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Rise Againest the elistist hippies!! - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
You really are a "Monkey Wrencher" aren't you .

It's the same thing up here, there are a lot more MTBer's working on the trails than horse people. If everyone used a little ettiquete & common sense, I think we could all get along better.

JF
I say just start putting in 3-4 foot high log piles everywhere. If you put enough in only hikers and bikers will be able to use the trail. also make them numerous enough that the retailation from the horse people of ripping them out will only make a dent in your guys work. Plus the log piles make the trail more fun to ride anyways! and another side effect is it slows the bikers down so we dont scare hikers.

Literally in pittsburgh there would be dozens of log crossing/piles per mile unless your horse was a jumping horse good luck.
post #32 of 50
These are things that perhaps you should write about with a bit more annonymity.

(but I like it).
JF
post #33 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post
These are things that perhaps you should write about with a bit more annonymity.

(but I like it).
JF
I could care less, also it not like these are booby traps or anything the horse people can clearly see them. but most are way to lazy to get of and do anything
post #34 of 50
The problem I see is they'll just go around it, & create more problems. I could go on & on, but I think we should bring PETA in on this horse issue. I think it's PETA? Are they the animal rights activists?
JF
post #35 of 50
I think it's "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" & I hear they like to take their clothes off sometimes! Anyone know Pamela Anderson?

JF
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I say just start putting in 3-4 foot high log piles everywhere. If you put enough in only hikers and bikers will be able to use the trail.

It's thing like this that alienate MTB'ers to the horse lobby. If you ever want to get MTB's into Wilderness Area's, you need to work with them!
I would much rather ride a trail that has an occasional road apple, than not have a trail to ride at all!
post #37 of 50
Road apple ? Make that a huge pile of s**t . Call it what it is. An apple on a plate in your living room is nice . A huge pile of s**t on that same table would be disgusting
Does that help you understand how some might feel when they get to navigate them in the dark or on a narrow trail ?
post #38 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post
It's thing like this that alienate MTB'ers to the horse lobby. If you ever want to get MTB's into Wilderness Area's, you need to work with them!
I would much rather ride a trail that has an occasional road apple, than not have a trail to ride at all!
I dont want the horses on trails that were built by MTBers, if you guys want to make your trail unrideable some way go for it you made your trail and if it totally unenjoyable on a bike and or impossiable to ride I will stay away. Its my guess that anything a horse can do a Iron Horse can do better.

Thats the way we did it in Pennsylvania its make for really fun trails, and like I said horses dont want to ride them. it shouldt be noted that in pa there is no plans for any wilderness at any of the riding areas. they are state/county parks and have given the greenlight to the bikers(the largest and most active usergroup) to build WHATEVER we want.

As for wilderness, I ride 2 trails a couple times a month that are in the Lone Peak wilderness areas oh the stare down I get from the horse people on what is underused trail going Hammorong Canyon in Alpine, Ut. The trail is not marker wilderness(it is though clearly if you have a map) and would be unrideable to most people do to the rock gardens.

There is no policing going on, because the FS has overstretched itself too much already. and just because it illegal doesnt make it wrong, it doesnt hurt anyone, it doesnt hurt anything. The trail is already there I am going to ride it.

best thing about riding a bike in a Wilderness area? there is noone around!!



and no that grass was just short from the snow that just cleared its not cut, and the trail is buff greatness with techie rock gardens thrown in.
post #39 of 50
Thread Starter 
Building trails like this is what MTBer should be pursueing.

http://www.spokejunkies.com/images/video/bradys.wmv

horse proof and tons more fun for us!!
post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
...and just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong, it doesnt hurt anyone, it doesnt hurt anything. The trail is already there I am going to ride it.
...errr, actually in pretty much anyones eyes illegal=wrong. It's almost like saying: "I can handle my alcohol, I won't hurt anyone if I drive with just a little buzz." You won't win any argument using this type of logic.

I want bikes to be allowed in Wilderness Areas or I want less new Wilderness Areas, but I don't think Civil Disobedience is going to do any good what so ever in this instance. The rules are the rules, work to change them if you don't agree. Ignoring them just fuels the opposition's argument, you're making their case for them. Please stop.
post #41 of 50
I ATV...I've dealt with crap like this before. It's maddening. "Discriminatory Recreation" is what I call it. "I don't like your form of outdoor enjoyment...get out.....but I can stay! It's public land!" Uhhhhh?

I don't want to get into what's allegedly good or bad for the environment...but I think nature is something to be enjoyed...not something fenced off only to be read about in books.
post #42 of 50
Ummm...where are these Pittsburger trails? Might have to do an....inspection.
post #43 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
...errr, actually in pretty much anyones eyes illegal=wrong. It's almost like saying: "I can handle my alcohol, I won't hurt anyone if I drive with just a little buzz." You won't win any argument using this type of logic.

I want bikes to be allowed in Wilderness Areas or I want less new Wilderness Areas, but I don't think Civil Disobedience is going to do any good what so ever in this instance. The rules are the rules, work to change them if you don't agree. Ignoring them just fuels the opposition's argument, you're making their case for them. Please stop.
How is drinking and driving even similar?

If I drink and drive I am putting others and myself in danger.

If I ride in a wilderness I am putting noone not even myself in danger.

Ignorance is the highest form of dominance by not acknowledging a law that I didnt right, I dont support, and I dont want to follow. Its makes it a meaningless law since it cant be enforced

Honestly large scale organized rides in wilderness areas would do alot more good than the route biker have been trying to go. If everyone just start ignoring the law it will eventually become changed, that my fellow biker is democrocy in action, in the purest sense.

illegal doesnt equal wrong

its illegal for people under 21 in this country to have a drink. I guess every other country is wrong because they allow people under 21 to drink. I mean its illegal in this country so they must be doing wrong over there.

Its illegal to smoke pot in this country. other places its very much legal. I myself dont need anything like that but if someone wants to smoke pot who the **** cares? our goverment shouldnt care about something so frivilous instead focus on much bigger problems.

the world is shades of gray you should understand that.
post #44 of 50
Well, here goes:

I, a MTBer, hiker, runner, and occasional horseback rider of Western trails, respectfully disagree with my esteemed biker-Bears.

I like wilderness free of mountain bikes.

And it has nothing to do with who or what does more damage to trails. Instead, it has to do with esthetics (oh brother, you're saying, an effete "neo-hippie" talking about beauty). Well, maybe.

Actually, I just like my wilderness trails slow. I like knowing that as I round the bend of that meadow, I'll see lupine, or a moose, or a fellow hiker or horseman, moving at that same pace as the rest of the natural world around me. Even a runner being chased by a grizzly is in keeping with the natural pace of wilderness life. Mountain bikes are not as slow, and if they're being piloted downhill, they're dang fast. Esthetically, for me, they just don't fit in with the "wild" part of wilderness.

It seems that out here in the West at least, there are plenty of open-access trails for MTB enthusiasts without having to travel into designated wilderness, National Parks, or wilderness study areas.

Flame away!
post #45 of 50
Please explain to me why it is perfectly acceptable for me to ride a horse with other horses hauling 'supplies' into a wilderness area, use a 30-06 rifle with high powered scope to kill the wildlife, set-up a camp, cook said kill... but I can't ride a bike.

Explain how that makes sense and I promise I'll shut up.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be horses, I'm not saying there shouldn't be hunting, I'm not saying Wilderness shouldn't be closed to ALL human use...

I'm asking how a bicycle is more of a danger than a rifle and professional outfitter?
post #46 of 50
I really don't mind if Wilderness areas are permanently set aside for nothing but bird watching.

I care about the continued addition of NEW Wilderness areas, areas that are being paid for with my taxes, for use by a very elitist group of selfish individuals. People who want Wilderness to fit their personal vision of it, not what is 'good' for nature, they want what is good for their personal sense of aesthetics. That is BS.

(I'm not targeting your comments Bill E)
post #47 of 50
Bill E.,
I respect your point of view, I just hope there are not too many that feel the same way as you. It does not make sense to me that bikes don't have equal access to areas that horses & hikers are allowed.

In my perfect world there would be no snowboards, jet skis, wakeboards, snowmobiles, horseback riders, ATV's, trucks, cadillacs, rude people & probably a bunch of other things that I can't think of or say right now. The problem is it's not my "perfect world", & I have good friends that enjoy all of the things that I've listed. I don't want to infringe on their right to do those things, anymore than I want them to keep me from riding my bike where & when I want.

Thanks,

JF
post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Emmett View Post
I like wilderness free of mountain bikes.
Bill, My experiences in cache valley (limited as they are in Mt Naomi and Wellsville WAs) are that for the most part the trails are not in good shape for MTB use and would not be ridden to any apprecialble extent. There are few WA trails that Ihave hiked where I really wished I was on a MTB instead. Also, there are so few MTBers in Cache valley as it is that when ever I go off the beaten path up logan canyon I see maybe two othe mtbs in an alday trail ride. Much less than any other group (hikers, horses, motos or ATVs). We shoudl do a ride some time if you are up for it.
post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
How is drinking and driving even similar?

If I drink and drive I am putting others and myself in danger.

If I ride in a wilderness I am putting noone not even myself in danger.

Ignorance is the highest form of dominance by not acknowledging a law that I didnt right, I dont support, and I dont want to follow. Its makes it a meaningless law since it cant be enforced

Honestly large scale organized rides in wilderness areas would do alot more good than the route biker have been trying to go. If everyone just start ignoring the law it will eventually become changed, that my fellow biker is democrocy in action, in the purest sense.

illegal doesnt equal wrong

its illegal for people under 21 in this country to have a drink. I guess every other country is wrong because they allow people under 21 to drink. I mean its illegal in this country so they must be doing wrong over there.

Its illegal to smoke pot in this country. other places its very much legal. I myself dont need anything like that but if someone wants to smoke pot who the **** cares? our goverment shouldnt care about something so frivilous instead focus on much bigger problems.

the world is shades of gray you should understand that.
BW,

If it isn't marked with as wilderness (or no bikes) then is it really off limits? Maybe you should ask the ranger district to be sure you are ahem, not breaking the rules. Eitherway, I am pretty sure posting about (un)legal stuff you did online is not a good idea. Srsly.
post #50 of 50
I read somewhere that 90% of Americans will be overweight or obeese in 20 years. I don't see how limiting outdoor recreation for any activity or group is considered a good idea. At best it is a necessary evil. I am totally suport for for more trail heads, more scenic roads, more jeep trails, more ATV and MOTO trails. We need 1,000% more free ride MTB trails and 1,000% increase in the ammount of maintained single track in this country, 10,000% increase in the milage of commuter bike paths and side walks.
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