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How much movement in my boot is ok

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I am currently in demo mode (right of return) around the house with a Salomon XWave flex 90 (28.5) boot. With the liners out I have 25mm (2.5cm) of room at the back, however as the boots have a dome shape at the front and I’m not sure if my toes should just be touching at the bottom or middle of the boot front.

Would taking the plastic insert out from the bottom of the boot and comparing that against my foot just be just as accurate?

I have read all the forums and it says 10 - 20mm (1-2cm) or two fingers is best, so is 25mm just too much. I am just not sure if it is normal that I can:
· curl my toes under like a claw
· When standing straight I can lift my heal up about 25mm but when flexed it stays in place

I know they will lose some padding but I tried the 27.5 size and they just felt too tight. I really like the boot, especially it’s stiffness but something is just niggling me a little bit about the fit.

If I tighten them right up to compensate it starts to cut of circulation a little bit, the front buckles don’t really clamp down on that part of my foot to get that firm handshake everyone talks about. I also tried a Tecnica Diablo Flame but that was to tight across my lower foot just before the toes.

My lcurrent boots (which are Salomon Force 9 over 13yo, but only 2 seasons) were hurting the arch of my foot after a few runs, custom foot beds.

I live in New Zealand (Ski season has just started hence need to buy boots) so I don't have access to the boot fitters listed here.


post #2 of 16
Your boots are too big. [you might like them better that way, who knows, but you're asking over the internet. From the information you're giving, the answer is: Too Big].

10-20mm = good.

25mm is > 20mm, right? Measurements work the same in the Southern hemisphere, correct?

A 27.5 Salomon X Wave will be 10mm shorter than a 28.5.

25mm - 10mm = 15mm. = Perfect.

return the 28.5 and get the 27.5 it will break in and feel great after 5 ski days.
post #3 of 16
1) Too big
2) Too big
3) All of the above
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Switched to a Salomon Falcon 9

Thanks for confirming my fears, I took the boots back and got re-measured by a different fitter and came out at a size 28. I just wasn’t sure how much 5mm would make, some places say 30mm and some two fingers (depends how thick your fingers are).

I tried on a bunch of different boots (Norida, Tecnica, Dalbello but none of them felt quite right, with some I had the feeling that the buckles were against my shins when I flexed. Retired the Xvave at 27.5 Just nailed my toes to much at the end, crushed everywhere and gave me pins and needles.

Apparently I have a fairly wide foot, not massive wide but wide enough not to fit Tecnica Diablo, also it really hurt my soles. The fitter ended up putting me in a Salomon Falcon 9, which he told me was a lower volume boot. Still a 28.5 but it felt a lot better, like the firm handshake everyone talk about and no pain anywhere, nice and snug. Down side was it was a lot more expensive, about $820 US.

Due to the small market, import costs and number of Ski shops here we do pay a lot more for our gear here.
Will try these around the house before I go to the slopes on the weekend (4.5 hr drive to http://www.mtruapehu.com/winter/ )
Thanks for the advice.
post #5 of 16
i guess you were not listening, 28.5 is still too big, your choice though

there is no difference between 28.5 and 28.0 it is the same shell [in almost every alpine boot on the market except the B tech from atomic] the shell sizes are 26.5, 27.5, 28.5 etc etc

if the boot is the correct size..based on the information you have given so far 27.5 shell sounds about right then it will feel too small, the liners are made short for the shells to prevent wrinkling during storage etc, heat fitting the liner, heating the shell and using some toe caps will stretch the liner out to the size of the shell and give you a perfectly comfortable fit, alternatively wear them for a few days IT WILL EASE!!!!!

sounds like the fitter is spinning you a line, you have a "wide foot apparently" so he has gone for a "lower volume boot" how about a boot a size smaller and the correct volume rather than trying to strangle the foot back in an over sized lower volume boot

30mm???????? sounds like a boot seller rather than a boot fitter

sorry to be harsh, but you came asking for advice and so far 2 very well regarded fitters have given you the same advice and you have ignored it totally

good luck with whatever you do
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

I am not ignoring your advice I am taking it all on board and listening intently--- Please do not take offence as I listened to the boot fitter in the shop, when I am there I don't have enough knowledge to question some of the advice, however I am here because I need your help. I am listening to him then going to you guys to verify what he is saying then going back with your advice to the shop. This is the reason I am posting on the Internet.

I have right of return on the boots, I am only trying out, I will now go back and take the 27.5. I am trying as many pairs and sizes to get it right, this is no rush buy for me.

I went back to the shop prior to reading your post as my gut feeling was they were too big, then read your comments and reposted so I can get a second opinion on the Falcon 9 and not get something that does not suit. (just that I was told that one 28.5 is not the same as another one).

I do know that 25> 20 and there is a difference of 5mm but what my question was, does 5mm make a lot of difference (which in non boot fitter terms doesn’t seem a lot), from your comments it obviously does. I had also read 10 – 30mm or two fingers width, (how thick is the avg finger?) so wanted to clarify (30 bad 15 good, got it the first time).

Its really hard for us non boot fitters to slip into a boot where your toes are rammed right up against the front and feel confident about the purchase. I worked on oil rigs on the North Sea for years and have worn a lot of Steel cap boots, not comfortable, but none as uncomfortable as the 27.5.

The fitter in question has a good reputation around town, so I was trying to take in what he was saying while trying to gauge it against the forums, to ensure it is correct.

Never worked as a boot fitter so I have to rely on the advice given. The more advice the better so I don’t get spun a line.

Thank you for your comments, I value your constructive feedback and help.
post #7 of 16
In fairness, for your taste/perception you may simply be between shell sizes in Salomon.

Is there another brand you can try?

Get some over the counter non-custom footbeds (i.e. Superfeet, Sidas) that you can put in the boots to help with comfort, fit, and foot spread.
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks Jdistefa, good advice

That was one of the things the boot fitter said to me that I was between shell sizes, and hence the total confusion on my part and the reason they explained for giving me a low volume boot, which is obviously wrong from what I am reading here. I did question the rational and still felt something wasn't right when I left the store - hence the post (a lot of this is a gut feeling for me that things are not right)

I am going to go back to the shop today and will continue trying all their boots in the smaller sizes and will ask for the Superfeet as well as using my current custom foot beds. Having been to the only two ski shops in town, if they dont have any that suit I will just get a refund (and as the advice suggest try a boot fitter on the mountain when I go up).

Thanks again
post #9 of 16
sounds like you are uns derstanding the process you must go through, the lack of fitters in the area will always be an issue go back, try on and feel the subtle differences in the models, you do have to take a leap of faith which can be hard to do especially if the level of expertise in the stores is in any way limited

good luck
post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thankyou all very much for all the advice, I have learned so much from the process thanks to you guys.

Back to skiing after 13 years, so it has been a while since I had to go through this but im getting it -think I can now go in with confidence and tell the difference between a good fit and an over eager sales person.

Been back to the shop about 8 times now, bet they can't wait to get rid of me, Im sure it wasn't this difficult when I lived in the UK.

Thanks again.
post #11 of 16
Just to reiterate what has been said. The original boots were too large and it sounds as if you belong in 27 shell. That said there are differences between boots that at times but rarely require up and down sizing.

There is a lot written in this column about shell fit and its importance. You should read it before you go any further. Length is certainly not the only factor to look at.

post #12 of 16
I have customers from the U.K. and it is just as difficult there, not to worry. As a matter of fact just as difficult everywhere. If those guys aren't getting you good info try somewhere else. Eight times may be a lot, but shouldn't be necessary if they are giving good info.

post #13 of 16
We can give more help if you tell us more about your foot shape and size. Custom footbeds aren't automatically required just because you have arch pain. Many of the boots you've listed are high volume boots, it is possible the pain you are feeling is due to over buckling boots to get them tight.

Do not decide about tighness and overall fit with liner in. Do proper shell fit to make decision.

post #14 of 16
maybe G went to a good shop in the UK, maybe he just got lucky
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the offer, I managed to get a loan of a pair of the Salomon xwaves in a 27.5, tried them on at home all night strapped into my ski’s and they still felt tight, toe jammed, tried them on the slopes for a day and they were great, toes fine and no pain!!! the difference on the slope with the pitch etc is amazing.

So I will use that as the bench mark of length and how it should feel, just need to ensure volume and other aspects are okay.

I am off to another place tomorrow who has a visiting boot fitter, I have more of an idea now on the importance on length, volume and width. I have talked with this new boot fitter and he has made comment on different aspects of my feet and hasn’t given the hard sell. I have asked him some questions from the forum and he has reiterated comments from here so I feel confident. They also have a full refund policy so theres no risk.

Initially all I had was the theory of what it should feel like, but when in the shop I wasn’t sure how to tell what was ski boot comfy and what was just plain wrong, at what point is it just too tight, by how much will it give and what can be fixed by heating, molding etc. This is the part when you can be guided in the wrong direction. I will always remember to big, to big, to big.

Thanks for the guidance on the boot journey
post #16 of 16
If you end up needing a bit more toe room in a 27.5 the shell can be ground at the toe area to offer noticably more room for the pigglies.

Also, sometimes a person who measures a 10 for foot length on a brannick device, may measure an 11 for arch length. This person may be better fit in the larger shell which better matches the arch length and places the met heads (forefoot knuckles) in the widest part of the boot. This is where it helps us boot fitters to see the whole picture.

realize if you choose to go with the snugger initial fit and it is still too tight after break in, there are many things the boot fitter can do to offer more room in the boot.
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