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China gymnasts???

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Do you think the IOC will have the guts to yank medals if enough evidence mounts that the Chinese gymnasts are under 16?

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/2008...derage_chinese

Some how I think we might be heading to the era of double-think. 2+2=5 13+1=16.
post #2 of 26
Thread Starter 
post #3 of 26
IMHO it will be tough to prove. The Chinese government is in a position to falsify any documentation to prove otherwise.

The only thing left would be to cut off a limb and count the rings.
post #4 of 26
Have rules and enforce them equally... or don't have rules.
post #5 of 26
Read a story last week about the E German's use of steroids back in the 80s. They even turned some women into men.

I guess many suspect corruption like this but it's so blatant and rampant in some countries. Clearly the Chinese are willing to do anything to make the show look good for them - the girl lipsynching because the real singer wasn't cute enough, fake fireworks, now underage gymnasts ...

Kind of not paying so much attention to it this time around actually because of the lack of integrity ... no wonder corporate America loves doing business over there ... fake it til you make it; so long as it looks good and sells
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Have rules and enforce them equally... or don't have rules.
Brilliant! Or not? Ditch those rules for certain countries. After all, how bad can gymnastics be for 10 year old Chinese girls compared to where else they'd be working otherwise?

In the end, regardless of being "iced" due to questinable TV scheduling the much more experienced American girls choked IMO. Not that I'm any better, I choke all the time, but man up and admit that I just choked.
post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
Brilliant! Or not? Ditch those rules for certain countries. After all, how bad can gymnastics be for 10 year old Chinese girls compared to where else they'd be working otherwise?

In the end, regardless of being "iced" due to questinable TV scheduling the much more experienced American girls choked IMO. Not that I'm any better, I choke all the time, but man up and admit that I just choked.
Don't think it's about choking. Who came in second, be it the USA or any other country, is immaterial. So is that the Chinese won the team event gold. They could have been last and the issue would be the same.

The point is, it's a 1984 world of double-think. Make up any impression of what the you want the world to be and pretend it long enough and it's true. Go back and read 1984 again (you did have to read it in high school before Catcher In the Rye and after A Separate Peace, didn't you?) The whole Chinese Olympic thing is very very 1984.
post #8 of 26
My point which seems to have
is that those Chinese girls may be better off and better cared for enduring the abuses of internal competition training than they would be otherwise.
post #9 of 26

....Don't have to travel that far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by learn2turn View Post
Don't think it's about choking. Who came in second, be it the USA or any other country, is immaterial. So is that the Chinese one the team event gold. They could have been last and the issue would be the same.

The point is, it's a 1984 world of double-think. Make up any impression of what the you want the world to be and pretend it long enough and it's true. Go back and read 1984 again (you did have to read it in high school before Catcher In the Rye and after A Separate Peace, didn't you?) The whole Chinese Olympic thing is very very 1984.
Wish our political leaders would be on as higher ground....as our top athletes.
My guess is that 1984 isn't on the Fiction shelves in Chinese bookstores....
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
My point which seems to have
is that those Chinese girls may be better off and better cared for enduring the abuses of internal competition training than they would be otherwise.
I understand what your saying, but that is a VERY slippery slope...

This is the Olympics, enforce the damned rules! Not wanting to "insult the host country" is absolutely ridiculous. IF they put athletes into competition who aren't eligible to compete then the IOC needs to stand up and say "this is unacceptable". I'll bet my bottom dollar that if the US put Marion Jones on the Track and Field team, with the explanation that 'all those media reports of PED usage are a mistake, pay no attention...' we would see some IOC action.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
post #12 of 26
If the Chinese owed us trillions of dollars instead of the other way around maybe more people with political pull would stand up and make a stink about it. But, since they hold all the cards/notes I suspect we'll just have to play by their rules (or lack of them) on their court.

Kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1dKw...eature=related
post #13 of 26
The top two USA girls certainly did not choke in yesterday's all around with Nastia winning the gold and Shawn Johnson winning the silver...DESPITE what I consider bias judging not in their favor. It was fun to watch it with my daughter who is heavily into gymnastics and to her it was like the Super Bowl.

As for the team competition the only one who choked was
Alicia Sacramone who fell on the beam AND floor potentially costing them the gold...it would have at least been close if she had stayed upright. They still got silver though.
post #14 of 26
Ok little test I want you to guess the age of these people in the next images

this pictures the boy and the girl on the far left


these 2


The 3 boys on the left and girl lower right


How about these 2?


How about these 4?


How about the guy on the left?


How about these 2?


How about the girl on the left?


ok just to let you know all these are family members or close friends of mine.. Some pictures are recent some are old some are very old. but I am curious to see what the collective thinks. BTW there are bears and maggots in the pictures if you got in there its because you look young for your age

I know when each picture was taken and curious how close you guys can come, because I feel your mistakeing shorter growth spurt stunted chinese(who already look younger) for people who are actually of legal age.
post #15 of 26
Huh, before I saw this thread I wasn't even aware of the 16 year old rule. I remember the days of 12- 14 year old gymnasts in the Olympics.

Personally I think it's kind of stupid, because the competition itself has little to do with the physical impact on the athletes. The training is the real impact, and if you have any awareness of competitive gymnastics, the training starts many years before the kids are close to the level of international competitions. The rule only serves to prolong the training, thereby increasing the sum total of impact on the athletes, and prevents these kids from getting the competition phase of their lives over with, and getting on with their post competitive lives.

As for the Chinese cheating by having younger athletes showing how much better they are, I really couldn't care less, if they weren't so successful, and they weren't from a world power, no one would be making a big deal about it.
post #16 of 26
1. The rules are the rules. End of story.

2. A US kid who scores big is going to take the medal and make a few million on endorsements like Wheaties box stuff.

3. A kid from China who scores a medal will get what? A coaching job for life?

post #17 of 26
Bwpa, you're kind of missing the point.

People don't think the Chinese gymnasts were too young because they LOOK young, they think they are too young because their reported ages in previous competitions show that their not old enough to compete.

Maybe this analogy will help:

Imagine if you met a nice young girl who tells you shes 18. You bump into her a few weeks later, she says shes 18...

A few weeks later you throw a house party (with alcohol), same chicka is there, but now she tells she is 21 while asking for a drink... do you believe her?
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Bwpa, you're kind of missing the point.

People don't think the Chinese gymnasts were too young because they LOOK young, they think they are too young because their reported ages in previous competitions show that their not old enough to compete.

Maybe this analogy will help:

Imagine if you met a nice young girl who tells you shes 18. You bump into her a few weeks later, she says shes 18...

A few weeks later you throw a house party (with alcohol), same chicka is there, but now she tells she is 21 while asking for a drink... do you believe her?
no I wouldnt believe her.

Yes I know the ages were published in news paper heck even goverment news papers before the event. I actually think they cheated but the best debators try to fight for the side they dont believe in.

Also how many times has false information been written in a news paper before?
post #19 of 26
well the other thing is they look young compared with the other girls there. I agree there's variability everywhere. But it seems that the younger looking ones are also some of the best performers too. I dunno ... might be a connection but hard to say.

I too thought that there used to be like 13 yos or whatever competing right? But like someone said, we're not comparing our 13 yos vs theirs because we abide the rules ....
post #20 of 26
Actually sounds like her own "bio dimed her" .... she should be DQ'ed.

It's like the "12 year old" kids they bring up from SA to play Little League when they are like sixteen.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
I'll bet my bottom dollar that if the US put Marion Jones on the Track and Field team, with the explanation that 'all those media reports of PED usage are a mistake, pay no attention...' we would see some IOC action.
This is a great point on many levels. If the Marion Jones scenerio holds true they will strip those gold medals when more evidence comes to light.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
This is a great point on many levels. If the Marion Jones scenerio holds true they will strip those gold medals when more evidence comes to light.
not sure which you mean she lost her medals in 2007...
post #23 of 26
So how is it the AMerican lost to the (young looking Chinese but it was a tie?

Link
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ct55 View Post
So how is it the AMerican lost to the (young looking Chinese but it was a tie?

Link

CT, I believe that in the event of a tie they look to the difficulty rating (has happened in other gymnastic events)
post #25 of 26
Interesting ... but of course most of the analysts thought Nastia won. She's Russian anyway right?

Whatever - hometown discount
post #26 of 26
The IOC is finally going to take a deeper dive in to the age documentation (or lack of it) that verifies the ages to the members of the Chinese womens' bymnastics team.

BEIJING (AP) -- The International Olympic Committee said Friday it had asked gymnastics officials to investigate whether the Chinese women's gymnastics team that won the gold medal had underage athletes, saying "more information has come to light."
"We've asked the gymnastics federation to look into it further," IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said. "If there is a question mark and we have a concern, which we do, we ask the governing body of any sport to look into it."

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastic...source=rss&cid=
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