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Quiver- add to or overhaul?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I just moved to Summit county CO and plan to get involved with masters racing for the first time this year.

Current skis:
186 Fischer Misfits- new (x14 bindings)
185 Solomon Scream Hot 10 Ps- fair (used ~45 days)

Plan to see Jeff Bergeron next month about replacing my Solomon X Wave 8 Free (90 flex) boots that fit ok, but are a bit too loose in the heel.

I know that I will need some skis I can train & race on, but am not sure which ones I should be looking at. I want something that with good hard snow performance that will allowing me to improve my carving, but am concerned about getting something too stiff.

Jeff thought that a cheater GS ski and race stock SL skis would be the way to go mentioning the Atomic 9 16 as a cheater and Blizzard as an easy SL ski. Others have suggested rec/retail race skis. I realize that demoing is probably the way to go, but there are some swaps and sales here before the season starts, so I may make an educated guess if I see a good deal (and sell it later if it is the wrong ski for me). More thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

ME: 6' 3'' 190 lbs, 41 y.o., 13.5 street shoe (US), above average fitness/athlete, skied ~24 out of the last 30 years, ~20 days a year as a teenager, less as an adult until last year where I got in about 60 days which I expect to do this year also. Better soft snow & off piste skier than hard snow carver.

Like the Atuas/Misfits I skied the second half of last year, but am considering replacing with something wider for powder days and something narrower for other free skiing days. My reason for doing this is that the Atua/Misfit skied short and did not seem to have a ton of float for me (mounted between Big Mnt & sidewall marks) although I liked it in almost all soft snow conditions except certain types of deep powder. Secondarily, I figure getting a narrower ski might be better for the bumps and other hasn't snowed much conditions.

Questions-
1. Which SL ski?
2. Which GS ski?
3. Should I be considering a ski like the Head Supershape, Fischer Progressor or Fischer RX8 Fire as a race ski that I might also use for free skiing when it hasn't snowed much.
4. Should I keep the fun and manueverable Atua/Misfit or should I consider replacing it with something bigger (i.e. Watea 101, Scott P4, Gotama) and something narrower (Watea 84?)?

Thanks,
Matt
post #2 of 16
Other's will likely chime in, but for starters I would say that instead of Head Super shape and Fisher RX8/progressor, you should step up to Head SS Speed, or Fischer WC; both these skis are fun to free ski on if you now what to do with them.
post #3 of 16
Take at look at the Dynastar Speed Omeglass or Speed Omeglass Comp for the SL ski. I don't even get 15 days on real mountains in a year, so I have had the same pair for a few years and they have been great. I highly recommend them
post #4 of 16
Wow, good case study! Did you want all those skis or are you just looking for a frontside and powder ski?

So many to choose from and a lot will boil down to personal taste, but I'd through in the Head SS Magnum, Head speed, Progressor, (forget the rx8) and the new 4x4 is a must to checkout and even the LTD. Nordica speed machine mach 3 (not power), Stockli stormrider or Rotor as well. Like I Said, lots to choose from

Powder? Lots to choose from again. I like 135-140 tip 105-110 waist and 120 ish tail. Gots, Bro Lhasa's, Thugs, Head 103,katana, line 100's
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 

Quiver of 3 or 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Wow, good case study! Did you want all those skis or are you just looking for a frontside and powder ski?
Not counting the Salomons that I will use as an early season rock ski (and possibly as a touring ski later on), I plan to end up with either 3 or 4 skis (SL, GS, and 1 or 2 freeride skis). If I limit it to 1 freeride ski, I will probably ski the Misfits as the Atuas were very versatile for me last year and I enjoyed them a lot.

However, if the SL or GS ski is versatile enough that I can use it as an off piste/not much snow lately ski, then maybe I would swap out the Misfit for something bigger/widder. I also would likely dump the Misfit if I went for the 2 freeride ski approach as I would get one bigger and one narrower.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

Can I handle a race ski?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
Other's will likely chime in, but for starters I would say that instead of Head Super shape and Fisher RX8/progressor, you should step up to Head SS Speed, or Fischer WC; both these skis are fun to free ski on if you now what to do with them.
I guess the big question is if I know what to do with them?? Overall, I consider myself a much better soft snow and off piste skier than hard snow carver. I haven't run a gate in 20 years and have had no race training. OTOH, I have been able to handle most black runs for years and improved quite a bit last year with double the days on snow (60) than I had ever gotten before. With regular race coaching/training this year, I expect that I will improve my carving ability a lot, but want to make sure I don't get a ski that is too hard/stiff for me to learn on.

Which potential skis (Head SS Speed, Fischer WC, Dynastar Omeglass, Blizzard, Atomic 9 16, etc.) will be high performing enough to race on while still being easy enough for a beginning racer to bend and carve?

Also, I am a bit confused about the naming of the Heads. Maybe I am looking at different years, or maybe it is different models...on the Head site I get this:


WORLDCUP iSL
racing


WORLDCUP iSPEED
racing


iSUPERSHAPE MAGNUM
groomed


iSUPERSHAPE SPEED
racing


iSUPERSHAPE
racing

On google, I get this when I do a search of Head Supershape

Shopping results for Head Supershape '07 Head Worldcup i.Supershape Expert Skis $479.00 - Al's Ski Equipment Barn '08 Head Supershape SW w/Head FF 14 Plus $899.00 - Al's Ski Equipment Barn Head 2008 I.Supershape SW CP13 skis 175 cm $387.51 - SkiUniverse.com

Which ones should I be looking for? As I am buying multiple skis which may or may not be perfect for me, I will likely be going for last years models or something that it lightly used. What would be a good deal on new '07 Fischer RC4 WC SL or '06 with 5 days on them?

Thanks,
Matt
post #7 of 16
Looking at new skis I'd check out the Head WC iSL (that's the consumer ski) and the WC iSpeed (that's the cheater GS). Head uses the RD (race dept.) designation for real deal race skis.

If you are looking lightly used, any SL ski will work, go with the best condition ski. Find a 'cheater' GS or a consumer ski, avoid race stock skis for GS.

I'd suggest avoiding the 'versatile race-like' category of skis, this would be Fischer's RX, Head's Supershape, etc. They are great skis for what they are... all mountain skis with some grip. You will be better off with true 'race' skis, you'll be best with consumer skis not race stock skis, they will be more 'versatile' and a bit more user friendly, but still have some guts when pushed hard.
post #8 of 16
based on your response, go with what ^ said. Thanks for clarifying.
post #9 of 16
Since you are getting both a GS and a SL, if you can get the ski up on edge and bent while not skiing sideways, then go for the WorldCup i speed as you GS ski; it has a longer radius than the SS Speed (which is sort of a compromise between GS and SL. At 190 lbs you should be able to flex them without problem.
post #10 of 16
Hi MEfree30. I agree with many of the posters that you will need both a SL and cheater GS. I am enjoying the Atomic SL12PB, the consumer model not the race stock, and the LT12 GS skis. I have found them user friendly enough for me to begin learning proper racing fundamentals without punishing me to much for many small mistakes.There are many good brands available. Try and demo the first of this new season. Also ask the coaches of your Masters Program for recommendations. I will be asking them myself this fall. I will also be looking for 1 or 2 freeskiing models, as the race skis are useable but not ideal off the groomed slopes.The search is half the fun.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 

Cheater GS, but which SL?

Concensus so far seems to be a cheater GS ski, but am still not sure if I should go for a rec SL or more of a full on race version...suggestions for both categories still appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
might still have a chance to pick up some 191 Scott P4s for $300...would likely look for something narrower than my 96 mm Misfits to complement...
post #13 of 16
How much racing are you really going to do? And will it be SL, GS, or both?

I just question, being in Summit County, how much you are going to race versus free ski. I'm also looking for a narrow race based ski to ski in CO, but I also recognize that I spend 80% of my time off-piste. So, while I want a race ski to teach me more about my skiing, particularly on the steeps, I'm looking for one ski, not two -- probably a cheater GS ski. Folk in the Head Supershape Magnum thread suggested that ski, which might work well for you.

I'd also get a mid-fat for most of your skiing. I'm skiing on an AC4 for that, 84 under waist. I also have a pair of Mantra's for softer deeper conditions. Lots of choices here, so it depends on what you like in a ski.

Mike
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post
How much racing are you really going to do? And will it be SL, GS, or both?

I just question, being in Summit County, how much you are going to race versus free ski. I'm also looking for a narrow race based ski to ski in CO, but I also recognize that I spend 80% of my time off-piste. So, while I want a race ski to teach me more about my skiing, particularly on the steeps, I'm looking for one ski, not two -- probably a cheater GS ski. Folk in the Head Supershape Magnum thread suggested that ski, which might work well for you.

I'd also get a mid-fat for most of your skiing. I'm skiing on an AC4 for that, 84 under waist. I also have a pair of Mantra's for softer deeper conditions. Lots of choices here, so it depends on what you like in a ski.

Mike
How much racing I do will likely depend on how good the snow is (less snow=more racing) and how much I get into the racing...I certainly don't plan on skipping powder on the backside to race train, but the mid-week training at Copper is the in the afternoons, so if I get into the racing, I could still train after hitting powder in the a.m. They train SL some days and GS others...while I see some programs will train GS on SL skis, I doubt I will be good enough to run an SL course on cheater GS skis, so I will likely get both (probably used).

I think a mid-fat is probably a good idea and was giving consideration to the Watea 84, but have seen a decent number of posters who thought the 94 had better hard snow grip. I really like my 186 cm Atuas/Misfits for most conditions, but think something narrower might be better for hard bumps/ice and something wider/longer for the deep days. One of the reasons for the post is that I am not familar with most of the resorts around here, so I am not exactly sure what to expect as far as conditions go.
post #15 of 16
Unless it is a really bad snow year, you can expect pretty soft snow for most of the year. What people in Colorado call hardpack folks back East or in Europe would call packed powder, soft, or silky. We just don't usually get any substantial warming that will result in solid conditions until Spring. (March). And even then, the freeze/thaw cycle is such that you wait for it to thaw (say 10 AM or so) and ski with a wider ski to harvest the corn.

As to mid-fats, you've got a ski in the 90's, why don't you look for something in the 70's or 80's? There no problem with finding tons of mid-fats to demo, so I'd probably counsel you to demo. Of course, the big ski sales of past year's goods start in September, so you might find a deal too good to pass up -- but that's getting harder and harder to find.

Mike
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Looks like overhaul...since starting this thread, I picked up 191 Scott P4s (108 mm waist) and 184 Fischer Watea 84s. Although I really liked the Atuas last season, I am going to keep the Misfits on the sideline and likely will sell them (assuming I am happy with the 84s and P4s).

Still have to decide on bindings for the new skis. I have some X14s from the Atuas, but am giving some consideration to railflex for both to give the Scotts more versatility (at the expense of stand height) as some have said that the P4s perform quite differently depending on mount point with back being better for deep days and forward being better otherwise. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the suggestions on race skis...any others? I know demoing is best, but am leaning towards getting some used pairs if I see the right deal at the swaps before the season.

Matt
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