or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › This is why I like rockered/reverse sidecut skis...Power "slarve" sequence
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

This is why I like rockered/reverse sidecut skis...Power "slarve" sequence

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Took these frame grabs out of a video that a buddy of mine shot of me last year. Thought it could be a useful visual to show what can be done on a pair of reverse sidecut / rockered skis.

Getting down low at speed and "slarving" (?) like this is so much fun and pretty hard to do (though not impossible...nothing is impossible IMO) on a pair of traditional pow skis.

Skipped a few frame grabs....if I included them all in this sequence there'd be like a 100 photos!

Skis are 192cm DPS Lotus 138's. (which I have since sold and replaced with a pair of PMGear Lhasa Pows for greater versatility).

0


1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


11


12


13


14


15


16


17


18


19


20


21


22


23


24


25




Here's the full vid clip, it's obviously slowed down a bit and is bit 'tongue in cheek'

http://www.vimeo.com/1539520
post #2 of 26
that looked pretty fun.
post #3 of 26
Butter!!!
post #4 of 26
Awesome! Like a water skier changing direction.

Ever feel the acceleration when putting more of your weight on the front of the ski? Like a power boat planing on the water.

Michael
post #5 of 26
Meh. Backseat.



post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Butter!!!
Butt butter maybe. A** pivot. A great emergency move when necessary or a fun one when you got a film crew goading you on for a good pic.
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarryZ View Post
A** pivot.
that's a new one
post #8 of 26
I don't get it, what were you trying to slow down so much for? Don't you like going fast?
post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGGOT View Post
I don't get it, what were you trying to slow down so much for? Don't you like going fast?
Going fast scares me...it makes me cry
post #10 of 26
Looks just like my O'Brien coming across the wake!
post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Looks just like my O'Brien coming across the wake!
That is exactley what I was thinking.
post #12 of 26
sound effects in the video are kinda scary...

Question: When skiing them, what sort of fore-aft weighting do you do? Can you stay forward in your boots and still have the tips stay afloat like that?
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDork View Post
sound effects in the video are kinda scary...
haha yeah, my buddy put it together as a joke. Obviously this was a set-up turn as the photographer you can see in those stills wanted me to turn in a certain spot. I unfortunately I turned in a spot that was a bit later than where he was focusing and just as I'm finishing the 'turn', you can hear a voice in the background yell "you're late!!!"...and then I start yelling "Nooo!" and throwing my arms up....in slo-mo it sounds pretty funny.

Quote:
Question: When skiing them, what sort of fore-aft weighting do you do? Can you stay forward in your boots and still have the tips stay afloat like that?
You can pretty much weight anywhere you want, which is why I like skis like this so much in pow. A neutral centered stance works really well, but if you want to drive the tips it's no problem at all to do so. And as you can see in the sequence, it's really easy to get backseat as well without getting in trouble
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
You can pretty much weight anywhere you want, which is why I like skis like this so much in pow. A neutral centered stance works really well, but if you want to drive the tips it's no problem at all to do so. And as you can see in the sequence, it's really easy to get backseat as well without getting in trouble
Wow - that sounds like my kind of ski! Thanks.
post #15 of 26
I installed a BBCode hack that lets Vimeo videos be embedded, and I went for a larger size. What do you think? The code is
[vimeo]1539520[/vimeo ] without the space in the last bracket
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
. What do you think?
GRRRRRRRRRRRR!
post #17 of 26
2 more questions:

1) How are those skis on regular groomed surface?

2) Do you think they would be good turners in east coast tree pow?
post #18 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDork View Post
2 more questions:

1) How are those skis on regular groomed surface?

2) Do you think they would be good turners in east coast tree pow?

1 - On a groomed surface....they're ok, but really not all that great. A little background:

My first rockered ski was the original Volant Spatula which was awesome in pow, but on traverses and on the groomers, they were absolutely terrifying unless you your weight on this one little tiny spot of edge just in front of your boot. With the reverse sidecut, on groomers one ski always wanted to go one way and the other ski wanted to go the other way, so you always had to maintain concentration to keep your weight in juuuust that right spot to keep them under your feet and sliding around back to the left.

So wanting a rockered type ski that was a bit better on the groomers and more versatile, I went for the 192 DPS Lotus 138. Rocker in the tips, no camber underfoot, and just a hint of sidecut...like 1 mm. Groomer performance was MUCH improved over the Spatula. Definitely nowhere near as terrifying and you could definitely relax a bit on the way back to the lift. By no means however are you seeking out groomers and you can not 'carve' in a traditional sense on them. I was still blown away by the pow performance, but would still only bring them out on deep pow days so I really wasn't using them all that much. So after spending a few years on these we at PMgear started developing the Lhasa Pow that would be a further continuation of my quest of keeping pow perforance really high with rockered tips and no camber, but still improving on groomer/everywhere else performance with a flatter tail and a more sidecut underfoot.

so after spending some time on some prototype Lhasa Pows last season, I ditched (sold) the Lotus 138's, and will be on the Lhasa Pows in place of them this season. I expect i'll be bringing out the Lhasa Pows a lot more this season on days when I wouldn't consider the 138's as they're the most versatile pow specific rockered ski I've been on. Now, cruising back to the lift can actually be fun rather than merely survival. Stoked on how they turned out.

2 - Sure i bet they would as you can pivot and slash and really make them do anything you want, but they might be a little long for east coast trees. i don't think DPS makes them any shorter than 192. They do ski a lot shorter than 192 due to the rockered tips, but just given the tightness of eastern trees, you might just be more wary of getting the tips & tails suck on all those little branches, saplngs, etc.
post #19 of 26
I don't see Lahasa Pow on the PMGear website. Is this still a prototype?
What kind of dimensions?
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
1 - On a groomed surface....they're ok, but really not all that great. A little background:

My first rockered ski was the original Volant Spatula which was awesome in pow, but on traverses and on the groomers, they were absolutely terrifying unless you your weight on this one little tiny spot of edge just in front of your boot. With the reverse sidecut, on groomers one ski always wanted to go one way and the other ski wanted to go the other way, so you always had to maintain concentration to keep your weight in juuuust that right spot to keep them under your feet and sliding around back to the left.

So wanting a rockered type ski that was a bit better on the groomers and more versatile, I went for the 192 DPS Lotus 138. Rocker in the tips, no camber underfoot, and just a hint of sidecut...like 1 mm. Groomer performance was MUCH improved over the Spatula. Definitely nowhere near as terrifying and you could definitely relax a bit on the way back to the lift. By no means however are you seeking out groomers and you can not 'carve' in a traditional sense on them. I was still blown away by the pow performance, but would still only bring them out on deep pow days so I really wasn't using them all that much. So after spending a few years on these we at PMgear started developing the Lhasa Pow that would be a further continuation of my quest of keeping pow perforance really high with rockered tips and no camber, but still improving on groomer/everywhere else performance with a flatter tail and a more sidecut underfoot.

so after spending some time on some prototype Lhasa Pows last season, I ditched (sold) the Lotus 138's, and will be on the Lhasa Pows in place of them this season. I expect i'll be bringing out the Lhasa Pows a lot more this season on days when I wouldn't consider the 138's as they're the most versatile pow specific rockered ski I've been on. Now, cruising back to the lift can actually be fun rather than merely survival. Stoked on how they turned out.

2 - Sure i bet they would as you can pivot and slash and really make them do anything you want, but they might be a little long for east coast trees. i don't think DPS makes them any shorter than 192. They do ski a lot shorter than 192 due to the rockered tips, but just given the tightness of eastern trees, you might just be more wary of getting the tips & tails suck on all those little branches, saplngs, etc.

Thats a great summary and just what I was looking for. I've been thinking something like these would be good in the trees due to their quick turning performance. I had purchased a pair of 160 Phantom Crystal ships a few years ago thinking the shorter length would be good for the trees but the purchase was a mistake because I can't ski them without staying in th back seat, they just want to nosedive on me if I even stay centered, let alone any forward pressure. Thats just wrong (to me) so I've been looking for something to replace them with. I'm sorta big, so a 192 isn't outside of the realm of possibility. I just with there was some day to demo a pair, or any rockered ski for that matter. Prolly not though. Thanks.
post #21 of 26
FWIW, the trick to the Crystal Ships is the mount point. There's a pretty big "suggested" range. Closer to the middle of that I'd dive 'em - especially with those low profile tips. Just forward of the back of range & life is much, much smoother for a bigger person.

The newer rockered skis are way cooler - but IMO those funky Crystal Ships can be a hoot. They changed my view of soft snow fun for sure. If you already have them, try moving the bindings back in the range just for yuks. If you can't find the needed info on that, I can go dredge it up... Not that I'm suggesting skipping the rockered thing...

As for demoing - I suspect there will be no shortage of Pontoons demo-able this year (at least out west. maybe even in the east?). Grab some on a soft snow day...

EDIT: the suggested range is boot center 85-90 cm from tip for the 160s. If you are bigger (and/or have big boots) try something in the 89, give or take a tiny bit, range.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDork View Post
... I just wish there was some day to demo a pair, or any rockered ski for that matter. Prolly not though. Thanks.
There is a DPS demo center here in Stowe, VT. They have Lotus 120's and 138's as well as Waillers. (shop's name is iRide).

I demo lot's of fat stuff, some of it is rockered, some even reverse/ reverse.

so, demos are available any day you want to try some.

There is normally a very large demo day at Cannon Mt, NH right at the start of the season, historically it has been held on a Thursday, the day before the mountain 'opens' for the season. Every major brand is represented, it's the largest single day consumer demo I've seen. I'd be willing to bet K2 will have some Pontoons, Volkl will have Kuros and Chopstix, etc.
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post
FWIW, the trick to the Crystal Ships is the mount point. There's a pretty big "suggested" range. Closer to the middle of that I'd dive 'em - especially with those low profile tips. Just forward of the back of range & life is much, much smoother for a bigger person.

The newer rockered skis are way cooler - but IMO those funky Crystal Ships can be a hoot. They changed my view of soft snow fun for sure. If you already have them, try moving the bindings back in the range just for yuks. If you can't find the needed info on that, I can go dredge it up... Not that I'm suggesting skipping the rockered thing...

As for demoing - I suspect there will be no shortage of Pontoons demo-able this year (at least out west. maybe even in the east?). Grab some on a soft snow day...

EDIT: the suggested range is boot center 85-90 cm from tip for the 160s. If you are bigger (and/or have big boots) try something in the 89, give or take a tiny bit, range.
Wow - this is VERY intersting news. I prolly screwed up on the mount.

I had a local shop (Peak) at Killington mount them, and based on a guy over on TGR who has them recommendation I told them to center the boot sole on the center of gravity of the ski. Thats most likely too far forward. Thanks a lot for your help. I'll get them remounted back and see what happens.
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
There is a DPS demo center here in Stowe, VT. They have Lotus 120's and 138's as well as Waillers. (shop's name is iRide).

I demo lot's of fat stuff, some of it is rockered, some even reverse/ reverse.

so, demos are available any day you want to try some.

There is normally a very large demo day at Cannon Mt, NH right at the start of the season, historically it has been held on a Thursday, the day before the mountain 'opens' for the season. Every major brand is represented, it's the largest single day consumer demo I've seen. I'd be willing to bet K2 will have some Pontoons, Volkl will have Kuros and Chopstix, etc.

Thats pretty cool. Thanks.

Any idea if there's something near Killington?
post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
I don't see Lahasa Pow on the PMGear website. Is this still a prototype?
What kind of dimensions?
It's not on the website yet.....but will be soon.

Prototyping was done all last winter. I have a pair in my garage that are pretty much the final specs ('cept for topsheet) if you ever want to come and take a peek at them.

Final dimensions are:
186 cm 140-112-120 ~35m turn radius
196 cm 140-112-120

Rockered tip, no camber, flat tail (no rocker), slight twin tip.
We can build in a little bit of camber underfoot as well by request.

Here are the topsheets:
post #26 of 26
Damn Lahsa Pows, mocking me, making me feel dissatisfied with my quiver! Reminding me of my financial woes!

Well, when I win the lottery I will be stomping them into the snow, and show them who's boss!

So how do they smear compared to Spatulas?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › This is why I like rockered/reverse sidecut skis...Power "slarve" sequence