about how he can be so fast after he was only focusing on Freestyle for the last eight years.

In order to keep up with his freeskiing competitors he uses the rest of the time in NZ to practice new tricks in the park. Jon knows of this huge challenge for his body but he always set his goals beyond others and so far he was successful with this strategy.

At HEAD we offer him every support no matter if it’s for Racing or Freeskiing.















Is it the angle of the photo or is that Jon Olsson one huge dude, das Bode looks like a little girly man next to him!

Copied from Head.com
post #2 of 101
Is he still training under Harb?
post #3 of 101
If he would it would truly be harrible


Sorry....
post #4 of 101
Olsson has a LOOOOONNGGGGG way to go to catch the top freeskiers...

Funny, he must have realized that his lack of race training was holding him back.....

I wish him luck, but this guy is no Seth.
post #5 of 101
His video blog is always entertaining.

http://www.jon-olsson.com/
post #6 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
Is he still training under Harb?
That would be very entertaining if Olsson is still training with Harb, as Harald as made it quite clear on his website that he doesn't think much of Bode's skiing. And now they're training together... Go figure.
post #7 of 101
Harald has said that Bode is a better athelete than he is a skier. Hard to argue with that. Probably one of the best in terms of atheletic ability to ever put on a pair of skis. Makes some recoveries that nobody else would have been able to do. That's what makes him so fun to watch, you never know what he might pull off next. On the other hand, it's these same tendencies that get him into trouble in the first place. Bode has always had the reputation for being somewhat stubborn. Despite all that he's achieved, it makes you wonder what he could have been with some decent coaching and being just a little more open minded.
post #8 of 101
Sometimes I just laugh when people can not get on any podium (Harb) start to offer advice about how Bode should be skiing.
post #9 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBC View Post
Sometimes I just laugh when people can not get on any podium (Harb) start to offer advice about how Bode should be skiing.

Kind of how movie critics are all failed actors, producers, and or directors...
post #10 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBC View Post
Sometimes I just laugh when people can not get on any podium (Harb) start to offer advice about how Bode should be skiing.
Like any of his coaches? Great skiers don't always make great coaches. It goes the other way around as well. Harb at least got World Cup starts, which I think at least says something about his abilities.
post #11 of 101

I think you're missing the point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
Harald has said that Bode is a better athelete than he is a skier. Hard to argue with that. Probably one of the best in terms of atheletic ability to ever put on a pair of skis. Makes some recoveries that nobody else would have been able to do. That's what makes him so fun to watch, you never know what he might pull off next. On the other hand, it's these same tendencies that get him into trouble in the first place. Bode has always had the reputation for being somewhat stubborn. Despite all that he's achieved, it makes you wonder what he could have been with some decent coaching and being just a little more open minded.
...first, skiing at an elite level, just like any sport at an elite level, is going to be ruled by exceptional athletes. Being a great athlete is often what makes a good ski racer.

Second, Bode's pushed the boundaries of technique, as opposed to having a bunch of coaches stuff him into a box. Go look at an article that Ron LeMaster wrote some years back showing why Bode was so much faster than Aamodt in slalom (better use of the whole length of the ski). In many respects, he's reinvented ski technique.

Finally, Bode takes incredible risks, which you can do if you're a superior skier/athlete. Sometimes he doesn't pull them off, and the stock answer is always "well, he should have listened to the coaches." When he does pull something off, however, he makes the rest of the field look like a bunch of J5s. Consider, for example, the following article about his 2008 Lauberhorn win:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/ind...ticle&sid=3671
post #12 of 101
I think Bodes' wild recoveries are the result of "alignment issues" not some new technique, and without his exceptional athletic abilities would not be possible.
post #13 of 101
'I think Bodes' wild recoveries are the result of "alignment issues" not some new technique, and without his exceptional athletic abilities would not be possible.'

Care to elaborate on what these 'alignment issues' might be?
post #14 of 101

Alignment issues for Mr. Miller...

Even Mr. Miller would admit that he is not symmetrically aligned. As a result he has described how he has developed techniques to overcome this mis-alignment. Why not get aligned properly? Of course, this then begs the question of what the "heck" that means.

One of you commented on his ability to utilize the whole ski. Funny how that rarely comes up in these discussions. Aren't we all attempting to utilize the whole ski at least most of the time? At least when we are arcing those nice turns out there? Physics is physics and the laws don't change from skier to skier. One with outstanding athletic skills, and who knows it, should be particularly sensitive to this situation and focus on developing proper technique and seeking to maximize the effectiveness of his equipment so that when the time comes he will just blow away the competition in the performance at hand and not be resigned to using those innate skills to overcome, or attempts to overcome, the wild variables that come up while traveling at 80 mph. Mr. Cantu above started this ball rolling. We are starting at the top with Mr. Miller and it should all be downhill from there, at least with the caliber of skiers we are addressing BUT as I alluded to, we all have to deal with the same forces of nature. And whether or not one instructor won the world cup or not should not matter at all. That is anti-intellectual and literally holds no water at all. Just because I don't shoot guns doesn't mean I couldn't build one that will blow you away!

EJ
Motive Force
post #15 of 101
Skidude,

You really don't think olsson is one of the top 'freeskiers'?? Not arguing with you-it's just hard to tell in a very subjective sport (who's your favorite ski film star is similar to arguing over a favorite actor...) who's better than whom. And in the popular attempts to objectify freeskiing, that is various big air and similar competitions on a competitive circuit, well, Olsson is a pretty big deal.

I'm a Radio Ron fan myself!
post #16 of 101
Thread Starter 
According to a magazine article Olsson is the worlds highest paid skier....I think the number was like $2m a year....he's not getting paid because he sucks.
post #17 of 101
post #18 of 101
NE Racer,
If skiing is viewed from the context that body positions and movement patterns are the result of how the skier is balancing with the forces created while skiing then the "Alignment issues" become more obvious. These forces are created by the skiers use of gravity along with the engagement and interaction of the ski and the snow.

Of the things that effect what is observed as skiing such as, the comprehension and expression of Technique, the comprehension and expression of Biomechanics, as well as the available Equipment, it could be said that Equipment, has the greatest influence on skiing.

Alignment adjustments are made in the interface that connects the skier to the available Equipment. It could be said that Alignment adjustments done in this Equipment/skier interface will have the greatest effect on both the "effectiveness" as well as the "efficiency" of the skier.

These ideas are more obvious when skiing is viewed from the snow up as opposed to from the head down.
post #19 of 101
EJL,
An interesting and thoughtful post, do you think it might be appropriate to
add to the point, you clearly made, that "Physics is Physics" the concept
that "Biomechanics is Biomechanics" as well, for the purpose of containing
any resulting discussion within the accepted science, as opposed to, just
rambling opinion? I don't think this would detract, from what my understanding
is, the intention underlying your post. Please let me know if I have missed
your intent.
post #20 of 101
Thread Starter 
What I find interesting about Bodie is that his skiing is far from the best looking...yes he does pull off some amazing stuff and some of his still photos are simply amazing...In contrast I remember watching Daron Rahlves skiing and he looked like the picture perfect skier, his moves appeared to be by the book to the letter, his technique looked flawless, yet he was usally second to Bodie on the podium.
post #21 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post
What I find interesting about Bodie is that his skiing is far from the best looking...yes he does pull off some amazing stuff and some of his still photos are simply amazing...In contrast I remember watching Daron Rahlves skiing and he looked like the picture perfect skier, his moves appeared to be by the book to the letter, his technique looked flawless, yet he was usally second to Bodie on the podium.

Bode is a master of finding Neutral... Daron wasn't
post #22 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayCantu View Post
NE Racer,
If skiing is viewed from the context that body positions and movement patterns are the result of how the skier is balancing with the forces created while skiing then the "Alignment issues" become more obvious. These forces are created by the skiers use of gravity along with the engagement and interaction of the ski and the snow.

Of the things that effect what is observed as skiing such as, the comprehension and expression of Technique, the comprehension and expression of Biomechanics, as well as the available Equipment, it could be said that Equipment, has the greatest influence on skiing.

Alignment adjustments are made in the interface that connects the skier to the available Equipment. It could be said that Alignment adjustments done in this Equipment/skier interface will have the greatest effect on both the "effectiveness" as well as the "efficiency" of the skier.

These ideas are more obvious when skiing is viewed from the snow up as opposed to from the head down.
A bit of background for reference. I'm a USSA National level Coach. I have an MS in Kinesiology. I've also done quite a bit of tech work, including skis and boots that have done well at Nor-ams and other National events. I've also seen Bode ski on many occasions.

I would be curious to see exactly what the alignment issues you perceive are. Care to share in specifics?
post #23 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
Olsson has a LOOOOONNGGGGG way to go to catch the top freeskiers...

Funny, he must have realized that his lack of race training was holding him back.....

I wish him luck, but this guy is no Seth.
Olsson is one of the top freeskiers. He hosts his own invitational air events and is one of the most respected jumperes on the planet. Seth and Jon are of two different genres. Seth also doesn't have a tremendous race background. He began filming when he was under 20 and uses that medium to push the sport.

Olsson has air-presence, balance, timing and confidence. With a bit of refinement in the course, he's bound to progress and push the sport.
post #24 of 101
This is getting serious! Ray and NE!
Ray, I would certainly agree that biomechanics is the fundamental consideration when discussing alignment but the equipment has a huge impact in that regard and to that, from what I read I presume you would agree. I suppose that any place one uses the term "biomechanics" the use of the word "physics" might be substituted as biomechanics could be considered a subset of physics. [vs the other way around and yet the terms are of course different.]

I love the term "interface" that has been entered into the discussion. In cycling I refer to five interfaces between the cyclist and the bike. [There was even a thread that made a meager attempt to address this issue on Epic.] The hands, the seat, and the feet are the five. In that sport they are not particularly understood as they aren't in skiing. In skiing I'd say that there are only two interfaces as far as the body is concerned. THE FEET. The feet interface with the bottom of the INSIDE of the boot. I stress the inside. Different feet, different interaction. Add a footbed and performance should change. Add a footbed/orthotic/insert, heel lifts for example, modify the cuff one way or the other [I'm going to include the lower leg in my very general definition of the foot in this discussion] and proprioception is altered as the foot's interaction with the BOTTOM of the boot is altered. Seems obvious but it isn't to many. Then we have the interface between the bottom of the boot to the binding and the binding to the ski and the ski to the snow. Most skilled skiers will feel a subtle change to any one of these variables. I've heard, and read on this site that, for example, in regard to heel lifts, "I'm not really a fan of heel lifts" or even "they don't do anything!" from a contributor to a significant ski magazine boot review. The former implies that he doesn't like them but I presume he has a reason for that opinion. The second states as a fact that they don't do anything. I'd strongly disagree with the second comment. Even the first commenter would agree they do something, even though he apparently does not like what they do.

For the purpose of this discussion I think we should focus on performance and not fit issues. Of course a poor fit, that is, an uncomfortable fit will have an impact on performance but I'd suggest that we focus on how changes to our "interfaces" effects change in performances presuming comfort is not an issue. That way we are learning about the physics/biomechanics of the sport.
I could go on but I'm tired from viewing the Olympics and a 105 mile bike ride this morning. Ray may want to respond in more detail to the question asked of him by NE. Ray, did I respond to the questions you put forth?

Thanks for indulging me!
EJ
MotiveForcer
post #25 of 101

How much faster?

RayCantu
How much faster would Bode be if he was aligned correctly?
0.5%? 1%? 10%? or does the percentage vary withe the event.
You mention efficientcy maybe he wouldn't be faster just less tired? So he could be stronger at the bottom of the long classic downhills (Lauberhorn etc) ? (or train less in the offseason)??
Are there others on the WC who are aligned incorrectly? And Who on the WC is aligned the best?
post #26 of 101
Quote:
Bode is a master of finding Neutral
I don't pretend to have the expertise you guys do, just a big racing fan. But this statement strikes me as very true.
post #27 of 101
With all respect to Harald et al, to suggest that Bode isn't a great skier is specious.

He has an incredible ability to both maximize time spent in the fall line and glide on the ski. Like other innovators before him, he has re-written the rules tactically (line and risk taking).

Because he doesn't look like other skiers, people make the highly flawed assumption that his technique is "bad". It's a classic example of form vs. function. If you look at what he's able to do with/to the ski... well, that answers all the questions about his technical ability.

He has long femurs and is knock-kneed - and is well aware of it. He plays with his equipment and alignment constantly (to the point of driving everyone crazy) in order to test and optimize his 'sweet spot'. He is not concerned about how it looks, rather how it feels and works.
post #28 of 101
How much would you pay to be a 10% better skier? Years ago, the day I got my first footbeds my performance jumped from a level 6 to an 8 just like that. Much cheaper than a lesson and my performance jump was huge. It got me thinking. What else can we do to the physical aspects of the fit that will improve the dynamics of the sport? So then, I'd suggest that a serious skier, someone who is motivated to improve, would be willing to pay for even a 1% improvement. That is a huge jump for the higher end skier. Of course these numbers are subjective but make the argument that we can maximize the impact the equipment has on our performance and consolidate it with practice and technique. I'd say, and I don't have a race background per se, that much of what I see being taught in our instructional clinics for ski instructors and being passed onto our students are techniques to overcome the deficiencies of the equipment. Here's a simple example I alluded to above. I bought footbeds and I improved. This was after I bought higher end boots and skis when I got into the sport knowing my athletic profile. I did not get turned onto them by the guy who sold me the boots. Nor any of the instructors who saw me skidding my way down the hill and having difficulty engaging an edge and feeling as if my weaker left knee was about to blow out. No, it was my non skiing mountain bike buddy who is a physical therapist who heard my complaint about my knee while riding in Colorado and Moab. He made me a quick set of orthotics in his lab and I asked if they might work in my ski boots. He was shocked I already didn't have a set for them! So, we can buy performance. Otherwise why would people buy new equipment every year or so? Then it comes down to value. At Bode's level, I'm sure if he could fork over money to accomplish a 0.1% improvement he would.

Now, what is the standard? Well, there is none. We have a DIN standard. That is quantifiable and definable. There are, I'm sure some who might argue that it is suspect but it is what it is. With boot fitting there is no standard. And yet we engage in these discussions and everyone seems to have their own take on things. Masterfit is attempting to establish a standard. So is Mr. Harb as are bootfitters who read this site and work around the nation or the world. But as yet, I could argue with myself as how to proceed with each individual that comes into the shop for assistance with his boot. What aspect of modification should be stressed? If he says money is no object that is different than a fellow with a $10 budget. A dialog here might serve well to establish a common language and discern the relevant elements that contribute to better alignment.

How we go about it is the key. If we are more efficient wouldn't we be working less, have more energy at the end of the day and/or ski faster if that is the goal? I look for the purity of the carve. Speed is secondary to me. Others want to get to the finish line and couldn't care about the aesthetic appeal of their form or technique. In that regard I like the Rahlves v. Miller point made above. But as I suggested earlier, doesn't it beg the question if Bode was aligned better, even if this is just a rhetorical point, wouldn't it be likely that he'd ski faster and then take it up that notch where the stresses of the sport test his limits and not the stresses of the equipment.

One other point that JDISTEFA above asked. If you ask 50 of your best ski buddies/instructors, skilled skiers, which leg do you ski better off of I'd bet the number who would pick one leg over the other would probably be close to all of them. So, in that light, I'd say that it is the rare skier, pro even, that could not benefit from an alignment modification. They are all trying to change things to their boots so that alone answers the question. They are all misaligned and seeking that perfect place. Don't confuse the equipment with the skier!

EJ
MotiveForcer
post #29 of 101

And neutral is where you're fast...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAS29 View Post
Bode is a master of finding Neutral... Daron wasn't
...or, to put it another way, as Steve Nyman said at the 2007 Birds of Prey DH, "It ain't a beauty contest."
post #30 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...or, to put it another way, as Steve Nyman said at the 2007 Birds of Prey DH, "It ain't a beauty contest."
At the same time, Bode's skiing is so very beautiful.

Why just think... If Bode skied like HH, then Bode would ski like HH. Yawn.
--
Marty
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