Inline skaters who also ski - Page 3

Hey, if Pabst Blue Ribbon can reinvent itself, why not skating? At least skating is actually good (and good for you)! The skating industry needs some creative/guerilla marketing!

I have 80mm wheels on my current skates, and they've seemed more than adequate for everything so far, but I've come across some roads on which I might want to try and do more distance skating, long stretches on flats and up and down hills, with some rougher surfaces, and I'm wondering if bigger wheels might not be a bad idea. Maybe not 100mm now, but something bigger than 80. Mid-high 80's, 90, to better handle "off piste"?

The slippery slope of the quiver. It has begun, if only in thought at this point. ;-)

I've been using size 11 Rollerblade Spirit Blade XT skates for a couple of years. 80mm wheels, molded (non-removable) wheel Picked em up really cheap at REI outlet, and they've been great, but I've been skating a lot lately and the outer plastic shell has cracked at the clamp at the top on both skates. The crack has been getting bigger over time, and I don't think it'll be long now before it goes.

I don't skate indoors, mostly road skating and at an outdoor (asphalt) skating rink of sorts at a local park. Going forward looking to do more/longer distance road skating.

Anyone have any recommendations on for make/model of a new pair of inline skates, and whether I should stick with 80mm wheels for now? I have a wide forefoot, high arch, narrow heel if that makes any difference.

TIA for any advice.

One more thing ... I have rather large ankle bones (medial malleolus), and since you can't exactly punch a skate frame I had to cut it out a bit to make an accommodation as the bone was hitting right on the edge of the frame.

This lessened/weakened the overall amount of frame, and may have contributed to the cracking described above. Regardless, I either need skates with frames that don't rub my ankle bones, or I'll have to do something similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 

One more thing ... I have rather large ankle bones (medial malleolus), and since you can't exactly punch a skate frame I had to cut it out a bit to make an accommodation as the bone was hitting right on the edge of the frame.

 

This lessened/weakened the overall amount of frame, and may have contributed to the cracking described above. Regardless, I either need skates with frames that don't rub my ankle bones, or I'll have to do something similar.

I was trying on a bunch of different skates yesterday and found that that the Rollerblades brand, specifically the Spiritblade model rubbed my ankle bone, however none of the K2 models I tried out did.  I've read the K2 models are wider and may not have any hard plastic right where the ankle bone is.  I suggest you go and see if you can try to find some K2 skates to try on.  One thing to remember with the K2 Skates is that they fit a bit larger than the Rollerblades skates.  A size 10 Rollberblades brand model skate felt too snug on me, but a size 9 K2 skate was a perfect fit for my feet.  In fact, the size of the K2 skates I picked up are about the same as my ski boots.

I ended up going to a local ski/skate shop for my skates and walked out with a pair of 2010 K2 Eco Etu's they had on clearance.  After the discount, the price on them was close to what a new set of Rollerblades Spiritblades would cost and the K2 Eco's are a higher end model with 84mm wheels.  If you shop around a bit, you may find some good sales on older models that would be better for your feet than the Rollerblades you have.

That ^^^ is great info and advice; just what I was hoping for.

That K2 model looks interesting - hopefully I can find a place in the SF Bay Area where I can try them (and/or other K2 models) on...

Many thanks!

I'm not a fan of frames that are non-adjustable^  laterally.    

  K2 does however have some really solid skates right now - the Mach 90 (and Celena 90 if you don't mind the colors) are really good value imo, and the cuffs are high enough that you can have room at the ankle without compromising edge control.     K2 models will in general fit longer toes than RB ones, but when you size K2 models small they tend to bash down across the instep area.   Out of the box, K2 has better balance and edge feel, imo - RB adjustable frames do best after some fiddling.

The RB comparable model is the Crossfire; also check the Fusion urban skate  (smaller wheels and funky cuff geometry but completely different front-to-back-balance that is almost as good as the old-school RB Lightnings).      RB womens models will in general have narrower heels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch 

I'm not a fan of frames that are non-adjustable^  laterally.   

Can you explain exactly what that ^^ capability gives you, and how to use it/set it up to best advantage?

I did a dealer locator search for K2 skates and there were two in San Francisco (Daly City, actually) that came up, Big 5 and Sports Authority, and they happened to be across the street from each other, so I got by yesterday for a look. Big 5 is a great place to buy shoes for cheap, but they had a very limited selection of low end skates, so that was a dead end. The Sports Authority store is huge - approaching the size of a football field - and had a better skating section than any other store I've come across, but they still had only two models of inline skates I could try...

The Spiritblades were a newer version of what I have. The construction looked/felt cheaper, but otherwise was pretty similar. The outer, hard plastic frame did dig into my ankle bones, just like my skates now that I had to cut out with a jigsaw. The K2 EXO's also felt more cheaply made than what I have now. The soft boot was a lot softer than the Rollerblade's, and the outer plastic frame was more minimal and didn't seem to provide as much support. It didn't, however, dig into my ankle bones. I might have been able to drop down to a 10.5, particularly in the K2's, but  11's were the only size they had that was close to what I need. I skated around the store on each pair of skates, and also with one of each pair on. Aside from the frame/ankle bone issue, (which is a big practical problem), I liked the fit and feel of the K2's better, and it seems my experience is in line with both Tuna and Mephit's comments earlier here in the thread.

There's a store in San Francisco called "Skates On Haight", but they don't really have any inline skates there - pretty much all skateboard stuff. They do have a warehouse in the city for their online business skates.com, and you can call and go to the warehouse to buy/pick up stuff, but you can't go in and try things on, as they don't have a retail permit. They do sell a lot more skate models, but I need to find a place where I can at least try skates on, and it would be a lot better to demo, even if that was only skating around inside like I did at Sports Authority.

Bottom line? Skating is really a fringe sport these days, and it's a challenge to find anyplace that carries anything. I'll just keep skating what I've got till it falls apart, and keep looking for retailers that carry some of the better quality models mentioned here, and also at thrift stores and on CL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 

 

Can you explain exactly what that ^^ capability gives you, and how to use it/set it up to best advantage?

Primarily it allows you to set up your skate so that the skate is on the center edge (wheels vertical) when /both/ a) the ankle is in a neutral position b) the hip is in a position to center upper body weight on top of the skate (static balance).  This allows maximum gliding distance (and best stability when heel-braking, T-stopping, scissoring).      

Secondary benefits include

- ability to compensate for abducted 'neutral' stance so that skates glide forward  (this changes with fitness level during the skate season)

- ability to compensate for tight calves /small ankle ROM when the skate is highly inside-edged (this also changes with fitness level during the skate season)

- ability to cant the entire boot for edging feel preference (like massively inside-edged for indoor speed skating or outside-edged with neutral ankles for hockey)

Sidebar: The cuff problem I have with some out-of-the-box RB skates (described above)  is that they've angled the cuff so that balance criterion (b) happens during /dynamic/ balance states like highly edged parallel turns; therefore the frame is too far offset to the little toe side for criterion (b) to happen during /static/ balance states and the ankle is anything /but/ neutral during static balance attempts.     Yes, doing that improves turns and crossovers and double-push in intermediates - but I don't like it, and, I think, neither does anyone else with chewed up ankles or chewed up sides-of-leg

Setup is a bit personal, I like my frames centered in between the 2nd and 3rd toes on the front, and directly in line with the Achilles tendon in back.   This probably indicates a slight pigeon-toed bias in my bare feet.

Thx for explaining all that - sounds like skates with lateral adjustment capability would be a good thing. Of the models mentioned above seems the RB Crossfires are the only ones that have that, and although the RB skates seem to fit my feet well there's the problem with the hard plastic outer shell rubbing the ankle bones.

Is there anything to be done about that other than cutting the frame out, or finding different skates that don't rub? Is it possible to modify/reshape a skate frame to avoid the rub?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 

 

Is there anything to be done about that other than cutting the frame out, or finding different skates that don't rub? Is it possible to modify/reshape a skate frame to avoid the rub?

'k, your terms threw me a bit there - I tend to use the word 'frame' exclusively for the thing that holds the wheels.    

 Carbon boots are -slightly- mouldable using an oven-baking process; the Rollerblade RB 90 and RB 100 can absolutely be punched using ski boot fitter tools (ironically, they're absolute boats for volume even as is).   Mostly you're stuck cutting/trimming accessible plastic and trying to prop up the ankle to a position where the bone isn't as prominent/exposed to rubbing.     Underboot shims,  footbeds, foam pads all can help with that. 

Thanks for the additional info/clarification. The cracked plastic frame on my right skate broke over the weekend, but I'm still able to skate using a powerstrap to hold the cuff at the top. Have tried on a Rollerblade Tempest 90, but it's a little pricey for me right now. I'll keep looking.

In the interim, a little more inspiration. I would venture to bet these guys are skiers!  ;-)

I would be worried about high-siding with those braking skids, but looks like they have it down. Pretty impressive stuff!

That is some impressive inline skating.  I think it will be a bit before I attempt anything like that. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MephitBlue 

That is some impressive inline skating.  I think it will be a bit before I attempt anything like that. 

You should come out, to the Friday night skates or to the Great Skate Race (race against a giant rollerskate) at least. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MephitBlue 

That is some impressive inline skating.  I think it will be a bit before I attempt anything like that. 

Ha, me too. Those guys are like World Cup skaters, and I'm just getting off the bunny hill. ;-)

Still, love to watch - definitely makes me want to go out and get better!

This guy is pretty damn inspiring as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch 

 

You should come out, to the Friday night skates or to the Great Skate Race (race against a giant rollerskate) at least. 

Where can I find some information on those?  Is the Friday night skates the beginner street skate held in DC by WAR?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MephitBlue 

 

Where can I find some information on those?  Is the Friday night skates the beginner street skate held in DC by WAR?

Yes.   http://www.skatedc.org/   WAR also is on facebook now.  The Great Skate Race is here http://www.facebook.com/events/322344434526791/ 

And if the right people show up, FNS  can have a  non beginner option. 

OK, time for me to jump into this thread.

PJ, comment on the soft boots versus legacy hard boots for 1) distance racing 2) easier street-type tricks (i.e. stairs, cones, curbs, uneven surfaces, freestyle-type moves, etc.)

I can give you the answer for roller hockey.
 

Do they even make hard boots anymore? What sort of brake options are standard nowadays?

I haven't been on anything but hockey skates for 10+ years. Did have fun on the TRS Lightning's back in early/mid 90's, but obviously not the best distance skate.

Whatever happened to Rollerblading? Well… Here’s the Story

Rollerblading was originally known as aggressive inline skating. This documentary contains a short history of the inline skate, the rollerskate and the skateboard. It also covers the use of the inline skate as a training tool and the boom of companies like Senate. For the rest the documentary is a compilation of a lot of skating footage and chronicles skating from the time it became popular in the nineties to around 2005.

If that wasn't enough, here's the final scene of the 90s movie Airborne!

Chinese downhill!! And yes, that is a young Jack Black!  ;-)

http://www.skinet.com/warrenmiller/athletes/little-guy-big-tricks

What have you been up to this summer?

I just got back from skiing at Mt. Hood and in Canada. I was at Camp Of Champions in Whistler. It’s the coolest summer camp around. But I’m not doing anymore skiing this summer. I hate waiting for the next season. I just want the snow to come.

What do you do when you’re not skiing?

I have a pair of inline skates so I like to go to the skate park with my friends and do tricks. It really helps my skiing too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 

The cracked plastic frame on my right skate broke over the weekend, but I'm still able to skate using a powerstrap to hold the cuff at the top.

After my frame broke I contacted Rollerblade, and with just a few emails back and forth I connected with a Manager who approved a replacement pair of skates, (even with me admitting I'd trimmed the frame because it was cutting into my ankle bone), so for just the cost to ship my old skates back I got a new pair! Pretty good customer service - kudos to Rollerblade!  

The new skates are also Spiritblade XT's - newer model year, but pretty much the same. Not high end, but not junk, and sufficent for me at this stage. The frame on these also cuts in to my ankle bone, but rather than trim it and potentially shorten the skate's lifespan I decided to just try padding till it was no longer unfortable. Was able to do that, and a nice by product is that I am now able to glide/skate on one skate much better. I tend to pronate heavily, and I guess that thick padding between the frame and soft boot around the inside ankle bone is propping me up in a good way. Haven't perceived any negatives.

I've also become acutely aware just as with ski boots how important a snug fit is with skates. Typically when I skate (just as with skiing) I start with the boots a bit loose, and then skate around easy for a few minutes to warm up and settle in. Then I'll retie the laces as tight as I can get them, and also tighten the instep and top cuff straps. When I skate after that there's an amazing difference in the feel - very tied in, much better control and efficiency all around.

Not surprising, conceptually, ( maybe even a "Duh!" ;-), but very interesting to feel it in so pronounced a manner.

To me it just underscores how important fit and alignment are. Ski boots had started feeling sloppy end of last season, and I felt like maybe I could get on the inside edges a little easier, so they need to be assessed/tweaked (possibly replaced), and I hope to get that squared away this fall working with a boot fitter.

Thinking snow, skating till then!  ;-)

Glad it's working for you.      Gliding on one skate is good.      

I see two potential downsides - rubbing type friction at the medial ankle bone and smashed-down type pressure ache on the 6th toe side.    If you're using decent socks chances are you won't be feeling much of either of those until you get to skating 15-20 mile distances.

Is there now a large gap between the lateral (outside) side of your shin and the skate boot, or do you cinch down the top of the boot as well?     

Cinching can work  short-term, the potential  downside is that it will limit your access to the outside edges when the skates go wide, wider than hip width.       For things like crazy legs, lunge turns,  high-speed climbing on ~6% grades, wedge braking,  and skating in the rain, I far far prefer to leave the boot top open and thereby be confident of the ability to use the outside edge. 

When you move to a lower-cut skate (not a race boot necessarily, rather a just-over-the-ankle mid-cut), that problem will go away _but_  ankle strength and being able to stack properly on top of it will become paramount.      Expect to spend 4-6 weeks doing ankle drills and hip extension drills  when you move to lower cut skates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 
 

I understand I have a lot of work ahead of me to improve as a skater. But I enjoy the ride, ;-), and for now I'm just trying to get time/miles in to improve my feel and balance and hopefully build a good foundation.

Excellent, good plan.    

If you decide you might do the 2013 Napa marathon, drop me a line and I'll put it on my list.

Will do.

Rollerblade Coyote Promo 1997

Looking through a training book and saw a mention of  "off road skating", and Rollerblade Coyotes.

Few posts here on Epic from years ago, but guess they came and went pretty quickly. Still

seem to have some fans out there, and in the hands, er, on the feet of the guys in the video, well,

pretty amazing. Tree skating?? Ha!  ;-)

If you had a size 11 foot I could send you a pair. 

The problem with Coyotes was the weight and the wheels.     

They weigh 9 lbs each in size 9 (probably more in size 11) - no other  true skate of the time, not even the Roces Big Cat, weighed that much.    The weight puts the Coyotes squarely in Gates skate territory, but  with the horrible disadvantage against the Gates - the Coyote wheels would jam on chip-type gravel.

The one thing Coyotes did right (very right) is devise a ABT-type braking mechanism that worked with 150mm wheels.    The frame that supported that mechanism was the reason for the weight.

The wheels.    Well, they did not roll too well on "normally" skateable surfaces, in fact they were very slow.    The joke was that it would take a good skater  5 weeks of training to be as fast as an 8-minute-mile  runner.       In order to improve their roll, we inflated them beyond 80 psi.     That would, sooner or later, crack the plastic wheel hub.  

Mind you, they were great for grip in the rain.    I could outclimb  any 5-wheel skater so long as the surface was wet and the grade was >4%.

One of the nice things about the Coyote boot was that it was a re-work and beef-up of the TRS Lightning boot, and so it had none of the  "easier turning tweaks" that I vehemently objected to further up the thread.    The Coyote boot therefore became the cult boot to use (with normal frames) for aggro skating, especially for stair jumping (*cough*ask the Philly skaters about this*cough*).     That's one reason there aren't many Coyotes left in the more common sizes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch 

If you had a size 11 foot I could send you a pair.

I do have (more or less) size 11 feet. But los cojones, I'm afraid they're much, much smaller!  ;-)

Seriously, I think those monster skates would be fun to try out, maybe some mildly inclined dirt path or fire road action, but nothing too wild/steep for me at this point - I hope to ski a bit this season. Would also be interesting to see how they feel on very rough pavement, which I find pretty challenging on 78/80mm wheels.

Funny, "off road skating" yields a lot of weird devices on youtube.

Was doing a little road skating and had a bit of an epiphany. Been trying to improve my skating form, and have had an image like the one below in my head I've been trying to emulate...

Getting low/deep into that aggressively countered stance - loading up by coiling and then uncoiling into the move - I think I started to get it yesterday - started to feel it - better power transfer, resulting in a longer more efficient glide, and a very stable feeling on the glide when I hit it right. Although I play tennis and loading/coiling is a very key/natural part of that as it is with a lot of other movements in different sports it hasn't come naturally to me when skating. And it's still not deeply ingrained yet, so I bobble more frequently than I'd like to admit, and lose the groove and have to find it again. And sometimes I still have to think if I'm doing it right, or have I gotten off by 180 degrees?

Anyway, it felt good, felt like I was starting to get on the right track.

As to how this might relate to skiing - undeniably overall fitness and balance, and leg strength and stability benefit from inline skating, and at least some of that has to translate to skiing, as good foundation if nothing else. But I guess road skating more closely correlates to nordic (skate) skiing in terms of movements. I guess if you want to specifically work on things on skates that translate to alpine skiing you need to focus on turn technique during downhill runs.

And as with skiing with skating there are different ways to initiate and make turns. One way is to purposely give a little inside skate tip lead and counter a bit as you move into a parallel turn. In skiing I guess folks would say those things should be by-products of a good turn, not necessarily things to do to make the turn. Comments?

Any other suggestions for movement sequences to mimic alpine turns on downhill skating runs?

( I need to break out the old "Skate To Ski" VHS and watch it again I guess. ;-)

Thanks for the retro memories, I used to have Bauers like ^those^

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 
 I guess if you want to specifically work on things on skates that translate to alpine skiing you need to focus on turn technique during downhill runs.

Not at all.    For example, you can work on things like angulation  and inside-leg steering by drawing a 15-20 foot diameter circle with a piece of chalk  and trying to go around it  fast.    Think you're going fast?    Check your inside skate - is it on its outside edge?     No?    You're A-framing.   Yes?   Go faster.   Is the inside  knee pointing towards the center of the circle?  Yes?   Good.   Go faster.     Lift that inside shoulder UP.    Faster.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch 

 

Not at all.    For example, you can work on things like angulation  and inside-leg steering by drawing a 15-20 foot diameter circle with a piece of chalk  and trying to go around it  fast.    Think you're going fast?    Check your inside skate - is it on its outside edge?     No?    You're A-framing.   Yes?   Go faster.   Is the inside  knee pointing towards the center of the circle?  Yes?   Good.   Go faster.     Lift that inside shoulder UP.    Faster.   

So in essence you have an endless parallel turn, (with crossovers, natch), which if executed properly features matched edges and angulation as appropriate for the speed developed. That the idea?

I got out to skate a bit today, and trying to skate fast in a circle my inside skate was definitely on the outside edge. Need to get some video to get an objective idea of speed, and knee and shoulder position.

I also found a nice straight stretch of moderately sloped, relative smooth pavement in the park that's perfect for laps - blast up the hill as fast as I can, then come down trying to "carve" smooth parallel turns. I am curious about tip lead as part of the turn - is it a bad thing to use it to help lead into the new turn, or should it just happen as a by product of going from the old turn through neutral to the new set of edges? Should a downhill skate turn be focused on crossover/crossunder, (ski, not skate terminology), the same as a ski turn?